Sex Before Marriage a Sin

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
1

Why did God create humans with a sex drive, then, make it a sin to have sex before marriage. I mean, God made sex to be very pleasurable, and made it a basic human drive like eating or drinking water, but then tells us we must wait until marriage to have sex and that we aren’t even supposed to look at an attractive member of the opposite sex and think anything sexual.

Couldn’t God have designed us so that we didn’t have any sex drive until after marriage, and even then, it was only directed towards our spouse? He is omnipotent so he can do anything. And don’t “free will” into this, an omnipotent being could have designed us that way while simultaneously preserving free will.

I mean, in todays society, people typically don’t marry until late 20’s, early 30’s age range and it’s pretty unrealistic to expect anyone to go without sex for over 15 years (assuming 13 years old is the age for the start of puberty) and even more unrealistically, not even have sexual thoughts.

2

God created all animals with a sex drive.

It’s only us social primates who have introduced sexual taboos into our societies.

It’s all about control, we just call it morality.

3

God also created man and woman and told them to not eat of only one tree. We did it anyway.

God telling us that something is wrong is not so he can punish us. It is to protect us.

Kind of like our parents telling us not to touch the stove when it is hot. Not so our parents can not punish us, it is to protect us from getting burned and hurting ourselves.

4

Did God really make it a sin? Who performed Adam and Eve’s wedding ceremony? God allowed (encouraged?) adultery.

5

[quote]dmaddox wrote:
God also created man and woman and told them to not eat of only one tree. We did it anyway.

God telling us that something is wrong is not so he can punish us. It is to protect us.

Kind of like our parents telling us not to touch the stove when it is hot. Not so our parents can not punish us, it is to protect us from getting burned and hurting ourselves. [/quote]

So you put a tree in the middle of the garden, tell them not to eat from it. but, hold on, not only do you tell them not to eat from it, you make the friut of that tree to be very “pleasing to the eyes” and most likely sweet smelling where it would make your mouth water. You don’t make the fruit bitter or stinking, or even ordinary looking, just the opposite.

And then you let a talking snake deceive Adam and Eve into eating the fruit. How did they know what deceit was or disobedience if they had no knowledge of good and evil? And God foreknew all of this.

Regarding sex, let me ask you something. How much physical pleasure do you derive from vacuuming a floor? None, thats what I thought. You only vacuum a floor because it’s a necessary chore, and thats only if you have carpet. Well, if I were an all powerful deity, and I found sex before marriage wrong, and if I wanted to protect my creations for negative consequences of it, I would make it so where sex before marriage is like vacuuming a floor.

The only way anyone would feel physical pleasure from sex is to be married and thats only if you’re having sex with your spouse. What I wouldn’t do is bestow my creation with a powerful, biological urge to have sex, make it extremely pleasurable and then forbid them to do it.

6

If it’s any consolation, God made it so that after marriage, sex seems like a drudgerous chore for a lot of people.

7

[quote]Varqanir wrote:
If it’s any consolation, God made it so that after marriage, sex seems like a drudgerous chore for a lot of people. [/quote]
I haven’t had anyone’s wife complain.

8

But it’s interesting to note that it wasn’t the aquiring of knowledge gained by eating the fruit that was the sin, it was the disobeying a direct order that God was pissed off about. You can have as much knowledge, or as much sex, as you want, and derive as much pleasure as you like, just as long as you do it under the conditions specified.

It’s not about morality, it’s about obedience. Again, control. Free will is fine and good, as long as you choose to do as you’re told.

9

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]Varqanir wrote:
If it’s any consolation, God made it so that after marriage, sex seems like a drudgerous chore for a lot of people. [/quote]
I haven’t had anyone’s wife complain. [/quote]

Ha!

Sex with one’s own spouse, I should have said.

10

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]Varqanir wrote:
If it’s any consolation, God made it so that after marriage, sex seems like a drudgerous chore for a lot of people. [/quote]
I haven’t had anyone’s wife complain. [/quote]

Ha!

Sex with one’s own spouse, I should have said. [/quote]
It’s not much to brag about if you see what they were used to working with.

11

[quote]clip11 wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:
God also created man and woman and told them to not eat of only one tree. We did it anyway.

God telling us that something is wrong is not so he can punish us. It is to protect us.

Kind of like our parents telling us not to touch the stove when it is hot. Not so our parents can not punish us, it is to protect us from getting burned and hurting ourselves. [/quote]

So you put a tree in the middle of the garden, tell them not to eat from it. but, hold on, not only do you tell them not to eat from it, you make the friut of that tree to be very “pleasing to the eyes” and most likely sweet smelling where it would make your mouth water. You don’t make the fruit bitter or stinking, or even ordinary looking, just the opposite.

And then you let a talking snake deceive Adam and Eve into eating the fruit. How did they know what deceit was or disobedience if they had no knowledge of good and evil? And God foreknew all of this.

Regarding sex, let me ask you something. How much physical pleasure do you derive from vacuuming a floor? None, thats what I thought. You only vacuum a floor because it’s a necessary chore, and thats only if you have carpet. Well, if I were an all powerful deity, and I found sex before marriage wrong, and if I wanted to protect my creations for negative consequences of it, I would make it so where sex before marriage is like vacuuming a floor.

The only way anyone would feel physical pleasure from sex is to be married and thats only if you’re having sex with your spouse. What I wouldn’t do is bestow my creation with a powerful, biological urge to have sex, make it extremely pleasurable and then forbid them to do it.[/quote]

So you, as a diety, would prefer robots to worship you. God, as the true diety, only wants people to worship him freely. If you do not like his rules then do not worship him. You have freewill, but there are consequences to every action.

As V said, it was not the act of eating the fruit that was bad, but the disobedience to God telling them not to eat it that was bad.

Sin is bad, but God still loves us even though we sin. Now I am not suggesting we should continue to sin just because we have grace. Yes I know I am sounding like Paul, but his words ring true. We must continue to live our lives as a “living sacrifice.” You know what that means? No, I did not think so. It means that as a living sacrifice we must continue every day to get back on the altar even though we step off of it when we sin. It is a conscious effort to want to follow God.

12

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

But it’s interesting to note that it wasn’t the aquiring of knowledge gained by eating the fruit that was the sin, it was the disobeying a direct order that God was pissed off about. You can have as much knowledge, or as much sex, as you want, and derive as much pleasure as you like, just as long as you do it under the conditions specified.

It’s not about morality, it’s about obedience. Again, control. Free will is fine and good, as long as you choose to do as you’re told. [/quote]

Ok, how would they have known disobedience was bad if they had no knowledge of good and evil? And why would he make the tree in such a way that he knew it would be alluring to them? And why did he allow a talking snake to deceive them into eating this fruit?

I mean, it’d be one thing if he just put the tree there, and made it so it was an ordinary piece of fruit and if he didn’t allow the talking snake to trick them. And then they ate it anyway. It’s like God set them up to fail.

As far as sex goes, why does this deity give humans a sex drive and then forbid the use of it outside of marriage when he has a variety of other options? Being omnipotent and all.

13

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]clip11 wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:
God also created man and woman and told them to not eat of only one tree. We did it anyway.

God telling us that something is wrong is not so he can punish us. It is to protect us.

Kind of like our parents telling us not to touch the stove when it is hot. Not so our parents can not punish us, it is to protect us from getting burned and hurting ourselves. [/quote]

So you put a tree in the middle of the garden, tell them not to eat from it. but, hold on, not only do you tell them not to eat from it, you make the friut of that tree to be very “pleasing to the eyes” and most likely sweet smelling where it would make your mouth water. You don’t make the fruit bitter or stinking, or even ordinary looking, just the opposite.

And then you let a talking snake deceive Adam and Eve into eating the fruit. How did they know what deceit was or disobedience if they had no knowledge of good and evil? And God foreknew all of this.

Regarding sex, let me ask you something. How much physical pleasure do you derive from vacuuming a floor? None, thats what I thought. You only vacuum a floor because it’s a necessary chore, and thats only if you have carpet. Well, if I were an all powerful deity, and I found sex before marriage wrong, and if I wanted to protect my creations for negative consequences of it, I would make it so where sex before marriage is like vacuuming a floor.

The only way anyone would feel physical pleasure from sex is to be married and thats only if you’re having sex with your spouse. What I wouldn’t do is bestow my creation with a powerful, biological urge to have sex, make it extremely pleasurable and then forbid them to do it.[/quote]

So you, as a diety, would prefer robots to worship you. God, as the true diety, only wants people to worship him freely. If you do not like his rules then do not worship him. You have freewill, but there are consequences to every action.

As V said, it was not the act of eating the fruit that was bad, but the disobedience to God telling them not to eat it that was bad.

Sin is bad, but God still loves us even though we sin. Now I am not suggesting we should continue to sin just because we have grace. Yes I know I am sounding like Paul, but his words ring true. We must continue to live our lives as a “living sacrifice.” You know what that means? No, I did not think so. It means that as a living sacrifice we must continue every day to get back on the altar even though we step off of it when we sin. It is a conscious effort to want to follow God.
[/quote]

Where did I say anything about us being robots. I mean, we’re talking about an omnipotent being here. He could have always made a way for us to always “choose” to worship him, yet have free will. But instead, he gives us this “free will” then makes us so where we are inclined to be sinful, thus insuring, that the majority of us will use our free will to sin. Just as he designed us.

Following your argument, he could’ve created us in a righteous state, where we are inclined away from sin, and still gave us free will. Or he could’ve created us in a neutral state and still gave us free will. Sin is his fault since he created us with it when he didn’t have to.

14

Clip, it may be helpful to view the Eden story as a metaphor. Man in his natural state is innocent and free. He knows no shame of nakedness, he interacts harmoniously with other animals, and is not bothered by questions of morality and mortality. Just like all the other animals.

Now he is at an evolutionary crossroads: should he obey his primal nature, and be forever an innocent in the garden, picking fruit from the trees, running around naked, and mating whenever he likes? Or should he break the rules, acquire knowledge, make clothing, build himself a house, and be a human being instead of just another animal?

The story of Eden tells us that he made a choice that put him forever at odds with his created nature, and made it so he could never go back to that innocence again.

The whole “no sex before marriage and then only with your spouse” thing is a man-made rule. If we were living in the Garden still, we’d be fucking all the time, whenever and with whomever, just like our cousins the bonobos.

15

[quote]clip11 wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]clip11 wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:
God also created man and woman and told them to not eat of only one tree. We did it anyway.

God telling us that something is wrong is not so he can punish us. It is to protect us.

Kind of like our parents telling us not to touch the stove when it is hot. Not so our parents can not punish us, it is to protect us from getting burned and hurting ourselves. [/quote]

So you put a tree in the middle of the garden, tell them not to eat from it. but, hold on, not only do you tell them not to eat from it, you make the friut of that tree to be very “pleasing to the eyes” and most likely sweet smelling where it would make your mouth water. You don’t make the fruit bitter or stinking, or even ordinary looking, just the opposite.

And then you let a talking snake deceive Adam and Eve into eating the fruit. How did they know what deceit was or disobedience if they had no knowledge of good and evil? And God foreknew all of this.

Regarding sex, let me ask you something. How much physical pleasure do you derive from vacuuming a floor? None, thats what I thought. You only vacuum a floor because it’s a necessary chore, and thats only if you have carpet. Well, if I were an all powerful deity, and I found sex before marriage wrong, and if I wanted to protect my creations for negative consequences of it, I would make it so where sex before marriage is like vacuuming a floor.

The only way anyone would feel physical pleasure from sex is to be married and thats only if you’re having sex with your spouse. What I wouldn’t do is bestow my creation with a powerful, biological urge to have sex, make it extremely pleasurable and then forbid them to do it.[/quote]

So you, as a diety, would prefer robots to worship you. God, as the true diety, only wants people to worship him freely. If you do not like his rules then do not worship him. You have freewill, but there are consequences to every action.

As V said, it was not the act of eating the fruit that was bad, but the disobedience to God telling them not to eat it that was bad.

Sin is bad, but God still loves us even though we sin. Now I am not suggesting we should continue to sin just because we have grace. Yes I know I am sounding like Paul, but his words ring true. We must continue to live our lives as a “living sacrifice.” You know what that means? No, I did not think so. It means that as a living sacrifice we must continue every day to get back on the altar even though we step off of it when we sin. It is a conscious effort to want to follow God.
[/quote]

Where did I say anything about us being robots. I mean, we’re talking about an omnipotent being here. He could have always made a way for us to always “choose” to worship him, yet have free will. But instead, he gives us this “free will” then makes us so where we are inclined to be sinful, thus insuring, that the majority of us will use our free will to sin. Just as he designed us.

Following your argument, he could’ve created us in a righteous state, where we are inclined away from sin, and still gave us free will. Or he could’ve created us in a neutral state and still gave us free will. Sin is his fault since he created us with it when he didn’t have to.[/quote]

Then we would have developed self-righteousness, and we would not love him or need him. God made us perfectly. We were not inclined to sin. The serpent deceived man and woman. Had the serpent never come around then Adam and Eve might not have sinned, but we will never know now.

The serpent, Devil, Lucifer, Satan, or whatever you want to call him wanted to be God so what did he want to do? Make God’s creation turn against God. Well Satan was able to deceive us to turn against God. Well God loved us so much he made a way for us to get back into fellowship with Him. That is Jesus Christ. We will be sinners until the day of Christ. I am looking forward to that day when I am standing before God, and He will make me perfect again.

16

[quote]Varqanir wrote:
Clip, it may be helpful to view the Eden story as a metaphor. Man in his natural state is innocent and free. He knows no shame of nakedness, he interacts harmoniously with other animals, and is not bothered by questions of morality and mortality. Just like all the other animals.

Now he is at an evolutionary crossroads: should he obey his primal nature, and be forever an innocent in the garden, picking fruit from the trees, running around naked, and mating whenever he likes? Or should he break the rules, acquire knowledge, make clothing, build himself a house, and be a human being instead of just another animal?

The story of Eden tells us that he made a choice that put him a odds with his created nature, and made it so he could never go back to that innocence again.

The whole “no sex before marriage and then only with your spouse” thing is a man-made rule. If we were living in the Garden still, we’d be fucking all the time, whenever and with whomever, just like our cousins the bonobos. [/quote]

What is really going to blow your mind, would we even be here? If Adam and Eve never sinned they would have lived forever as perfectly created beings, so the need to multiply would be gone. So the sex would just be pleasurable forever. Child Birth pains were a consequence of the sin.

17

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]clip11 wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]clip11 wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:
God also created man and woman and told them to not eat of only one tree. We did it anyway.

God telling us that something is wrong is not so he can punish us. It is to protect us.

Kind of like our parents telling us not to touch the stove when it is hot. Not so our parents can not punish us, it is to protect us from getting burned and hurting ourselves. [/quote]

So you put a tree in the middle of the garden, tell them not to eat from it. but, hold on, not only do you tell them not to eat from it, you make the friut of that tree to be very “pleasing to the eyes” and most likely sweet smelling where it would make your mouth water. You don’t make the fruit bitter or stinking, or even ordinary looking, just the opposite.

And then you let a talking snake deceive Adam and Eve into eating the fruit. How did they know what deceit was or disobedience if they had no knowledge of good and evil? And God foreknew all of this.

Regarding sex, let me ask you something. How much physical pleasure do you derive from vacuuming a floor? None, thats what I thought. You only vacuum a floor because it’s a necessary chore, and thats only if you have carpet. Well, if I were an all powerful deity, and I found sex before marriage wrong, and if I wanted to protect my creations for negative consequences of it, I would make it so where sex before marriage is like vacuuming a floor.

The only way anyone would feel physical pleasure from sex is to be married and thats only if you’re having sex with your spouse. What I wouldn’t do is bestow my creation with a powerful, biological urge to have sex, make it extremely pleasurable and then forbid them to do it.[/quote]

So you, as a diety, would prefer robots to worship you. God, as the true diety, only wants people to worship him freely. If you do not like his rules then do not worship him. You have freewill, but there are consequences to every action.

As V said, it was not the act of eating the fruit that was bad, but the disobedience to God telling them not to eat it that was bad.

Sin is bad, but God still loves us even though we sin. Now I am not suggesting we should continue to sin just because we have grace. Yes I know I am sounding like Paul, but his words ring true. We must continue to live our lives as a “living sacrifice.” You know what that means? No, I did not think so. It means that as a living sacrifice we must continue every day to get back on the altar even though we step off of it when we sin. It is a conscious effort to want to follow God.
[/quote]

Where did I say anything about us being robots. I mean, we’re talking about an omnipotent being here. He could have always made a way for us to always “choose” to worship him, yet have free will. But instead, he gives us this “free will” then makes us so where we are inclined to be sinful, thus insuring, that the majority of us will use our free will to sin. Just as he designed us.

Following your argument, he could’ve created us in a righteous state, where we are inclined away from sin, and still gave us free will. Or he could’ve created us in a neutral state and still gave us free will. Sin is his fault since he created us with it when he didn’t have to.[/quote]

Then we would have developed self-righteousness, and we would not love him or need him. God made us perfectly. We were not inclined to sin. The serpent deceived man and woman. Had the serpent never come around then Adam and Eve might not have sinned, but we will never know now.

The serpent, Devil, Lucifer, Satan, or whatever you want to call him wanted to be God so what did he want to do? Make God’s creation turn against God. Well Satan was able to deceive us to turn against God. Well God loved us so much he made a way for us to get back into fellowship with Him. That is Jesus Christ. We will be sinners until the day of Christ. I am looking forward to that day when I am standing before God, and He will make me perfect again.
[/quote]

And then he made us imperfectly be creating everyone with a sin nature. You can’t blame the devil, unless your position is that he creates human beings. The rule that everyone had to be born a sinner because of what adam did is completely arbitrary. Furthermore, why should everyone else be punished for things they didn’t do?

Don’t get me started on the Jesus thing.

18

[quote]clip11 wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]clip11 wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]clip11 wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:
God also created man and woman and told them to not eat of only one tree. We did it anyway.

God telling us that something is wrong is not so he can punish us. It is to protect us.

Kind of like our parents telling us not to touch the stove when it is hot. Not so our parents can not punish us, it is to protect us from getting burned and hurting ourselves. [/quote]

So you put a tree in the middle of the garden, tell them not to eat from it. but, hold on, not only do you tell them not to eat from it, you make the friut of that tree to be very “pleasing to the eyes” and most likely sweet smelling where it would make your mouth water. You don’t make the fruit bitter or stinking, or even ordinary looking, just the opposite.

And then you let a talking snake deceive Adam and Eve into eating the fruit. How did they know what deceit was or disobedience if they had no knowledge of good and evil? And God foreknew all of this.

Regarding sex, let me ask you something. How much physical pleasure do you derive from vacuuming a floor? None, thats what I thought. You only vacuum a floor because it’s a necessary chore, and thats only if you have carpet. Well, if I were an all powerful deity, and I found sex before marriage wrong, and if I wanted to protect my creations for negative consequences of it, I would make it so where sex before marriage is like vacuuming a floor.

The only way anyone would feel physical pleasure from sex is to be married and thats only if you’re having sex with your spouse. What I wouldn’t do is bestow my creation with a powerful, biological urge to have sex, make it extremely pleasurable and then forbid them to do it.[/quote]

So you, as a diety, would prefer robots to worship you. God, as the true diety, only wants people to worship him freely. If you do not like his rules then do not worship him. You have freewill, but there are consequences to every action.

As V said, it was not the act of eating the fruit that was bad, but the disobedience to God telling them not to eat it that was bad.

Sin is bad, but God still loves us even though we sin. Now I am not suggesting we should continue to sin just because we have grace. Yes I know I am sounding like Paul, but his words ring true. We must continue to live our lives as a “living sacrifice.” You know what that means? No, I did not think so. It means that as a living sacrifice we must continue every day to get back on the altar even though we step off of it when we sin. It is a conscious effort to want to follow God.
[/quote]

Where did I say anything about us being robots. I mean, we’re talking about an omnipotent being here. He could have always made a way for us to always “choose” to worship him, yet have free will. But instead, he gives us this “free will” then makes us so where we are inclined to be sinful, thus insuring, that the majority of us will use our free will to sin. Just as he designed us.

Following your argument, he could’ve created us in a righteous state, where we are inclined away from sin, and still gave us free will. Or he could’ve created us in a neutral state and still gave us free will. Sin is his fault since he created us with it when he didn’t have to.[/quote]

Then we would have developed self-righteousness, and we would not love him or need him. God made us perfectly. We were not inclined to sin. The serpent deceived man and woman. Had the serpent never come around then Adam and Eve might not have sinned, but we will never know now.

The serpent, Devil, Lucifer, Satan, or whatever you want to call him wanted to be God so what did he want to do? Make God’s creation turn against God. Well Satan was able to deceive us to turn against God. Well God loved us so much he made a way for us to get back into fellowship with Him. That is Jesus Christ. We will be sinners until the day of Christ. I am looking forward to that day when I am standing before God, and He will make me perfect again.
[/quote]

And then he made us imperfectly be creating everyone with a sin nature. You can’t blame the devil, unless your position is that he creates human beings. The rule that everyone had to be born a sinner because of what adam did is completely arbitrary. Furthermore, why should everyone else be punished for things they didn’t do?

Don’t get me started on the Jesus thing.[/quote]

So now your answer is nanananananana I cant hear you? You asked a question and I answered it. Now you are not going to accept that answer and change the discussion?

Are you wanting to discuss, or are you just wanting to rant on hating God? If you are, that is your right, with free will and all, but I will have to bow out.

I love my God and that includes Jesus, so if you want to discuss that, I am open to question, but if you are wanting to try and hate on God and me for believing in Him then you are barking up the wrong tree.

Your choice. Have a good weekend and God bless.

19

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]Varqanir wrote:
Clip, it may be helpful to view the Eden story as a metaphor. Man in his natural state is innocent and free. He knows no shame of nakedness, he interacts harmoniously with other animals, and is not bothered by questions of morality and mortality. Just like all the other animals.

Now he is at an evolutionary crossroads: should he obey his primal nature, and be forever an innocent in the garden, picking fruit from the trees, running around naked, and mating whenever he likes? Or should he break the rules, acquire knowledge, make clothing, build himself a house, and be a human being instead of just another animal?

The story of Eden tells us that he made a choice that put him a odds with his created nature, and made it so he could never go back to that innocence again.

The whole “no sex before marriage and then only with your spouse” thing is a man-made rule. If we were living in the Garden still, we’d be fucking all the time, whenever and with whomever, just like our cousins the bonobos. [/quote]

What is really going to blow your mind, would we even be here? If Adam and Eve never sinned they would have lived forever as perfectly created beings, so the need to multiply would be gone. So the sex would just be pleasurable forever. Child Birth pains were a consequence of the sin.
[/quote]

It would only blow my mind if I believed that there were literally only ever two people in the “Garden”. Everything about that story can be read metaphorically, even the names of the principal characters.

“Adam” just means “man”. It’s a pun, because edom means red, alluding to the belief that Man was made from the earth, which was red. “Eve” means “breath” or “life”, which I take as an allusion to the fact that only females can be the bearers of new life.

And anyway, even if you read the Adam and Eve parable literally, remember that God told mankind to be fruitful and multiply long before the Tree of Knowledge incident. Before, in fact, any mention of the Garden of Eden or the names Adam and Eve, there was God telling male and female humans to eat fruit, fuck a lot, and make babies. Genesis 1:26 to 29.

20

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]Varqanir wrote:
Clip, it may be helpful to view the Eden story as a metaphor. Man in his natural state is innocent and free. He knows no shame of nakedness, he interacts harmoniously with other animals, and is not bothered by questions of morality and mortality. Just like all the other animals.

Now he is at an evolutionary crossroads: should he obey his primal nature, and be forever an innocent in the garden, picking fruit from the trees, running around naked, and mating whenever he likes? Or should he break the rules, acquire knowledge, make clothing, build himself a house, and be a human being instead of just another animal?

The story of Eden tells us that he made a choice that put him a odds with his created nature, and made it so he could never go back to that innocence again.

The whole “no sex before marriage and then only with your spouse” thing is a man-made rule. If we were living in the Garden still, we’d be fucking all the time, whenever and with whomever, just like our cousins the bonobos. [/quote]

What is really going to blow your mind, would we even be here? If Adam and Eve never sinned they would have lived forever as perfectly created beings, so the need to multiply would be gone. So the sex would just be pleasurable forever. Child Birth pains were a consequence of the sin.
[/quote]

It would only blow my mind if I believed that there were literally only ever two people in the “Garden”. Everything about that story can be read metaphorically, even the names of the principal characters.

“Adam” just means “man”. It’s a pun, because edom means red, alluding to the belief that Man was made from the earth, which was red. “Eve” means “breath” or “life”, which I take as an allusion to the fact that only females can be the bearers of new life.

And anyway, even if you read the Adam and Eve parable literally, remember that God told mankind to be fruitful and multiply long before the Tree of Knowledge incident. Before, in fact, any mention of the Garden of Eden or the names Adam and Eve, there was God telling male and female humans to eat fruit, fuck a lot, and make babies. Genesis 1:26 to 29.

[/quote]

And then the nephalim came and bred with human women to create a race of “giants”. That’s where each culture’s mythologies comes in.