Jehovah's Witness Q & A

[quote]honest_lifter wrote:

[quote]forbes wrote:

[quote]honest_lifter wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

Do you believe that Elijah was taken up into heaven as the Bible states, or do you play twisty turny on that one?

2Kings2 “When the Lord was about to take Elijah up to heaven in a whirlwind…”
[/quote]

Really? You still wish to be contentious huh? (Ga 5:19-21) Either way, the answer is very simple, if you are willing to accept it. Jesus said that no one was in heaven before him. That is a statement of fact you keep fighting against for some reason.

So now we have this scripture at 2 Kings 2:11

“As they were walking along and talking together, suddenly a chariot of fire and horses of fire appeared and separated the two of them, and Elijah went up to heaven in a whirlwind.”

and another translation of the same scripture:

“And it came to pass as they went on, and talked, that behold, a chariot of fire and horses of fire; and they parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into the heavens.”

Looks to me like some could say there is a contradiction in the scriptures right? I mean, one says that no one has gone to heaven before Jesus and one says that Elijah went up by whirlwind into “the heavens”. Two things to consider. One is the heavens that they are talking about. Elijah was carried up in a windstorm. A windstorm has physical elements and those same elements would not exist in heaven. The heavens listed here is the same heavens listed in Genesis chapter 1:6-8. The second is that Elijah was still alive and active in Judah as a prophet at least 5 years after this instance. He didn’t die. And as the Bible tells us at 1 Cor 15:50

“I tell you this, brothers: flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.”

flesh cannot inherit the kingdom of God.
[/quote]

Yes, PERISHABLE flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, but Jesus’ body was transformed into an imperishable physical body, just like ours will be when we enter God’s kingdom one day.[/quote]

Not sure where you are getting that from. What do you mean “imperishable” flesh? What does that mean? What is your scriptural basis?[/quote]

I have pragmatic evidence, we have dozens of incorruptible Saints.

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Vonamberg wrote:
i have a question… the law of moses at exodus 20:4-5 says not to worship any idol of heaven earth or sea and 1 cor 10:7 says the same why do christian bow down before the cross?[/quote]

Not all Christians do that it’s mainly a Catholic practice. Brother Chris would be able to answer this better than I, but I think it is merely a tradition rooted in a sign of respect, nothing more.[/quote]

I am not sure what he’s talking about, I have never been instructed to bow down to a cross, or bowed down to a cross and never see anyone bow down to a cross. I think you might be mistaking bowing to the cross and bowing at the altar/tabernacle/Eucharist.

I’ve also seen people bow down IN FRONT of a cross, but were bowing to God, not the cross. The Crucifix is just a 3D picture of our God at the sacrifice, not a God.

[quote]Vonamberg wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Vonamberg wrote:
i have a question… the law of moses at exodus 20:4-5 says not to worship any idol of heaven earth or sea and 1 cor 10:7 says the same why do christian bow down before the cross?[/quote]

Not all Christians do that it’s mainly a Catholic practice. Brother Chris would be able to answer this better than I, but I think it is merely a tradition rooted in a sign of respect, nothing more.[/quote]

Like the pharisees and sadducees there traditions where put before the word of the most high god. All might not bow dow before the cross but you have it in your churchs and homes and around your necks. That is still idolatry.

[/quote]

So is having a picture of your mama in your wallet then.

I know that Jehovah’s Witnesses do not accept anything besides Watchtower material, so I have pulled out my collection of Watchtower material, and I was given a New World Translation by a Jehovah Witness the other day. But, I’ll double check it on http://www.watchtower.org/e/bible/index.htm as it is the official website of the Jehovah’s Witnesses.

I’ll be discussing the Divinity of Christ.

I am not sure how the Jehovah’s Witnesses archive their pamphlets, but I have here a Watchtower booklet dated 15th of Januardy '92.

The name of the article is “What Do the Scriptures Say about the Divinity of Christ?”, it starts on page 20, and on page 21 it says, “But do not JesusÃ?¢?? miracles prove that he was a God-man? No, for Moses, Elijah, Elisha, the apostles Peter and Paul, and others performed miracles without being God-men (Exodus 14:15-31; 1 Kings 18:18-40; 2 Kings 4:17-37; Acts 9:36-42, 19:11-12). Like them, Jesus was a human who performed miracles with God-given power (Luke 11:14-19).”

I’ll take a look at the first passage, Exodus 14:15-31, “15 Jehovah now said to Moses: Why do you keep crying out to me? Speak to the sons of Israel that they should break camp. 16 As for you, lift up your rod and stretch your hand out over the sea and split it apart, that the sons of Israel may go through the midst of the sea on dry land.” Who performed this miracle? Moses or Jehovah?

Let’s go to verse 21, “21 Moses now stretched his hand out over the sea; and Jehovah began making the sea go back by a strong east wind all night long and converting the sea basin into dry ground, and the waters were being split apart.” I ask again, how performed this miracle? Moses or Jehovah?

Lets look at 1 Kings 18:31-35, 31 So E-li’jah took twelve stones, according to the number of the tribes of the sons of Jacob, to whom JehovahÃ?¢??s word had come, saying: Israel is what your name will become.Ã?¢?? 32 And he went on to build the stones into an altar in the name of Jehovah and to make a trench, of about the area sowed with two seah measures of seed, all around the altar. 33 After that he put the pieces of wood in order and cut the young bull in pieces and placed it upon the pieces of wood. He now said: Ã?¢??FILL four large jars with water and pour it upon the burnt offering and upon the pieces of wood.Ã?¢?? 34 Then he said: Ã?¢??Do it again.Ã?¢?? So they did it again. But he said: Ã?¢??Do it a third time.Ã?¢?? So they did it a third time. 35 Thus the water went all around the altar, and the trench also he filled with water. I ask, who did this miracle, Elijah or Jehovah?

Let’s continue to verse 38, “38 At that the fire of Jehovah came falling and went eating up the burnt offering and the pieces of wood and the stones and the dust, and the water that was in the trench it licked up.” So, who did this miracle of burning the bowl, Elijah, or Jehovah?

Okay, well we’ll take a look at 2 Kings 31-32, 31 And GeÃ??Ã?·haÃ??Ã?´zi himself passed along before them and then put the staff upon the boyÃ?¢??s face, but there was no voice nor paying of attention. So he went back to meet him and told him, saying: Ã?¢??The boy did not wake up.Ã?¢?? 32 At last EÃ??Ã?·liÃ??Ã?´sha came into the house, and there the boy was dead, being laid upon his couch. Who is about to do this miracle, Elisha or Jehovah?

Next two verses 33-34, 33 Then he came in and closed the door behind them both and began to pray to Jehovah. 34 Finally he went up and lay down upon the child and put his own mouth upon his mouth and his own eyes upon his eyes and his own palms upon his palms and kept bent over him, and gradually the child�¢??s flesh grew warm. Who is the miracle maker here, Elisha or Jehovah?

We’ll Look at Acts 9:38-40, 38 Now as LydÃ??Ã?´da was near JopÃ??Ã?´pa, when the disciples heard that Peter was in this city they dispatched two men to him to entreat [him]: Ã?¢??Please do not hesitate to come on as far as us.Ã?¢?? 39 At that Peter rose and went with them. And when he arrived, they led him up into the upper chamber; and all the widows presented themselves to him weeping and exhibiting many inner garments and outer garments that DorÃ??Ã?´cas used to make while she was with them. Who did this miracle, Peter or Jehovah?

Look at the next verses, 40 But Peter put everybody outside and, bending his knees, he prayed, and, turning to the body, he said: �¢??Tab�?�´i�?�·tha, rise!�¢?? She opened her eyes and, as she caught sight of Peter, she sat up. So, who did this miracle, Peter or Jehovah?

Acts 19:11-12, 11 And God kept performing extraordinary works of power through the hands of Paul, 12 so that even cloths and aprons were borne from his body to the ailing people, and the diseases left them, and the wicked spirits came out." Who did this miracle, Paul or Jehovah?

So, far if we have read, that our of the previous passages only Jehovah God has power to do miracles, others are involved, but only the power of Jehovah God working through these people do these miracles happen.

Now, let’s look at one of the miracles assigned to Jesus by the Watchtower material that I put up above.

Luke 11:14, 14 Later he [Jesus] was expelling a dumb demon. After the demon came out, the dumb man spoke. And the crowds marveled. Who did this Lord Jesus or Jehovah God?

Now, Jesus did about 44 miracles, we’ll only go through a few of them.

This is my favorite miracle, Jn 2:3-10:

3 When the wine ran short the mother of Jesus said to him: �¢??They have no wine.�¢?? 4 But Jesus said to her: �¢??What have I to do with you, woman? My hour has not yet come.�¢?? 5 His mother said to those ministering: �¢??Whatever he tells YOU, do.�¢?? 6 As it was, there were six stone water jars sitting there as required by the purification rules of the Jews, each able to hold two or three liquid measures. 7 Jesus said to them: �¢??Fill the water jars with water.�¢?? And they filled them to the brim. 8 And he said to them: �¢??Draw some out now and take it to the director of the feast.�¢?? So they took it. 9 When, now, the director of the feast tasted the water that had been turned into wine but did not know what its source was, although those ministering who had drawn out the water knew, the director of the feast called the bridegroom 10 and said to him: �¢??Every other man puts out the fine wine first, and when people are intoxicated, the inferior. You have reserved the fine wine until now.�¢??

Who did this miracle Jesus, Ministers, or Jehovah God?

Next miracle, Jn 4:47-51:

47 When this man heard that Jesus had come out of Ju�?�·de�?�´a into Gal�?�´i�?�·lee, he went off to him and began asking him to come down and heal his son, for he was at the point of dying. 48 However, Jesus said to him: �¢??Unless YOU people see signs and wonders, YOU will by no means believe.�¢?? 49 The attendant of the king said to him: �¢??Lord, come down before my young child dies.�¢?? 50 Jesus said to him: �¢??Go your way; your son lives.�¢?? The man believed the word that Jesus spoke to him and went his way. 51 But already while he was on his way down his slaves met him to say that his boy was living.

Did Jesus or did Jehovah do this Miracle?

Now, the Jesus calming of the seas Matthew 8:23-27

"23 And when he got aboard a boat, his disciples followed him. 24 Now, look! a great agitation arose in the sea, so that the boat was being covered by the waves; he, however, was sleeping. 25 And they came and woke him up, saying: �¢??Lord, save us, we are about to perish!�¢?? 26 But he said to them: �¢??Why are YOU fainthearted, YOU with little faith?�¢?? Then, getting up, he rebuked the winds and the sea, and a great calm set in. 27 So the men became amazed and said: �¢??What sort of person is this, that even the winds and the sea obey him?�¢??

Now who calmed the seas, Jesus or Jehovah?

Now, let’s look at the hemorrhaging woman. This is in all three synoptic Gospels (Matthew, Mark, and Luke) documents this story. So, let’s look at Luke 8:43-46 – “43 And a woman, subject to a flow of blood for twelve years, who had not been able to get a cure from anyone, 44 approached from behind and touched the fringe of his outer garment, and instantly her flow of blood stopped. 45 So Jesus said: Ã?¢??Who was it that touched me?Ã?¢?? When they were all denying it, Peter said: Ã?¢??Instructor, the crowds are hemming you in and closely pressing you.Ã?¢?? 46 Yet Jesus said: Ã?¢??Someone touched me, for I perceived that power went out of me.Ã?¢??”

How as we have seen in the Hebrew and Greek texts, only Jehovah God has the power to perform a miracle. In Luke 8, we see that Jesus has the power to heal within Jesus. Jehovah God being the only one with the power to perform miracles and if Jesus has the power to perform miracles, it would be reasonable to say that Jesus must be the Jehovah God.

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
I know that Jehovah’s Witnesses do not accept anything besides Watchtower material, so I have pulled out my collection of Watchtower material, and I was given a New World Translation by a Jehovah Witness the other day. But, I’ll double check it on http://www.watchtower.org/e/bible/index.htm as it is the official website of the Jehovah’s Witnesses.

I’ll be discussing the Divinity of Christ.

I am not sure how the Jehovah’s Witnesses archive their pamphlets, but I have here a Watchtower booklet dated 15th of Januardy '92.

The name of the article is “What Do the Scriptures Say about the Divinity of Christ?”, it starts on page 20, and on page 21 it says, “But do not JesusÃ??Ã?¢?? miracles prove that he was a God-man? No, for Moses, Elijah, Elisha, the apostles Peter and Paul, and others performed miracles without being God-men (Exodus 14:15-31; 1 Kings 18:18-40; 2 Kings 4:17-37; Acts 9:36-42, 19:11-12). Like them, Jesus was a human who performed miracles with God-given power (Luke 11:14-19).”

I’ll take a look at the first passage, Exodus 14:15-31, “15 Jehovah now said to Moses: Why do you keep crying out to me? Speak to the sons of Israel that they should break camp. 16 As for you, lift up your rod and stretch your hand out over the sea and split it apart, that the sons of Israel may go through the midst of the sea on dry land.” Who performed this miracle? Moses or Jehovah?

Let’s go to verse 21, “21 Moses now stretched his hand out over the sea; and Jehovah began making the sea go back by a strong east wind all night long and converting the sea basin into dry ground, and the waters were being split apart.” I ask again, how performed this miracle? Moses or Jehovah?

Lets look at 1 Kings 18:31-35, 31 So E-li’jah took twelve stones, according to the number of the tribes of the sons of Jacob, to whom JehovahÃ??Ã?¢??s word had come, saying: Israel is what your name will become.Ã??Ã?¢?? 32 And he went on to build the stones into an altar in the name of Jehovah and to make a trench, of about the area sowed with two seah measures of seed, all around the altar. 33 After that he put the pieces of wood in order and cut the young bull in pieces and placed it upon the pieces of wood. He now said: Ã??Ã?¢??FILL four large jars with water and pour it upon the burnt offering and upon the pieces of wood.Ã??Ã?¢?? 34 Then he said: Ã??Ã?¢??Do it again.Ã??Ã?¢?? So they did it again. But he said: Ã??Ã?¢??Do it a third time.Ã??Ã?¢?? So they did it a third time. 35 Thus the water went all around the altar, and the trench also he filled with water. I ask, who did this miracle, Elijah or Jehovah?

Let’s continue to verse 38, “38 At that the fire of Jehovah came falling and went eating up the burnt offering and the pieces of wood and the stones and the dust, and the water that was in the trench it licked up.” So, who did this miracle of burning the bowl, Elijah, or Jehovah?

Okay, well we’ll take a look at 2 Kings 31-32, 31 And GeÃ???Ã??Ã?·haÃ???Ã??Ã?´zi himself passed along before them and then put the staff upon the boyÃ??Ã?¢??s face, but there was no voice nor paying of attention. So he went back to meet him and told him, saying: Ã??Ã?¢??The boy did not wake up.Ã??Ã?¢?? 32 At last EÃ???Ã??Ã?·liÃ???Ã??Ã?´sha came into the house, and there the boy was dead, being laid upon his couch. Who is about to do this miracle, Elisha or Jehovah?

Next two verses 33-34, 33 Then he came in and closed the door behind them both and began to pray to Jehovah. 34 Finally he went up and lay down upon the child and put his own mouth upon his mouth and his own eyes upon his eyes and his own palms upon his palms and kept bent over him, and gradually the child�?�¢??s flesh grew warm. Who is the miracle maker here, Elisha or Jehovah?

We’ll Look at Acts 9:38-40, 38 Now as LydÃ???Ã??Ã?´da was near JopÃ???Ã??Ã?´pa, when the disciples heard that Peter was in this city they dispatched two men to him to entreat [him]: Ã??Ã?¢??Please do not hesitate to come on as far as us.Ã??Ã?¢?? 39 At that Peter rose and went with them. And when he arrived, they led him up into the upper chamber; and all the widows presented themselves to him weeping and exhibiting many inner garments and outer garments that DorÃ???Ã??Ã?´cas used to make while she was with them. Who did this miracle, Peter or Jehovah?

Look at the next verses, 40 But Peter put everybody outside and, bending his knees, he prayed, and, turning to the body, he said: �?�¢??Tab�??�?�´i�??�?�·tha, rise!�?�¢?? She opened her eyes and, as she caught sight of Peter, she sat up. So, who did this miracle, Peter or Jehovah?

Acts 19:11-12, 11 And God kept performing extraordinary works of power through the hands of Paul, 12 so that even cloths and aprons were borne from his body to the ailing people, and the diseases left them, and the wicked spirits came out." Who did this miracle, Paul or Jehovah?

So, far if we have read, that our of the previous passages only Jehovah God has power to do miracles, others are involved, but only the power of Jehovah God working through these people do these miracles happen.

Now, let’s look at one of the miracles assigned to Jesus by the Watchtower material that I put up above.

Luke 11:14, 14 Later he [Jesus] was expelling a dumb demon. After the demon came out, the dumb man spoke. And the crowds marveled. Who did this Lord Jesus or Jehovah God?

Now, Jesus did about 44 miracles, we’ll only go through a few of them.

This is my favorite miracle, Jn 2:3-10:

3 When the wine ran short the mother of Jesus said to him: �?�¢??They have no wine.�?�¢?? 4 But Jesus said to her: �?�¢??What have I to do with you, woman? My hour has not yet come.�?�¢?? 5 His mother said to those ministering: �?�¢??Whatever he tells YOU, do.�?�¢?? 6 As it was, there were six stone water jars sitting there as required by the purification rules of the Jews, each able to hold two or three liquid measures. 7 Jesus said to them: �?�¢??Fill the water jars with water.�?�¢?? And they filled them to the brim. 8 And he said to them: �?�¢??Draw some out now and take it to the director of the feast.�?�¢?? So they took it. 9 When, now, the director of the feast tasted the water that had been turned into wine but did not know what its source was, although those ministering who had drawn out the water knew, the director of the feast called the bridegroom 10 and said to him: �?�¢??Every other man puts out the fine wine first, and when people are intoxicated, the inferior. You have reserved the fine wine until now.�?�¢??

Who did this miracle Jesus, Ministers, or Jehovah God?

Next miracle, Jn 4:47-51:

47 When this man heard that Jesus had come out of Ju�??�?�·de�??�?�´a into Gal�??�?�´i�??�?�·lee, he went off to him and began asking him to come down and heal his son, for he was at the point of dying. 48 However, Jesus said to him: �?�¢??Unless YOU people see signs and wonders, YOU will by no means believe.�?�¢?? 49 The attendant of the king said to him: �?�¢??Lord, come down before my young child dies.�?�¢?? 50 Jesus said to him: �?�¢??Go your way; your son lives.�?�¢?? The man believed the word that Jesus spoke to him and went his way. 51 But already while he was on his way down his slaves met him to say that his boy was living.

Did Jesus or did Jehovah do this Miracle?

Now, the Jesus calming of the seas Matthew 8:23-27

"23 And when he got aboard a boat, his disciples followed him. 24 Now, look! a great agitation arose in the sea, so that the boat was being covered by the waves; he, however, was sleeping. 25 And they came and woke him up, saying: �?�¢??Lord, save us, we are about to perish!�?�¢?? 26 But he said to them: �?�¢??Why are YOU fainthearted, YOU with little faith?�?�¢?? Then, getting up, he rebuked the winds and the sea, and a great calm set in. 27 So the men became amazed and said: �?�¢??What sort of person is this, that even the winds and the sea obey him?�?�¢??

Now who calmed the seas, Jesus or Jehovah?

Now, let’s look at the hemorrhaging woman. This is in all three synoptic Gospels (Matthew, Mark, and Luke) documents this story. So, let’s look at Luke 8:43-46 – “43 And a woman, subject to a flow of blood for twelve years, who had not been able to get a cure from anyone, 44 approached from behind and touched the fringe of his outer garment, and instantly her flow of blood stopped. 45 So Jesus said: Ã??Ã?¢??Who was it that touched me?Ã??Ã?¢?? When they were all denying it, Peter said: Ã??Ã?¢??Instructor, the crowds are hemming you in and closely pressing you.Ã??Ã?¢?? 46 Yet Jesus said: Ã??Ã?¢??Someone touched me, for I perceived that power went out of me.Ã??Ã?¢??”

How as we have seen in the Hebrew and Greek texts, only Jehovah God has the power to perform a miracle. In Luke 8, we see that Jesus has the power to heal within Jesus. Jehovah God being the only one with the power to perform miracles and if Jesus has the power to perform miracles, it would be reasonable to say that Jesus must be the Jehovah God.[/quote]

Acts 10:38

“And you know that God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power. Then Jesus went around doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with him.”

[quote]honest_lifter wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
I know that Jehovah’s Witnesses do not accept anything besides Watchtower material, so I have pulled out my collection of Watchtower material, and I was given a New World Translation by a Jehovah Witness the other day. But, I’ll double check it on http://www.watchtower.org/e/bible/index.htm as it is the official website of the Jehovah’s Witnesses.

I’ll be discussing the Divinity of Christ.

I am not sure how the Jehovah’s Witnesses archive their pamphlets, but I have here a Watchtower booklet dated 15th of Januardy '92.

The name of the article is “What Do the Scriptures Say about the Divinity of Christ?”, it starts on page 20, and on page 21 it says, “But do not JesusÃ???Ã??Ã?¢?? miracles prove that he was a God-man? No, for Moses, Elijah, Elisha, the apostles Peter and Paul, and others performed miracles without being God-men (Exodus 14:15-31; 1 Kings 18:18-40; 2 Kings 4:17-37; Acts 9:36-42, 19:11-12). Like them, Jesus was a human who performed miracles with God-given power (Luke 11:14-19).”

I’ll take a look at the first passage, Exodus 14:15-31, “15 Jehovah now said to Moses: Why do you keep crying out to me? Speak to the sons of Israel that they should break camp. 16 As for you, lift up your rod and stretch your hand out over the sea and split it apart, that the sons of Israel may go through the midst of the sea on dry land.” Who performed this miracle? Moses or Jehovah?

Let’s go to verse 21, “21 Moses now stretched his hand out over the sea; and Jehovah began making the sea go back by a strong east wind all night long and converting the sea basin into dry ground, and the waters were being split apart.” I ask again, how performed this miracle? Moses or Jehovah?

Lets look at 1 Kings 18:31-35, 31 So E-li’jah took twelve stones, according to the number of the tribes of the sons of Jacob, to whom JehovahÃ???Ã??Ã?¢??s word had come, saying: Israel is what your name will become.Ã???Ã??Ã?¢?? 32 And he went on to build the stones into an altar in the name of Jehovah and to make a trench, of about the area sowed with two seah measures of seed, all around the altar. 33 After that he put the pieces of wood in order and cut the young bull in pieces and placed it upon the pieces of wood. He now said: Ã???Ã??Ã?¢??FILL four large jars with water and pour it upon the burnt offering and upon the pieces of wood.Ã???Ã??Ã?¢?? 34 Then he said: Ã???Ã??Ã?¢??Do it again.Ã???Ã??Ã?¢?? So they did it again. But he said: Ã???Ã??Ã?¢??Do it a third time.Ã???Ã??Ã?¢?? So they did it a third time. 35 Thus the water went all around the altar, and the trench also he filled with water. I ask, who did this miracle, Elijah or Jehovah?

Let’s continue to verse 38, “38 At that the fire of Jehovah came falling and went eating up the burnt offering and the pieces of wood and the stones and the dust, and the water that was in the trench it licked up.” So, who did this miracle of burning the bowl, Elijah, or Jehovah?

Okay, well we’ll take a look at 2 Kings 31-32, 31 And GeÃ???Ã???Ã??Ã?·haÃ???Ã???Ã??Ã?´zi himself passed along before them and then put the staff upon the boyÃ???Ã??Ã?¢??s face, but there was no voice nor paying of attention. So he went back to meet him and told him, saying: Ã???Ã??Ã?¢??The boy did not wake up.Ã???Ã??Ã?¢?? 32 At last EÃ???Ã???Ã??Ã?·liÃ???Ã???Ã??Ã?´sha came into the house, and there the boy was dead, being laid upon his couch. Who is about to do this miracle, Elisha or Jehovah?

Next two verses 33-34, 33 Then he came in and closed the door behind them both and began to pray to Jehovah. 34 Finally he went up and lay down upon the child and put his own mouth upon his mouth and his own eyes upon his eyes and his own palms upon his palms and kept bent over him, and gradually the child�??�?�¢??s flesh grew warm. Who is the miracle maker here, Elisha or Jehovah?

We’ll Look at Acts 9:38-40, 38 Now as LydÃ???Ã???Ã??Ã?´da was near JopÃ???Ã???Ã??Ã?´pa, when the disciples heard that Peter was in this city they dispatched two men to him to entreat [him]: Ã???Ã??Ã?¢??Please do not hesitate to come on as far as us.Ã???Ã??Ã?¢?? 39 At that Peter rose and went with them. And when he arrived, they led him up into the upper chamber; and all the widows presented themselves to him weeping and exhibiting many inner garments and outer garments that DorÃ???Ã???Ã??Ã?´cas used to make while she was with them. Who did this miracle, Peter or Jehovah?

Look at the next verses, 40 But Peter put everybody outside and, bending his knees, he prayed, and, turning to the body, he said: �??�?�¢??Tab�??�??�?�´i�??�??�?�·tha, rise!�??�?�¢?? She opened her eyes and, as she caught sight of Peter, she sat up. So, who did this miracle, Peter or Jehovah?

Acts 19:11-12, 11 And God kept performing extraordinary works of power through the hands of Paul, 12 so that even cloths and aprons were borne from his body to the ailing people, and the diseases left them, and the wicked spirits came out." Who did this miracle, Paul or Jehovah?

So, far if we have read, that our of the previous passages only Jehovah God has power to do miracles, others are involved, but only the power of Jehovah God working through these people do these miracles happen.

Now, let’s look at one of the miracles assigned to Jesus by the Watchtower material that I put up above.

Luke 11:14, 14 Later he [Jesus] was expelling a dumb demon. After the demon came out, the dumb man spoke. And the crowds marveled. Who did this Lord Jesus or Jehovah God?

Now, Jesus did about 44 miracles, we’ll only go through a few of them.

This is my favorite miracle, Jn 2:3-10:

3 When the wine ran short the mother of Jesus said to him: �??�?�¢??They have no wine.�??�?�¢?? 4 But Jesus said to her: �??�?�¢??What have I to do with you, woman? My hour has not yet come.�??�?�¢?? 5 His mother said to those ministering: �??�?�¢??Whatever he tells YOU, do.�??�?�¢?? 6 As it was, there were six stone water jars sitting there as required by the purification rules of the Jews, each able to hold two or three liquid measures. 7 Jesus said to them: �??�?�¢??Fill the water jars with water.�??�?�¢?? And they filled them to the brim. 8 And he said to them: �??�?�¢??Draw some out now and take it to the director of the feast.�??�?�¢?? So they took it. 9 When, now, the director of the feast tasted the water that had been turned into wine but did not know what its source was, although those ministering who had drawn out the water knew, the director of the feast called the bridegroom 10 and said to him: �??�?�¢??Every other man puts out the fine wine first, and when people are intoxicated, the inferior. You have reserved the fine wine until now.�??�?�¢??

Who did this miracle Jesus, Ministers, or Jehovah God?

Next miracle, Jn 4:47-51:

47 When this man heard that Jesus had come out of Ju�??�??�?�·de�??�??�?�´a into Gal�??�??�?�´i�??�??�?�·lee, he went off to him and began asking him to come down and heal his son, for he was at the point of dying. 48 However, Jesus said to him: �??�?�¢??Unless YOU people see signs and wonders, YOU will by no means believe.�??�?�¢?? 49 The attendant of the king said to him: �??�?�¢??Lord, come down before my young child dies.�??�?�¢?? 50 Jesus said to him: �??�?�¢??Go your way; your son lives.�??�?�¢?? The man believed the word that Jesus spoke to him and went his way. 51 But already while he was on his way down his slaves met him to say that his boy was living.

Did Jesus or did Jehovah do this Miracle?

Now, the Jesus calming of the seas Matthew 8:23-27

"23 And when he got aboard a boat, his disciples followed him. 24 Now, look! a great agitation arose in the sea, so that the boat was being covered by the waves; he, however, was sleeping. 25 And they came and woke him up, saying: �??�?�¢??Lord, save us, we are about to perish!�??�?�¢?? 26 But he said to them: �??�?�¢??Why are YOU fainthearted, YOU with little faith?�??�?�¢?? Then, getting up, he rebuked the winds and the sea, and a great calm set in. 27 So the men became amazed and said: �??�?�¢??What sort of person is this, that even the winds and the sea obey him?�??�?�¢??

Now who calmed the seas, Jesus or Jehovah?

Now, let’s look at the hemorrhaging woman. This is in all three synoptic Gospels (Matthew, Mark, and Luke) documents this story. So, let’s look at Luke 8:43-46 – “43 And a woman, subject to a flow of blood for twelve years, who had not been able to get a cure from anyone, 44 approached from behind and touched the fringe of his outer garment, and instantly her flow of blood stopped. 45 So Jesus said: Ã???Ã??Ã?¢??Who was it that touched me?Ã???Ã??Ã?¢?? When they were all denying it, Peter said: Ã???Ã??Ã?¢??Instructor, the crowds are hemming you in and closely pressing you.Ã???Ã??Ã?¢?? 46 Yet Jesus said: Ã???Ã??Ã?¢??Someone touched me, for I perceived that power went out of me.Ã???Ã??Ã?¢??”

How as we have seen in the Hebrew and Greek texts, only Jehovah God has the power to perform a miracle. In Luke 8, we see that Jesus has the power to heal within Jesus. Jehovah God being the only one with the power to perform miracles and if Jesus has the power to perform miracles, it would be reasonable to say that Jesus must be the Jehovah God.[/quote]

Acts 10:38

“And you know that God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power. Then Jesus went around doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with him.”

[/quote]

But how did Jesus do all these miracles? It never says that Jehovah did it, or that Jesus prayed to Jehovah and it happened. No, Jesus did it because he is Jehovah God.

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]honest_lifter wrote:

Acts 10:38

“And you know that God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power. Then Jesus went around doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with him.”

[/quote]

But how did Jesus do all these miracles? It never says that Jehovah did it, or that Jesus prayed to Jehovah and it happened. No, Jesus did it because he is Jehovah God.[/quote]

Who does the scripture say gave Jesus the power to perform those miracles?

[quote]honest_lifter wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]honest_lifter wrote:

Acts 10:38

“And you know that God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power. Then Jesus went around doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with him.”

[/quote]

But how did Jesus do all these miracles? It never says that Jehovah did it, or that Jesus prayed to Jehovah and it happened. No, Jesus did it because he is Jehovah God.[/quote]

Who does the scripture say gave Jesus the power to perform those miracles?
[/quote]

God, and so did Elijah, Elisa, and Moses, and the Apostles. However, they still had to call upon God to do it. Jesus never called on Jehovah for his miracles.

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]honest_lifter wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]honest_lifter wrote:

Acts 10:38

“And you know that God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power. Then Jesus went around doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with him.”

[/quote]

But how did Jesus do all these miracles? It never says that Jehovah did it, or that Jesus prayed to Jehovah and it happened. No, Jesus did it because he is Jehovah God.[/quote]

Who does the scripture say gave Jesus the power to perform those miracles?
[/quote]

God, and so did Elijah, Elisa, and Moses, and the Apostles. However, they still had to call upon God to do it. Jesus never called on Jehovah for his miracles.[/quote]

OK. Jesus prayed to Jehovah on many occasions. The scripture makes it clear that Jehovah gave Jesus power to perform these miracles, a fact which you already acknowledged.

[quote]honest_lifter wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]honest_lifter wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]honest_lifter wrote:

Acts 10:38

“And you know that God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power. Then Jesus went around doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with him.”

[/quote]

But how did Jesus do all these miracles? It never says that Jehovah did it, or that Jesus prayed to Jehovah and it happened. No, Jesus did it because he is Jehovah God.[/quote]

Who does the scripture say gave Jesus the power to perform those miracles?
[/quote]

God, and so did Elijah, Elisa, and Moses, and the Apostles. However, they still had to call upon God to do it. Jesus never called on Jehovah for his miracles.[/quote]

OK. Jesus prayed to Jehovah on many occasions. The scripture makes it clear that Jehovah gave Jesus power to perform these miracles, a fact which you already acknowledged.

[/quote]

Yes, Jehovah begot Jesus, he was the second person in the Godhead.

honest_lifter,

Do you read the Watch Tower newsletter regularly?

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]honest_lifter wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]honest_lifter wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]honest_lifter wrote:

Acts 10:38

“And you know that God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power. Then Jesus went around doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with him.”

[/quote]

But how did Jesus do all these miracles? It never says that Jehovah did it, or that Jesus prayed to Jehovah and it happened. No, Jesus did it because he is Jehovah God.[/quote]

Who does the scripture say gave Jesus the power to perform those miracles?
[/quote]

God, and so did Elijah, Elisa, and Moses, and the Apostles. However, they still had to call upon God to do it. Jesus never called on Jehovah for his miracles.[/quote]

OK. Jesus prayed to Jehovah on many occasions. The scripture makes it clear that Jehovah gave Jesus power to perform these miracles, a fact which you already acknowledged.

[/quote]

Yes, Jehovah begot Jesus, he was the second person in the Godhead.

[/quote]

Begot (verb)

  1. (typically of a man, sometimes of a man and a woman) Bring (a child) into existence by the process of reproduction.
  2. Give rise to; bring about.

I mean, it is so obvious, yet you literally are not seeing it. I really amazes me. I feel so blessed.

Luke 10:21

At that same time Jesus was filled with the joy of the Holy Spirit, and he said, "O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, thank you for hiding these things from those who think themselves wise and clever, and for revealing them to the childlike. Yes, Father, it pleased you to do it this way.

[quote]honest_lifter wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]honest_lifter wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]honest_lifter wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]honest_lifter wrote:

Acts 10:38

“And you know that God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power. Then Jesus went around doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with him.”

[/quote]

But how did Jesus do all these miracles? It never says that Jehovah did it, or that Jesus prayed to Jehovah and it happened. No, Jesus did it because he is Jehovah God.[/quote]

Who does the scripture say gave Jesus the power to perform those miracles?
[/quote]

God, and so did Elijah, Elisa, and Moses, and the Apostles. However, they still had to call upon God to do it. Jesus never called on Jehovah for his miracles.[/quote]

OK. Jesus prayed to Jehovah on many occasions. The scripture makes it clear that Jehovah gave Jesus power to perform these miracles, a fact which you already acknowledged.

[/quote]

Yes, Jehovah begot Jesus, he was the second person in the Godhead.

[/quote]

Begot (verb)

  1. (typically of a man, sometimes of a man and a woman) Bring (a child) into existence by the process of reproduction.
  2. Give rise to; bring about.

I mean, it is so obvious, yet you literally are not seeing it. I really amazes me. I feel so blessed.

Luke 10:21

At that same time Jesus was filled with the joy of the Holy Spirit, and he said, "O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, thank you for hiding these things from those who think themselves wise and clever, and for revealing them to the childlike. Yes, Father, it pleased you to do it this way.
[/quote]

Where you’re getting lost is that you have to appreciate the fact that God is three separate yet one at the same time. Naturally you’re going to see each of the three characters of God say something on their own.

Do you read the Watch Tower magazine?

Focus on some of the scripture that I gave earlier where they are declared ONE.

[quote]honest_lifter wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]honest_lifter wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]honest_lifter wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]honest_lifter wrote:

Acts 10:38

“And you know that God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power. Then Jesus went around doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with him.”

[/quote]

But how did Jesus do all these miracles? It never says that Jehovah did it, or that Jesus prayed to Jehovah and it happened. No, Jesus did it because he is Jehovah God.[/quote]

Who does the scripture say gave Jesus the power to perform those miracles?
[/quote]

God, and so did Elijah, Elisa, and Moses, and the Apostles. However, they still had to call upon God to do it. Jesus never called on Jehovah for his miracles.[/quote]

OK. Jesus prayed to Jehovah on many occasions. The scripture makes it clear that Jehovah gave Jesus power to perform these miracles, a fact which you already acknowledged.

[/quote]

Yes, Jehovah begot Jesus, he was the second person in the Godhead.

[/quote]

Begot (verb)

  1. (typically of a man, sometimes of a man and a woman) Bring (a child) into existence by the process of reproduction.
  2. Give rise to; bring about.

I mean, it is so obvious, yet you literally are not seeing it. I really amazes me. I feel so blessed.

Luke 10:21

At that same time Jesus was filled with the joy of the Holy Spirit, and he said, "O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, thank you for hiding these things from those who think themselves wise and clever, and for revealing them to the childlike. Yes, Father, it pleased you to do it this way.
[/quote]

Who thinks they are wise and clever diving into the Hebrew and Greek lexicon…and using non primary meanings to define words in the Bible.

A man begets a child, a dog begets a dog. You can only “beget” something that is the same substance as yourself. A man cannot beget a dog house, he can build a dog house. If Jehovah begot Jesus, Jesus would inherently by the use of the verb “begot”, would be God.

Divinity of Christ, scriptural:

“For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government will be upon his shoulder, and his name will be called â??Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peaceâ??” (Is. 9:6).

“Simon Peter replied, â??You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.â?? And Jesus answered him, â??Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jona! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heavenâ??” (Matt. 16:16-17).

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God” (John 1:1).

"Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am” (John 8:58).

“â??I and the Father are oneâ??” (John 10:30).

“For in him [Christ] the whole fulness of deity dwells bodily” (Col. 2:9).

“In many and various ways God spoke of old to our fathers by the prophets; but in these last days he has spoken to us by a Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world. He reflects the glory of God and bears the very stamp of his nature, upholding the universe by his word of power . . .” (Heb. 1:1-3).

"But of the Son he says, "Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever, the righteous scepter is the scepter of thy kingdom. . . . And, “Thou, Lord, didst found the earth in the beginning, and the heavens are the work of thy hands.” (Heb. 1:8, 10)

Trinity, Scriptural proof:

“Then God said, â??Let us make man in our image, after our likeness . . .â??” (Gen. 1:26).

“Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit” (Matt. 28:19).

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” (John 1:1)

“But Peter said, â??Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and to keep back part of the proceeds of the land? While it remained unsold, did it not remain your own? And after it was sold, was it not at your disposal? How is it that you have contrived this deed in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God.â??” (Acts 5:3-4)

“The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all” (2 Cor. 13:14).

Seriously whatever you guys wish to believe it is fine. It just so happens that the trinity is not a scriptural teaching. You keep reposting these scriptures, but they don’t change anything. I don’t love to argue these basic points. I love to help people understand what the Bible really teaches. Sometimes that can be done with reasoning on the scriptures, other times it is with the Hebrew and Greek, other times we just say our goodbyes and head in our separate directions. This seems to be the later.

Well obviously we are not moving in any progressive direction on Christ, I mean I pointed out that Jesus is God, “I and the Father are one.” Or, “He who has seen me has seen the Father.” Or, “All that the Father has is mine” Or, “On this account, indeed, the Jews began seeking all the more to kill him, because not only was he breaking the Sabbath but he was also calling God his own Father, making himself equal to God.” Or, “who, although he was existing in GodÃ??Ã?¢??s form…that he should be equal to God.” Or, “Simon Peter, a slave and apostle of Jesus Christ, to those who have obtained a faith, held in equal privilege with ours, by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ” Or, “In answer Thomas said to him: ‘My Lord and my God!’”

So, let’s look at some other stuff. I’ll pose the question.

How did you become a Jehovah’s Witness?

I eat donuts in the Alberton’s parking lot on Sunday mornings and am frequently approached by JWs.

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]storey420 wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]storey420 wrote:

If the message that was preached wasn’t “he is the ONLY way and ONLY through him (and our teachings) can you get to salvation”, well that wouldn’t retain too many followers now would it?
Jesus and his teachings should be studied and admired and he deserve praise for sure but more for his life’s work rather than he is magic and the son of God.[/quote]

How can a liar deserve praise?
[/quote]

Jesus is not a liar, men who followed afterwards and wanted to neatly control people now that’s another story. THEY are your liars. Jesus was the example for all of us of what we can be.[/quote]

So the people the Jesus personally chose as his disciples and trusted the most were liars?
[/quote]

I don’t think the direct disciples were although it is of course always possible. I think the liars are more so the men throughout the years that have translated and distributed the teachings and wanted to twist the message to meet their agenda at the time. Remember what you read today is the culmination of what various men (with agendas) have wanted to include. Lots of truths and wisdom in the book though a lotof parts have been omitted.