Anyone not aggravated by this?
Criticism of Israel cannot automatically be perceived as Antisemitism, for sure. Endlessly pursuing that angle will ultimately end up hurting Israel itself.
But how can one not support basic (historical) Zionisism after this?
Gotta add that the local authorities seem to have handled this well.
[quote]Carl_ wrote:
Anyone not aggravated by this?
Criticism of Israel cannot automatically be perceived as Antisemitism, for sure. Endlessly pursuing that angle will ultimately end up hurting Israel itself.
But how can one not support basic (historical) Zionisism after this?[/quote]
its offcourse bad to stone anybody.
but it doesnt make a good argument for a nationalistic ideology like zionisme.
its the same as saying that we should support muslim terrorists because israel killed some civilians
in palestina or libanon.
[quote]florelius wrote:
[quote]Carl_ wrote:
Anyone not aggravated by this?
Criticism of Israel cannot automatically be perceived as Antisemitism, for sure. Endlessly pursuing that angle will ultimately end up hurting Israel itself.
But how can one not support basic (historical) Zionisism after this?[/quote]
its offcourse bad to stone anybody.
but it doesnt make a good argument for a nationalistic ideology like zionisme.
its the same as saying that we should support muslim terrorists because israel killed some civilians
in palestina or libanon.[/quote]
But that is precisely what many do.
[quote]Stronghold wrote:
[quote]florelius wrote:
[quote]Carl_ wrote:
Anyone not aggravated by this?
Criticism of Israel cannot automatically be perceived as Antisemitism, for sure. Endlessly pursuing that angle will ultimately end up hurting Israel itself.
But how can one not support basic (historical) Zionisism after this?[/quote]
its offcourse bad to stone anybody.
but it doesnt make a good argument for a nationalistic ideology like zionisme.
its the same as saying that we should support muslim terrorists because israel killed some civilians
in palestina or libanon.[/quote]
But that is precisely what many do.[/quote]
what is it that many does?
support killing of muslims because some muslims kill others?
support killing of jew because some jews kills others?
all of the above?
either way, its an failed logic. and even if many think like that, I am not going to. I guess you are with me on this on.
[quote]florelius wrote:
[quote]Carl_ wrote:
Anyone not aggravated by this?
Criticism of Israel cannot automatically be perceived as Antisemitism, for sure. Endlessly pursuing that angle will ultimately end up hurting Israel itself.
But how can one not support basic (historical) Zionisism after this?[/quote]
its offcourse bad to stone anybody.
but it doesnt make a good argument for a nationalistic ideology like zionisme.
its the same as saying that we should support muslim terrorists because israel killed some civilians
in palestina or libanon.[/quote]
Plenty of reasons to be critical of Israel.
I’ll readily concede that our US friends seem to be somewhat “vision impaired” in that respect, as they don’t seem to want to see the actual suffering of the Palestinians.
At same time, though, most Europeans seem to be incredibly ignorant as far as how the Egytians, Jordanians and other Arab nations are concerned, are more than a “little” culpbable re: the present “stand-off”.
Hamas may or may not be a “consequence” - but they are still Hamas…
Please tell me how I should get behind Hamas…?
[quote]Carl_ wrote:
[quote]florelius wrote:
[quote]Carl_ wrote:
Anyone not aggravated by this?
Criticism of Israel cannot automatically be perceived as Antisemitism, for sure. Endlessly pursuing that angle will ultimately end up hurting Israel itself.
But how can one not support basic (historical) Zionisism after this?[/quote]
its offcourse bad to stone anybody.
but it doesnt make a good argument for a nationalistic ideology like zionisme.
its the same as saying that we should support muslim terrorists because israel killed some civilians
in palestina or libanon.[/quote]
Plenty of reasons to be critical of Israel.
I’ll readily concede that our US friends seem to be somewhat “vision impaired” in that respect, as they don’t seem to want to see the actual suffering of the Palestinians.
At same time, though, most Europeans seem to be incredibly ignorant as far as how the Egytians, Jordanians and other Arab nations are concerned, are more than a “little” culpbable re: the present “stand-off”.
Hamas may or may not be a “consequence” - but they are still Hamas…
Please tell me how I should get behind Hamas…?
[/quote]
I dont now how you could read from my post that I am critical of israel.
I respect israels right to exist. on the same side I respect palestinians right exist. and offcourse want to see peace between israel and palestina and the other arab nations in the region. but I am frankly pessimistic about this, it does not look like its going to be peace in a long time.
oh, I have zero doubt that you support Israel’s right exist. I also would never dream of calling you an anti semite. Seriously 
I’d love you hear your views on Israels’ other neighbours, though.
But, do you not see a “tipping over” point in Europe here, and the world in general, in terms of Israel? After
that blocade hysteria?
Which was comprised of 95% great folks, but, let’s face it, 5% jihadis?
[quote]Carl_ wrote:
oh, I have zero doubt that you support Israel’s right exist. I also would never dream of calling you an anti semite. Seriously
I’d love you hear your views on Israels’ other neighbours, though.
But, do you not see a “tipping over” point in Europe here, and the world in general, in terms of Israel? After
that blocade hysteria?
Which was comprised of 95% great folks, but, let’s face it, 5% jihadis?[/quote]
to be honest I dont know that much about egypt and jordan etc. so sorry but cant give you wiew on those thats worth listning too.
just to be an nitpicker:P even if I did not support israels right to exist, it would not make me an anti-semite. there are arabs that are against israels right to exist, and they cant be anti-semite, well because arabs are also semites… you wanted to put that out there, because I see some people out there calling arabs anti-semite haha. ps. I am not saying you are saying this. so we are clear on that.
about the blocade: I havent seen any facts about it being terrorists on the boats, so I dont know any thing about that. but on the first convoi that where attacked by the israeli army and where some civillian activists died. there where some norwegian activist on that convoi, one of them being an old socialist lady and I know that she was not an terrorist. any way israel has no right to deny palestina humanitarian aid. palestina`s territories both on land and on sea should be controlled by palestina alone. thats my 2cents about that.
you seem like an ok guy, so I guess you dont disagree completly with what I stated here:)
[quote]pushharder wrote:
…even if in the Norwegian language[/quote]
What difference does the language make?
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]florelius wrote:
…well the conflict of today have nothing to do with the biblical conflict. I tought that was obvious for everyone, even ultra-conservatives like you push.[/quote]
This is why history dunces like you should be bounced off PWI. The historical perspective of a conflict ALWAYS has something to do with the discussion.[/quote]
I dont get your strawman argument here push. even if dont agree with you on that the conflict between
israel and palestina is linked to the conflict between the jews and philistines in the bible. it doesnt
make me think that an historical perspective has nothing to do with an discussion. if you check many of my post in this forum, you see I use an history alot and again I study history, you dont think I use that knowledge I gather at the university in discussions here. nice try but you failed hard:)
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]florelius wrote:
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]florelius wrote:
…well the conflict of today have nothing to do with the biblical conflict. I tought that was obvious for everyone, even ultra-conservatives like you push.[/quote]
This is why history dunces like you should be bounced off PWI. The historical perspective of a conflict ALWAYS has something to do with the discussion.[/quote]
I dont get your strawman argument here push. even if dont agree with you on that the conflict between
israel and palestina is linked to the conflict between the jews and philistines in the bible. it doesnt
make me think that an historical perspective has nothing to do with an discussion. if you check many of my post in this forum, you see I use an history alot and again I study history, you dont think I use that knowledge I gather at the university in discussions here. nice try but you failed hard:)[/quote]
Flowery, there is a thread of conflict that begins way back yonder in the 12th century B.C. If we follow that thread down through the ages right up until our present time we will gain perspective into current affairs. Not to mention you will impress the chicks.
Now quit jousting with me, in essence saying, “I don’t need to know nuthin much about the past in order to understand the present, Push. I can just limit my knowledge to the past few decades and I’ll do just fine.” That is sheer unadulterated stupidity, my dear fellow.[/quote]
still you are putting words in my mouth. I love history, especially old one, like the one from middle-east with akkad, babylon, assyria, judea, samaria, the chaliphat. but again the are no link between the biblical conflict and the current conflict. a palestinian suicide bomber doenst scream “GOLIATH” before he blows him self up, he screams “insh allha” or something similar. the tension between muslims and jews in palestina, started when north-europeen jews started to settle there in the end of the 1800`s. and it became a a shitfest when UN decleared big parts of the palestinian area israely in 1948. before this misrahim jews and muslim lived side by side in palestina.
[quote]florelius wrote:
[quote]Stronghold wrote:
[quote]florelius wrote:
[quote]Carl_ wrote:
Anyone not aggravated by this?
Criticism of Israel cannot automatically be perceived as Antisemitism, for sure. Endlessly pursuing that angle will ultimately end up hurting Israel itself.
But how can one not support basic (historical) Zionisism after this?[/quote]
its offcourse bad to stone anybody.
but it doesnt make a good argument for a nationalistic ideology like zionisme.
its the same as saying that we should support muslim terrorists because israel killed some civilians
in palestina or libanon.[/quote]
But that is precisely what many do.[/quote]
what is it that many does?
support killing of muslims because some muslims kill others?
support killing of jew because some jews kills others?
all of the above?
either way, its an failed logic. and even if many think like that, I am not going to. I guess you are with me on this on.[/quote]
Support the killing of Jews and the destruction of Israel because they believe that Israel’s self defense against insidious and, in some cases, downright fucking evil neighbor states constitutes war crimes. Maybe this is not so in Europe, but over here we have a fairly large contingent of idiotic, keffiyeh-wearing, rich white college kids screaming for the destruction of Israel and the Jewish race.
[quote]Stronghold wrote:
[quote]florelius wrote:
[quote]Stronghold wrote:
[quote]florelius wrote:
[quote]Carl_ wrote:
Anyone not aggravated by this?
Criticism of Israel cannot automatically be perceived as Antisemitism, for sure. Endlessly pursuing that angle will ultimately end up hurting Israel itself.
But how can one not support basic (historical) Zionisism after this?[/quote]
its offcourse bad to stone anybody.
but it doesnt make a good argument for a nationalistic ideology like zionisme.
its the same as saying that we should support muslim terrorists because israel killed some civilians
in palestina or libanon.[/quote]
But that is precisely what many do.[/quote]
what is it that many does?
support killing of muslims because some muslims kill others?
support killing of jew because some jews kills others?
all of the above?
either way, its an failed logic. and even if many think like that, I am not going to. I guess you are with me on this on.[/quote]
Support the killing of Jews and the destruction of Israel because they believe that Israel’s self defense against insidious and, in some cases, downright fucking evil neighbor states constitutes war crimes. Maybe this is not so in Europe, but over here we have a fairly large contingent of idiotic, keffiyeh-wearing, rich white college kids screaming for the destruction of Israel and the Jewish race.
those people are racist. there are racist jew haters over hear to, but luckily the are few here in norway, so I have not met one face to face. but sadly is alot of racist muslim haters and old-fashioned negroe haters here, they are so many that I have met to many of them. I would say anti-muslims are the biggest problem in my country. If we get a fascist coup over here, its not the jews that are being sent to camps, itt will be muslims, blacks and commies like me.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]florelius wrote:
…the tension between muslims and jews in palestina, started when north-europeen jews started to settle there in the end of the 1800`s. and it became a a shitfest when UN decleared big parts of the palestinian area israely in 1948. before this misrahim jews and muslim lived side by side in palestina. [/quote]
Yes, this would be what is called the current phase of this millenia long struggle.
This conflict is very unique because of its longevity and its many phases. I don’t think any other conflict on the face of the earth can match it. You think it’s irrelevant. I don’t. In addition, I think it’s fascinating.
It’s relevant because one must know that prior to the 1800s - clear back to 1300 B.C. - the Jews inhabited the region AND THUS when the late 1800s rolled around the legitimacy of Jewish claims was considered WHICH THEREBY ushered us into “the current phase” of the conflict.
Why do you struggle so hard to connect these dots?
[/quote]
Ok I admit that I did thougt it trough back there. obviously do both jews and muslims use history to defend the inhumane actions against eachother. so in that sense there are a connection.