[quote]Vonamberg wrote:
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]honest_lifter wrote:
Go read the Trinity thread and disprove me there. No one else did. The trinity is not a Bible teaching.[/quote]
I see you don’t understand the Trinity either.
The doctrine of the Trinity can be summed up as follows: Within the one Being that is God, there exist eternally three coequal and coeternal Persons, namely, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. In order to prove this doctrine we must prove the following:
- There is only one God (we agree on this I hope)
- The Father is God (again we agree)
- Jesus is God (you don’t like this at all)
- The Holey Spirit is God (you don’t like this do you?)
- The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are three distinct Persons.
You have a problem with Jesus being God in the above so let’s start there.
Well, there is a great deal of scriptural evidence that Jesus is God. The evidence is comprised not only of specific statements, but also in prophecy fulfillment and his attributes.
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God, and the Word WAS God…No one has ever seen God but God the One and Only who is at the Father’s side, has made him known.
That alone demonstrates that Jesus IS God!
But there are more far more…
John 20:28 Thomas said to him (Jesus Christ) 'My Lord and my God!"
The words of the 24 elders to Jesus Christ in Revelation 4:11 “You are worthy our Lord and God to receive glory and honor and power, for you created all things, and by your will they were created and h ave their being.”
Then there is Acts 20:28 “…Be sheperds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood.”
Whose blood? How could God the father spill his blood?
Titus 2:13 “…the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ.”
God AND savior…
2 Peter 1:1 “…To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours.”
In reality there are far more scriptures verses which proclaim Jesus is God, such as:
Joel 2:32
1 Peter 2:3
Philippians 2:10-11
Isaiah 43:11
Luke 2:11
John 4:42
Acts 13:23
Eph 5:23
Phi 3:20
Tim 1:1
2 Tim 1:10
Tit 1:4
Tit 2:13
Tit 3:6
2 Peter 1:1
John 4:14
Christians know that the Trinity is made up of Father, Son and Holy Spirit. AND that the Bible clearly indicates this.
Welp…I’m going to go do all the things that you are not allowed to do as a JW:
I’m going to go say the Pledge of Allegiance, salute the flag, vote, discuss politics, donate some blood, shop at a salvation army, attend my class reunion, buy a raffle ticket, celebrate Christmas, Easter and many other holidays, And finally accept Jesus Christ as GOD.
This of course is only a small part of a long, long list that JW’s are NOT allowed to do.
Why I wonder? 
[/quote]
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ill start with the holidays and flag salute. Did not Jesus say his disciples would be no part of the world? You have to make a stand like Peter when he said that they had to serve god as ruler than man. You have to be friend with the world or friends with god. Class reunion is a personal chooice, I didnt enjoy HS so I wont be going to mine. christmas easter halloween what does that have to do with god? If you find out where they originated from you wouldnt celebrate them either. Blood… in exodus god said blood was something holy to him and it was not to be ingested. Raffle/lottery is a gamble and instead of relying on god for your needs you look to the god of luck.
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. John 1:1 the word was with god and he was a god not god almighty. So how could he be god if he was with god?
titus 2:13 of the great god and of the salvation of us, christ jesus.
joel 2:32 to about almighty god not jesus
1 peter is about jesus but if you look at the next verse coming to him as to a living stone stone rejected it is true by man but chosen precious by god
john 4:4 talks about healing
2 peter 1:1 righteousness of our god and the savior jesus christ
acts 13:23 from the offspring of this man according to his promise god has brought to isreal a savior jesus
you must have a different bible im using a bible that shows hebrew and greek on one side with word translation and on the side proper english.
Ill ask again so ill get an answer… According to John 1:1 the word{jesus} was with god {almighty} has was he god {almighty}? You cant be with your father and be your father can you?
Jesus also said to his discples before leaving the earth… Im going to my god and your god.
So how could he be god if he was going to him?[/quote]
I hate quoting different segments so I put numbers next to the points I wanted to address and correspondingly answer them below.
- Jesus said not to be taken in by the world. That is true, but he meant do not be consumed by it. Remember, it is also said “Man looks at what is on the outside, but God looks at what in on the inside”. He’s referring to the intentions of man. We celebrate Christmas because it is Christ’s birth, the Son of God, who is in very nature God. Easter we celebrate his resurrection. And so on and so forth. Celebrating these holidays does not mean we worship the holidays themselves or any man made figure associated with it, such as santa.
I can understand abstaining from gambling. I can even understand the abstinence of WILLINGLY consuming blood as a source of food, BUT blood transfusions are a different story because they are used in life saving situations. There is a difference in consuming it for its nourishment and having it infused into your own body to save your life.
- You JW’s seem ta have a hard time understanding the Trinity, and that is why you don’t believe it. WHAT God is made of, and all the power, eternality, glory, and holiness that is part of God’s nature, is shared among three persons, and you know who they are. Jesus is NOT his own Father and did not go to sit at the right hand side of himself. God the Son did these things in conjunction with God the Father.
The Trinity is entirely biblical and we can see hints of it in the new testament. For God said “let US MAKE man in OUR IMAGE”. He cannot be talking to the heavenly courts, because angels had no part in creation, and the angels were not made in God’s image. Now if God the Father said this to someone who is like him in being, then it makes sense.
I don’t understand whats so hard about believing that God can be manifest in three persons? Is it outside of God’s ability?
Jesus, in becoming a man, had to submit himself to God the Father, like any Jew would. In order for Jesus to die a perfect man he HAD to obey the Law, and that included being under submission to the Father. But that doesn’t mean he is any less God. A wife must submit to her husband. But does that mean she is inferior? Is she not still human, sharing the same nature and rights? Submission does not mean inferior. This submission was voluntary.
