Jehovah's Witness Q & A

[quote]Vonamberg wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Vonamberg wrote:
John 14:29 YOU heard that I said to YOU, I am going away and I am coming [back] to YOU. If YOU loved me, YOU would rejoice that I am going my way to the Father, because the Father is greater than I am.

If there is a trinity how could one be greater then the rest, since there is only one person?

No…you don’t have any right to say anything until you explain the KEEEERAAAAAZYYY rules of your cult, such as:

-All earthly governments are controlled by the devil

-The Holy Spirit is only available to JW

-There is no Hell

-God is unable to be omnipresent or omniscient

-There is no life after death except for 144,000 select members of this cult

-Jesus second coming happened in (LOL) secret in 1914

-Jesus Christ is a created being (like an angel) who one time did not exist

-Salvation can only be earned by being loyal to this one cult

-“The first” resurrection occurred in 1918

The JW cultists are not allowed to do any of the following; serve in the military, buy girl scout cookies, celebrate Christmas or Easter, or even their own birthday. Run for political office, vote, serve on a jury, own or wear a cross, donate blood, or accept a blood donation even in an emergency. salute the flag, be involved in martial arts, boxing or wrestling.

When you can unwind all this crazy crap then I’d be more than happy to read your rants about Christianity. Until then you and your boys are a laughing stock around here.

Soooo…start typing![/quote]

Zeb,I already answered your questions its on page 10.
[/quote]

Not really, you never explained how anyone could be loony enough to fall into such a cult. If someone told you that you were someday going to be a member of an organization that prohibited you from buying girl scout cookies you’d have said they were crazy. Unless of course you got into the cult as a child, in which case I feel sorry for you.

[quote]Vonamberg wrote:
If there is a trinity how could one be greater then the rest, since there is only one person?
[/quote]

Because Jesus in context was talking about the Father’s will being greater than Jesus’ human will.

Uh…try the first time it was written was 70 A.D. 24-27 years after Jesus was dead, the Apostles’ message just rolled off their tongues, the Bible is being written as we speak.

Just read the Bishops who were instructed by the Apostles themselves and their disciples.

Um…The Didache 70 A.D. “Baptize in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost…Our God.” (Didache 7:1 [A.D. 70]).
Ignatius of Antioch: “Jesus Christ our God” (Letter to the Ephesians 1 [A.D. 110]). & “For our God, Jesus Christ…” (ibid., 18:2).
Justin Martyr in First Apology 13:5â??6 [A.D. 151].
Theophilus of Antioch in To Autolycus 2:15 [A.D. 181].
Irenaeus in Against Heresies 1:10:1 [A.D. 189].
Tertullian: the Father and the Son, and in the Holy Spirit…is the Trinity" (Against Praxeas 2 [A.D. 216]).
“For we do not hold that which the heretics imagine: that some part of the being of God was converted into the Son, or that the Son was procreated by the Father from non-existent substances, that is, from a being outside himself, so that there was a time when he [the Son] did not exist” (The Fundamental Doctrines 4:4:1 [A.D. 225]).
Hippolytus trinity in Refutation of All Heresies 10:29 [A.D. 228].
“For Scripture as much announces Christ as also God, as it announces God himself as man. It has as much described Jesus Christ to be man, as moreover it has also described Christ the Lord to be God. Because it does not set forth him to be the Son of God only, but also the son of man; nor does it only say, the son of man, but it has also been accustomed to speak of him as the Son of God. So that being of both, he is both, lest if he should be one only, he could not be the other. For as nature itself has prescribed that he must be believed to be a man who is of man, so the same nature prescribes also that he must be believed to be God who is of God. . . . Let them, therefore, who read that Jesus Christ the son of man is man, read also that this same Jesus is called also God and the Son of God” (Treatise on the Trinity 11 [A.D. 235]).
Pope Dionysius in 262.
Gregory the Wonderworker in 265.

So, we have from 70-265 A.D. of Bishops of the Catholic Church writing about the Trinity. I would post more but I figure you get the picture.

[quote]Vonamberg wrote:

[quote]forbes wrote:

[quote]Vonamberg wrote:
John 14:29 YOU heard that I said to YOU, I am going away and I am coming [back] to YOU. If YOU loved me, YOU would rejoice that I am going my way to the Father, because the Father is greater than I am.

If there is a trinity how could one be greater then the rest, since there is only one person?

Im bowing out now. ZEB, may the Lord be with you.

THE TRINITY IS NOT ONE PERSON! IT IS THREE! THERE ARE OVER 6 BILLION PEOPLE THAT MAKE UP ONE SPECIES (HUMAN). THERE ARE THREE PERSONS THAT MAKE UP ONE GOD! JESUS SUBMITS HIMSELF TO THE FATHER, BUT IT DOESN’T MAKE HIM ANY LESS GOD. YOU SUBMIT YOURSELF TO YOUR BOSS, TO THE PRESIDENT, TO YOUR PROFESSOR ETC…YET YOU ARE NOT ANY LESS HUMAN THAN THEY ARE, NOR ARE THEY ANY MORE HUMAN THAN YOU ARE. JESUS’ SUBMISSION TO THE FATHER WAS BY CHOICE, AND IS NOW FOREVERMORE.

I can no longer explain, and no one here can explain to make you understand. From here on out it is only the Holy Spirit who can convict you now, no one else.

Btw, I wasn’t angry in my all caps writing. I was just emphasizing.

Peace.[/quote]

So tell me how can one be greater? If they are 1 god, they would all be equal - correct?[/quote]

John 14:28 says, “the Father is greater,” The Son is equal to the Father in his divinity but less than the Father in his humanity.

Although no one of the Divine Persons exceeds the others in greatness or glory in the eternal Trinity, there is a relational hierarchy among them, where, unlike the Son and the Spirit, the Father alone possesses divine Paternity and has the distinction of being entirely without origin.

So who was Jesus praying to in the garden of Gethsemane?

Who spoke when Jesus was baptized, who was actually baptized, and who descended in the form of a dove?

It’s obvious to me they’re biblically presented as separate personages, who are one in purpose.

Stated,

" John 14:29 YOU heard that I said to YOU, I am going away and I am coming [back] to YOU. If YOU loved me, YOU would rejoice that I am going my way to the Father, because the Father is greater than I am.

If there is a trinity how could one be greater then the rest, since there is only one person? "

The phrase “my Father is greater than I” does raise the question, as noted above, is the Son inferior to the Father? No, for Philippians 2:6 points out that in His preincarnate existence Jesus “thought it not robbery to be equal with God.” The statement simply means that in the Incarnation, Jesus deliberately subordinated himself. He who had been “in the form of God” took upon himself the “form of a servant” and the “likeness of men” (Phil. 2:6-7). This voluntary humbling did not affect His essential deity.

Zeb[quote]

Not really, you never explained how anyone could be loony enough to fall into such a cult. If someone told you that you were someday going to be a member of an organization that prohibited you from buying girl scout cookies you’d have said they were crazy. Unless of course you got into the cult as a child, in which case I feel sorry for you.[/quote]

Again about the girl scouts… are you getting a kick back or something? Personal choice no one has ever told me not to btw. Sorry to tell you but I was an adult. Since your so curious about me, when did you fall into to your sect?

-All earthly governments are controlled by the devil

Luke 4:5-8 So he brought him up and showed him all the kingdoms of the inhabited earth in an instant of time; 6� and the Devil said to him: â??I will give you all this authority and the glory of them, because it has been delivered to me, and to whomever I wish I give it. 7� You, therefore, if you do an act of worship before me, it will all be yours.â?? 8� In reply Jesus said to him: â??It is written, â??It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service

Matthew 4:8-11 Again the Devil took him along to an unusually high mountain, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory, 9� and he said to him: â??All these things I will give you if you fall down and do an act of worship to me.â?? 10� Then Jesus said to him: â??Go away, Satan! For it is written, â??It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.â??â?? 11� Then the Devil left him, and, look! angels came and began to minister to him.

Revelation 2:12-13 â??And to the angel of the congregation in Perâ?²gaâ?§mum write: These are the things that he says who has the sharp, long two-edged sword, 13� â??I know where you are dwelling, that is, where the throne of Satan is; and yet you keep on holding fast my name, and you did not deny your faith in me even in the days of Anâ?²tiâ?§pas, my witness, the faithful one, who was killed by YOUR side, where Satan is dwelling

Revelation 12:9 So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him.

How could Satan offer Jesus the kingdoms of the world if he didnt control them? AS Revelation say Satan is here on earth misleading the entire world.

-The Holy Spirit is only available to this one cult

Luke 11:13 Therefore, if YOU, although being wicked, know how to give good gifts to YOUR children, how much more so will the Father in heaven give holy spirit to those asking him!â??

Galatians 5:22-23 On the other hand, the fruitage of the spirit is love, joy, peace, long-suffering, kindness, goodness, faith, 23Ã? mildness, self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24Ã?Â

As Luke says Jehovah gives Holy Spirit to those asking but you can recgonize those who have it by the fruitage they produce.

-There is no Hell

Revelation 12:9 So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him.

Revelation 20:1-3 And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven with the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand. 2� And he seized the dragon, the original serpent, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. 3� And he hurled him into the abyss and shut [it] and sealed [it] over him, that he might not mislead the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After these things he must be let loose for a little while.

Satan and his demons are confined to the earth not in a hell. Him and is demons will be confined in a pit for a 1000 years then he will be let out for a short time. Then he will be destroyed permanately.

-God is unable to be omnipresent or omniscient

-Omnipresent

1 King 8:49 you must also hear from the heavens, your established place of dwelling, their prayer and their request for favor, and you must execute judgment for them,

Hebrews 9:24 24� For Christ entered, not into a holy place made with hands, which is a copy of the reality, but into heaven itself, now to appear before the person of God for us.

Isaiah 66:1 This is what Jehovah has said: â??The heavens are my throne, and the earth is my footstool. Where, then, is the house that YOU people can build for me, and where, then, is the place as a resting-place for me?

Jehovah is in the heaven not every at once.

-Omniscient

Romans 9:10-13 Yet not that case alone, but also when Reâ?§bekâ?²ah conceived twins from the one [man], Isaac our forefather: 11� for when they had not yet been born nor had practiced anything good or vile, in order that the purpose of God respecting the choosing might continue dependent, not upon works, but upon the One who calls, 12� it was said to her: â??The older will be the slave of the younger.â?? 13� Just as it is written: â??I loved Jacob, but Eâ?²sau I hated.â??

Ephesians 1:4-5 4� just as he chose us in union with him before the founding of the world, that we should be holy and without blemish before him in love. 5� For he foreordained us to the adoption through Jesus Christ as sons to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will.

Yes Jehovah can see everything that has happened and will happen but that doesnt mean he has to use it. Example After creating adam and eve he saw everything was good and rested.If he knew they where going to sin do you think he would have rested? Would he have not stopped Cain from killing Abel who he loved? If Jehovah had foreknowledge, the opportunity to receive the benefits of Christ Jesusâ?? ransom sacrifice were already irrevocably sealed off from some, perhaps for millions of people, even before their birth, so that such ones could never prove worthy, it could not truly be said that the ransom was made available to all men.

-There is no life after death except for 144,000 select members of this cult

John 10:16-18 And I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; those also I must bring, and they will listen to my voice, and they will become one flock, one shepherd. 17� This is why the Father loves me, because I surrender my soul, in order that I may receive it again. 18� No man has taken it away from me, but I surrender it of my own initiative. I have authority to surrender it, and I have authority to receive it again. The commandment on this I received from my Father.

Revelation 21:1-4 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the former heaven and the former earth had passed away, and the sea is no more. 2� I saw also the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God and prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3� With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: â??Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his peoples. And God himself will be with them. 4� And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.

John 5:25-30 25� â??Most truly I say to YOU, The hour is coming, and it is now, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who have given heed will live. 26� For just as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted also to the Son to have life in himself. 27� And he has given him authority to do judging, because Son of man he is. 28� Do not marvel at this, because the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice 29� and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment. 30� I cannot do a single thing of my own initiative; just as I hear, I judge; and the judgment that I render is righteous, because I seek, not my own will, but the will of him that sent me.

revelation 20:12-13 And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and scrolls were opened. But another scroll was opened; it is the scroll of life. And the dead were judged out of those things written in the scrolls according to their deeds. 13� And the sea gave up those dead in it, and death and Haâ?²des gave up those dead in them, and they were judged individually according to their deeds

After Jesus destroys this system of thing,paradise will be restored where the righteous will live forever as well as the dead will be resurrected.

-Jesus second coming happened in (LOL) secret in 1914

Mark 13:8 For nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom, there will be earthquakes in one place after another, there will be food shortages. These are a beginning of pangs of distress.

First Thessalonians 5:1-4 Now as for the times and the seasons, brothers, YOU need nothing to be written to YOU. 2� For YOU yourselves know quite well that Jehovahâ??s day is coming exactly as a thief in the night. 3� Whenever it is that they are saying: â??Peace and security!â?? then sudden destruction is to be instantly upon them just as the pang of distress upon a pregnant woman; and they will by no means escape. 4� But YOU, brothers, YOU are not in darkness, so that that day should overtake YOU as it would thieves
Matthew 24:29-30 â??Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30� And then the sign of the Son of man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will beat themselves in lamentation, and they will see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Jesus has not come yet as the scriptures point out. In 1914 Jesus was anoited king in heaven and removed Satan and his demons from heaven which resulted in the first part of the sign at Mark 13:8 nations will rise against nation.

-Jesus Christ is a created being (like an angel) who one time did not exist

Revelation 3:14 And to the angel of the congregation in Laâ?§oâ?§diâ?§ceâ?²a write: These are the things that the Amen says, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation by God.

John 6:56-57 He that feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood remains in union with me, and I in union with him. 57� Just as the living Father sent me forth and I live because of the Father, he also that feeds on me, even that one will live because of me.

John 6:42 Jesus said to them: â??If God were YOUR Father, YOU would love me, for from God I came forth and am here. Neither have I come of my own initiative at all, but that One sent me forth

Just like it says at rev 3:14 Jesus was the beginning of Jehovahs creation.

-Salvation can only be earned by being loyal to this one cult

Revelation 7:10 And they keep on crying with a loud voice, saying: â??Salvation [we owe] to our God, who is seated on the throne, and to the Lamb.â??

Acts 4:12 Furthermore, there is no salvation in anyone else, for there is not another name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must get saved.

Salavation is thru Jehovah.

-“The first” resurrection occurred in 1918

Revelation 20:4-5 And I saw thrones, and there were those who sat down on them, and power of judging was given them. Yes, I saw the souls of those executed with the ax for the witness they bore to Jesus and for speaking about God, and those who had worshiped neither the wild beast nor its image and who had not received the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand. And they came to life and ruled as kings with the Christ for a thousand years. 5�  This is the first resurrection.

As you can see the first resurrection was of those of the 144000 who were dead. Example Peter Matthew Paul Timothy and who ever else was choosen and died. I have no idea of the date but it must have occured shortly after Jesus become king and threw satan to the earth.

-These cultists are not allowed to do any of the following; serve in the military, buy grils scout cookies, celebrate Christimas or Easter, or even their own birthday. Run for political office, vote, serve on a jury, own or wear a cross, donate blood, or accept a blood donation even in an emergency. salute the flag, be involved in martial arts, boxing or wrestling. They can’t even play Chess!

I have given you the reasons for christmas birthdays and easter, they are pagan holidays incorporated into your religion after 1000 ad. As for the rest…

Blood

Leviticus 3:17 It is a statute to time indefinite for YOUR generations, in all YOUR dwelling places: YOU must not eat any fat or any blood at all.

Deuteronomy 15:23 Only its blood you must not eat. Upon the earth you should pour it out as water

Acts 15:29 to keep abstaining from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from things strangled and from fornication. If YOU carefully keep yourselves from these things, YOU will prosper. Good health to YOU!â??

The bible clearly states we must not eat or use blood.

Political

John 17:15 â??I request you, not to take them out of the world, but to watch over them because of the wicked one. 16� They are no part of the world, just as I am no part of the world.

Colossians 2:8-10 Look out: perhaps there may be someone who will carry YOU off as his prey through the philosophy and empty deception according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary things of the world and not according to Christ; 9� because it is in him that all the fullness of the divine quality dwells bodily. 10� And so YOU are possessed of a fullness by means of him, who is the head of all government and authority.

Acts 5:29 In answer Peter and the [other] apostles said: â??We must obey God as ruler rather than men.

We obey all laws but we must obey god.

Violence

Psalms 11:5 Jehovah himself examines the righteous one as well as the wicked one,
And anyone loving violence His soul certainly hates.

Last one… the cross

1 corinthians 10:14 Therefore, my beloved ones, flee from idolatry

Exodus 20:4-5 â??You must not make for yourself a carved image or a form like anything that is in the heavens above or that is on the earth underneath or that is in the waters under the earth. 5� You must not bow down to them nor be induced to serve them, because I Jehovah your God am a God exacting exclusive devotion, bringing punishment for the error of fathers upon sons, upon the third generation and upon the fourth generation, in the case of those who hate me;

[quote]Vonamberg wrote:
Last one… the cross

1 corinthians 10:14 Therefore, my beloved ones, flee from idolatry

Exodus 20:4-5 �¢??You must not make for yourself a carved image or a form like anything that is in the heavens above or that is on the earth underneath or that is in the waters under the earth. 5�?� You must not bow down to them nor be induced to serve them, because I Jehovah your God am a God exacting exclusive devotion, bringing punishment for the error of fathers upon sons, upon the third generation and upon the fourth generation, in the case of those who hate me;
[/quote]

This is about worshiping statues, not forbiding religious use of statues. If you “search the scriptures” (cf. John 5:39), you will see the opposite of your claim: that God commanded their use in religious contexts.

Take your Bible out, flip to Exodus 25:18-20 where it says, “Thou shalt make also two cherubims of beaten gold, on the two sides of the oracle. Let one cherub be on the one side, and the other on the other. Let them cover both sides of the propitiatory, spreading their wings, and covering the oracle, and let them look one towards the other, their faces being turned towards the propitiatory wherewith the ark is to be covered.”

Dave handed over to Solomon the plan “for the altar of incense, he gave the purest gold: and to make the likeness of the chariot of the cherubims spreading their wings, and covering the ark of the covenant of the Lord. All these things, said he, came to me written by the hand of the Lord that I might understand all the works of the pattern.” (1st Book Of Paralipomenon 28:18). David’s plan, which “came to [Davd] written by the hand of the Lord” included statues of angels.

If you read Exodus 20 closely, it says not to “adore them, nor serve them” as you would the Lord. Not for having or using graven images.

[quote]blacksheep wrote:
Stated,

" John 14:29 YOU heard that I said to YOU, I am going away and I am coming [back] to YOU. If YOU loved me, YOU would rejoice that I am going my way to the Father, because the Father is greater than I am.

If there is a trinity how could one be greater then the rest, since there is only one person? "

The phrase “my Father is greater than I” does raise the question, as noted above, is the Son inferior to the Father? No, for Philippians 2:6 points out that in His preincarnate existence Jesus “thought it not robbery to be equal with God.” The statement simply means that in the Incarnation, Jesus deliberately subordinated himself. He who had been “in the form of God” took upon himself the “form of a servant” and the “likeness of men” (Phil. 2:6-7). This voluntary humbling did not affect His essential deity.[/quote]

In my bible the word form cites two scriptures.
Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation;

Heb 1:3 3 He is the reflection of [his] glory and the exact representation of his very being, and he sustains all things by the word of his power; and after he had made a purification for our sins he sat down on the right hand of the Majesty in lofty places

So his form is a spirit creature. That has nothing to do with whether Jesus was god or not.

This is about worshiping statues, not forbiding religious use of statues. If you “search the scriptures” (cf. John 5:39), you will see the opposite of your claim: that God commanded their use in religious contexts.

Take your Bible out, flip to Exodus 25:18-20 where it says, “Thou shalt make also two cherubims of beaten gold, on the two sides of the oracle. Let one cherub be on the one side, and the other on the other. Let them cover both sides of the propitiatory, spreading their wings, and covering the oracle, and let them look one towards the other, their faces being turned towards the propitiatory wherewith the ark is to be covered.”

Dave handed over to Solomon the plan “for the altar of incense, he gave the purest gold: and to make the likeness of the chariot of the cherubims spreading their wings, and covering the ark of the covenant of the Lord. All these things, said he, came to me written by the hand of the Lord that I might understand all the works of the pattern.” (1st Book Of Paralipomenon 28:18). David’s plan, which “came to [Davd] written by the hand of the Lord” included statues of angels.

If you read Exodus 20 closely, it says not to “adore them, nor serve them” as you would the Lord. Not for having or using graven images.[/quote]

Chris no offense to you but I dont use the king james and I had to look up Paralipomenon. Why dont you just say 1 Chronicles?
John 5:39 has to do with unbelieving jews not idoltry.

Your point about the cherubs above the ark and in the temple, that was directed by Jehovah. Thats not what im talking about.

This is what im talking about
http://mw1.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/idolatry
plural idol�·a�·tries
Definition of IDOLATRY
1: the worship of a physical object as a god

Since I have a modern english bible please so me adore but not worship:
(Exodus 20:1-26) And God proceeded to speak all these words, saying: 2� â??I am Jehovah your God, who have brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slaves. 3� You must not have any other gods against my face. 4� â??You must not make for yourself a carved image or a form like anything that is in the heavens above or that is on the earth underneath or that is in the waters under the earth. 5� You must not bow down to them nor be induced to serve them, because I Jehovah your God am a God exacting exclusive devotion, bringing punishment for the error of fathers upon sons, upon the third generation and upon the fourth generation, in the case of those who hate me; 6� but exercising loving-kindness toward the thousandth generation in the case of those who love me and keep my commandments. 7� â??You must not take up the name of Jehovah your God in a worthless way, for Jehovah will not leave the one unpunished who takes up his name in a worthless way. 8� â??Remembering the sabbath day to hold it sacred, 9� you are to render service and you must do all your work six days. 10� But the seventh day is a sabbath to Jehovah your God. You must not do any work, you nor your son nor your daughter, your slave man nor your slave girl nor your domestic animal nor your alien resident who is inside your gates. 11� For in six days Jehovah made the heavens and the earth, the sea and everything that is in them, and he proceeded to rest on the seventh day. That is why Jehovah blessed the sabbath day and proceeded to make it sacred. 12� â??Honor your father and your mother in order that your days may prove long upon the ground that Jehovah your God is giving you. 13� â??You must not murder. 14� â??You must not commit adultery. 15� â??You must not steal. 16� â??You must not testify falsely as a witness against your fellowman. 17� â??You must not desire your fellowmanâ??s house. You must not desire your fellowmanâ??s wife, nor his slave man nor his slave girl nor his bull nor his ass nor anything that belongs to your fellowman.â?? 18� Now all the people were seeing the thunders and the lightning flashes and the sound of the horn and the mountain smoking. When the people got to see it, then they quivered and stood at a distance. 19� And they began to say to Moses: â??You speak with us, and let us listen; but let not God speak with us for fear we may die.â?? 20� So Moses said to the people: â??Do not be afraid, because for the sake of putting YOU to the test the [true] God has come, and in order that the fear of him may continue before YOUR faces that YOU may not sin.â?? 21� And the people kept standing at a distance, but Moses went near to the dark cloud mass where the [true] God was. 22� And Jehovah went on to say to Moses: â??This is what you are to say to the sons of Israel, â??YOU yourselves have seen that it was from the heavens I spoke with YOU. 23� YOU must not make along with me gods of silver, and YOU must not make gods of gold for yourselves. 24� An altar of ground you are to make for me, and you must sacrifice upon it your burnt offerings and your communion sacrifices, your flock and your herd. In every place where I shall cause my name to be remembered I shall come to you and shall certainly bless you. 25� And if you should make an altar of stones for me, you must not build them as hewn stones. In the event that you do wield your chisel upon it, then you will profane it. 26� And you must not go up by steps to my altar, that your private parts may not be exposed upon it.â??

This make it very clear

Exodus 20:4-5 â??You must not make for yourself a carved image or a form like anything that is in the heavens above or that is on the earth underneath or that is in the waters under the earth. 5� You must not bow down to them nor be induced to serve them, because I Jehovah your God am a God exacting exclusive devotion, bringing punishment for the error of fathers upon sons, upon the third generation and upon the fourth generation, in the case of those who hate me;
1 corinthians 10:14 14� Therefore, my beloved ones, flee from idolatry

Galatians 5:19-2119� Now the works of the flesh are manifest, and they are fornication, uncleanness, loose conduct, 20� idolatry, practice of spiritism, enmities, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, contentions, divisions, sects, 21� envies, drunken bouts, revelries, and things like these. As to these things I am forewarning YOU, the same way as I did forewarn YOU, that those who practice such things will not inherit Godâ??s kingdom

Why was the nation of Israel 1st destroyed by babylon? Idoltry

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Vonamberg wrote:
If there is a trinity how could one be greater then the rest, since there is only one person?
[/quote]

Because Jesus in context was talking about the Father’s will being greater than Jesus’ human will.

Uh…try the first time it was written was 70 A.D. 24-27 years after Jesus was dead, the Apostles’ message just rolled off their tongues, the Bible is being written as we speak.

Just read the Bishops who were instructed by the Apostles themselves and their disciples.

Um…The Didache 70 A.D. “Baptize in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost…Our God.” (Didache 7:1 [A.D. 70]).
Ignatius of Antioch: “Jesus Christ our God” (Letter to the Ephesians 1 [A.D. 110]). & “For our God, Jesus Christ…” (ibid., 18:2).
Justin Martyr in First Apology 13:5â??6 [A.D. 151].
Theophilus of Antioch in To Autolycus 2:15 [A.D. 181].
Irenaeus in Against Heresies 1:10:1 [A.D. 189].
Tertullian: the Father and the Son, and in the Holy Spirit…is the Trinity" (Against Praxeas 2 [A.D. 216]).
“For we do not hold that which the heretics imagine: that some part of the being of God was converted into the Son, or that the Son was procreated by the Father from non-existent substances, that is, from a being outside himself, so that there was a time when he [the Son] did not exist” (The Fundamental Doctrines 4:4:1 [A.D. 225]).
Hippolytus trinity in Refutation of All Heresies 10:29 [A.D. 228].
“For Scripture as much announces Christ as also God, as it announces God himself as man. It has as much described Jesus Christ to be man, as moreover it has also described Christ the Lord to be God. Because it does not set forth him to be the Son of God only, but also the son of man; nor does it only say, the son of man, but it has also been accustomed to speak of him as the Son of God. So that being of both, he is both, lest if he should be one only, he could not be the other. For as nature itself has prescribed that he must be believed to be a man who is of man, so the same nature prescribes also that he must be believed to be God who is of God. . . . Let them, therefore, who read that Jesus Christ the son of man is man, read also that this same Jesus is called also God and the Son of God” (Treatise on the Trinity 11 [A.D. 235]).
Pope Dionysius in 262.
Gregory the Wonderworker in 265.

So, we have from 70-265 A.D. of Bishops of the Catholic Church writing about the Trinity. I would post more but I figure you get the picture.[/quote]

If you read the link it was when it was finally accepted. All the nicean councils before that refrained from it.

[quote]Vonamberg wrote:
Why was the nation of Israel 1st destroyed by babylon? Idoltry
[/quote]

I don’t use KJV, KJV is riddled with errors. Although it does sound fancy. I use the Douay-Rheims Bible and the RSV-2CE (sometimes the NAB, but not preferrably). I would have used the RSV-2CE, but I don’t have it on me, so I went to my trusty Dr. Bo (drbo.org). I used Paralipomenon because that’s what it is called in the Douay Old Testament, I’ll remember to convert the name to something you’ll know.

Yes, but is still inspired by God and “one jot, or one tittle shall not pass of the law” until all is accomplished.

Yes, and as a Catholic (I can’t speak for the rest of the Christians), I do not worship a physical object as God, I only worship God. I know thousands of Catholics and we worship only God.

Are you trying to insult me by saying you have a “modern” English Bible? What did they not have it right the first time they translated into English, did they not have it right when they first wrote it down? I’ll use my Bible (Douay-Rheims, RSV-2CE, NAB), a current one for you that just came out. RSV-2CE.

Exodus 20:18-20 says, “And you shall make two cherubim of gold: of hammered work shall you make them, on the two ends of the mercy seat. Make one cherub on the one end, and one cherub on the other end; of one piece with the mercy seat shall you make the cherubim on its two ends. The cherubim shall spread out their wings above, overshadowing the mercy seat with their wings, their faces one to another; toward the mercy seat shall the faces of the cherubim be.”

And, I’ll put Exodus 20:4-5, “You shall not make for yourself a graven image, or likeness of anything that is in the heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them or serve them; for I the LORD your God am a jealous God.” It still says, “bow down or serve them” which can be resaid as “adore them, nor serve them.”

Same message, same meaning. Do not worship statues of anything (in heaven, earth, or water). I don’t and neither does the Catholic Church. We use the Crucifix religiously, we do not worship it. We use it like the Jews used the Cherubim and the bronze serpent named Nehush’tan (Numbers 21:9), but we do not burn incense to it like the Jews did in 2 Kings 18:4.

Yes, and I don’t think anyone believes crosses or Crucifixes are God.

[quote]Vonamberg wrote:
If you read the link it was when it was finally accepted. All the nicean councils before that refrained from it.

[/quote]

Do you know how Catholic councils work?

[quote]Vonamberg wrote:
Zeb[quote]

Not really, you never explained how anyone could be loony enough to fall into such a cult. If someone told you that you were someday going to be a member of an organization that prohibited you from buying girl scout cookies you’d have said they were crazy. Unless of course you got into the cult as a child, in which case I feel sorry for you.[/quote]

Again about the girl scouts… are you getting a kick back or something? Personal choice no one has ever told me not to btw. Sorry to tell you but I was an adult. Since your so curious about me, when did you fall into to your sect?

-All earthly governments are controlled by the devil

Luke 4:5-8 So he brought him up and showed him all the kingdoms of the inhabited earth in an instant of time; 6�?� and the Devil said to him: �¢??I will give you all this authority and the glory of them, because it has been delivered to me, and to whomever I wish I give it. 7�?� You, therefore, if you do an act of worship before me, it will all be yours.�¢?? 8�?� In reply Jesus said to him: �¢??It is written, �¢??It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service

Matthew 4:8-11 Again the Devil took him along to an unusually high mountain, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory, 9�?� and he said to him: �¢??All these things I will give you if you fall down and do an act of worship to me.�¢?? 10�?� Then Jesus said to him: �¢??Go away, Satan! For it is written, �¢??It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.�¢??�¢?? 11�?� Then the Devil left him, and, look! angels came and began to minister to him.

Revelation 2:12-13 �¢??And to the angel of the congregation in Per�¢?�²ga�¢?�§mum write: These are the things that he says who has the sharp, long two-edged sword, 13�?� �¢??I know where you are dwelling, that is, where the throne of Satan is; and yet you keep on holding fast my name, and you did not deny your faith in me even in the days of An�¢?�²ti�¢?�§pas, my witness, the faithful one, who was killed by YOUR side, where Satan is dwelling

Revelation 12:9 So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him.

How could Satan offer Jesus the kingdoms of the world if he didnt control them? AS Revelation say Satan is here on earth misleading the entire world.

-The Holy Spirit is only available to this one cult

Luke 11:13 Therefore, if YOU, although being wicked, know how to give good gifts to YOUR children, how much more so will the Father in heaven give holy spirit to those asking him!�¢??

Galatians 5:22-23 On the other hand, the fruitage of the spirit is love, joy, peace, long-suffering, kindness, goodness, faith, 23Ã??Ã? mildness, self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24Ã??Ã?Â

As Luke says Jehovah gives Holy Spirit to those asking but you can recgonize those who have it by the fruitage they produce.

-There is no Hell

Revelation 12:9 So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him.

Revelation 20:1-3 And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven with the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand. 2�?� And he seized the dragon, the original serpent, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. 3�?� And he hurled him into the abyss and shut [it] and sealed [it] over him, that he might not mislead the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After these things he must be let loose for a little while.

Satan and his demons are confined to the earth not in a hell. Him and is demons will be confined in a pit for a 1000 years then he will be let out for a short time. Then he will be destroyed permanately.

-God is unable to be omnipresent or omniscient

-Omnipresent

1 King 8:49 you must also hear from the heavens, your established place of dwelling, their prayer and their request for favor, and you must execute judgment for them,

Hebrews 9:24 24�?� For Christ entered, not into a holy place made with hands, which is a copy of the reality, but into heaven itself, now to appear before the person of God for us.

Isaiah 66:1 This is what Jehovah has said: �¢??The heavens are my throne, and the earth is my footstool. Where, then, is the house that YOU people can build for me, and where, then, is the place as a resting-place for me?

Jehovah is in the heaven not every at once.

-Omniscient

Romans 9:10-13 Yet not that case alone, but also when Re�¢?�§bek�¢?�²ah conceived twins from the one [man], Isaac our forefather: 11�?� for when they had not yet been born nor had practiced anything good or vile, in order that the purpose of God respecting the choosing might continue dependent, not upon works, but upon the One who calls, 12�?� it was said to her: �¢??The older will be the slave of the younger.�¢?? 13�?� Just as it is written: �¢??I loved Jacob, but E�¢?�²sau I hated.�¢??

Ephesians 1:4-5 4�?� just as he chose us in union with him before the founding of the world, that we should be holy and without blemish before him in love. 5�?� For he foreordained us to the adoption through Jesus Christ as sons to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will.

Yes Jehovah can see everything that has happened and will happen but that doesnt mean he has to use it. Example After creating adam and eve he saw everything was good and rested.If he knew they where going to sin do you think he would have rested? Would he have not stopped Cain from killing Abel who he loved? If Jehovah had foreknowledge, the opportunity to receive the benefits of Christ Jesus�¢?? ransom sacrifice were already irrevocably sealed off from some, perhaps for millions of people, even before their birth, so that such ones could never prove worthy, it could not truly be said that the ransom was made available to all men.

-There is no life after death except for 144,000 select members of this cult

John 10:16-18 And I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; those also I must bring, and they will listen to my voice, and they will become one flock, one shepherd. 17�?� This is why the Father loves me, because I surrender my soul, in order that I may receive it again. 18�?� No man has taken it away from me, but I surrender it of my own initiative. I have authority to surrender it, and I have authority to receive it again. The commandment on this I received from my Father.

Revelation 21:1-4 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the former heaven and the former earth had passed away, and the sea is no more. 2�?� I saw also the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God and prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3�?� With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: �¢??Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his peoples. And God himself will be with them. 4�?� And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.

John 5:25-30 25�?� �¢??Most truly I say to YOU, The hour is coming, and it is now, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who have given heed will live. 26�?� For just as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted also to the Son to have life in himself. 27�?� And he has given him authority to do judging, because Son of man he is. 28�?� Do not marvel at this, because the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice 29�?� and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment. 30�?� I cannot do a single thing of my own initiative; just as I hear, I judge; and the judgment that I render is righteous, because I seek, not my own will, but the will of him that sent me.

revelation 20:12-13 And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and scrolls were opened. But another scroll was opened; it is the scroll of life. And the dead were judged out of those things written in the scrolls according to their deeds. 13�?� And the sea gave up those dead in it, and death and Ha�¢?�²des gave up those dead in them, and they were judged individually according to their deeds

After Jesus destroys this system of thing,paradise will be restored where the righteous will live forever as well as the dead will be resurrected.

-Jesus second coming happened in (LOL) secret in 1914

Mark 13:8 For nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom, there will be earthquakes in one place after another, there will be food shortages. These are a beginning of pangs of distress.

First Thessalonians 5:1-4 Now as for the times and the seasons, brothers, YOU need nothing to be written to YOU. 2�?� For YOU yourselves know quite well that Jehovah�¢??s day is coming exactly as a thief in the night. 3�?� Whenever it is that they are saying: �¢??Peace and security!�¢?? then sudden destruction is to be instantly upon them just as the pang of distress upon a pregnant woman; and they will by no means escape. 4�?� But YOU, brothers, YOU are not in darkness, so that that day should overtake YOU as it would thieves
Matthew 24:29-30 �¢??Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30�?� And then the sign of the Son of man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will beat themselves in lamentation, and they will see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Jesus has not come yet as the scriptures point out. In 1914 Jesus was anoited king in heaven and removed Satan and his demons from heaven which resulted in the first part of the sign at Mark 13:8 nations will rise against nation.

-Jesus Christ is a created being (like an angel) who one time did not exist

Revelation 3:14 And to the angel of the congregation in La�¢?�§o�¢?�§di�¢?�§ce�¢?�²a write: These are the things that the Amen says, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation by God.

John 6:56-57 He that feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood remains in union with me, and I in union with him. 57�?� Just as the living Father sent me forth and I live because of the Father, he also that feeds on me, even that one will live because of me.

John 6:42 Jesus said to them: �¢??If God were YOUR Father, YOU would love me, for from God I came forth and am here. Neither have I come of my own initiative at all, but that One sent me forth

Just like it says at rev 3:14 Jesus was the beginning of Jehovahs creation.

-Salvation can only be earned by being loyal to this one cult

Revelation 7:10 And they keep on crying with a loud voice, saying: �¢??Salvation [we owe] to our God, who is seated on the throne, and to the Lamb.�¢??

Acts 4:12 Furthermore, there is no salvation in anyone else, for there is not another name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must get saved.

Salavation is thru Jehovah.

-“The first” resurrection occurred in 1918

Revelation 20:4-5 And I saw thrones, and there were those who sat down on them, and power of judging was given them. Yes, I saw the souls of those executed with the ax for the witness they bore to Jesus and for speaking about God, and those who had worshiped neither the wild beast nor its image and who had not received the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand. And they came to life and ruled as kings with the Christ for a thousand years. 5�?�  This is the first resurrection.

As you can see the first resurrection was of those of the 144000 who were dead. Example Peter Matthew Paul Timothy and who ever else was choosen and died. I have no idea of the date but it must have occured shortly after Jesus become king and threw satan to the earth.

-These cultists are not allowed to do any of the following; serve in the military, buy grils scout cookies, celebrate Christimas or Easter, or even their own birthday. Run for political office, vote, serve on a jury, own or wear a cross, donate blood, or accept a blood donation even in an emergency. salute the flag, be involved in martial arts, boxing or wrestling. They can’t even play Chess!

I have given you the reasons for christmas birthdays and easter, they are pagan holidays incorporated into your religion after 1000 ad. As for the rest…

Blood

Leviticus 3:17 It is a statute to time indefinite for YOUR generations, in all YOUR dwelling places: YOU must not eat any fat or any blood at all.

Deuteronomy 15:23 Only its blood you must not eat. Upon the earth you should pour it out as water

Acts 15:29 to keep abstaining from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from things strangled and from fornication. If YOU carefully keep yourselves from these things, YOU will prosper. Good health to YOU!�¢??

The bible clearly states we must not eat or use blood.

Political

John 17:15 �¢??I request you, not to take them out of the world, but to watch over them because of the wicked one. 16�?� They are no part of the world, just as I am no part of the world.

Colossians 2:8-10 Look out: perhaps there may be someone who will carry YOU off as his prey through the philosophy and empty deception according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary things of the world and not according to Christ; 9�?� because it is in him that all the fullness of the divine quality dwells bodily. 10�?� And so YOU are possessed of a fullness by means of him, who is the head of all government and authority.

Acts 5:29 In answer Peter and the [other] apostles said: �¢??We must obey God as ruler rather than men.

We obey all laws but we must obey god.

Violence

Psalms 11:5 Jehovah himself examines the righteous one as well as the wicked one,
And anyone loving violence His soul certainly hates.

Last one… the cross

1 corinthians 10:14 Therefore, my beloved ones, flee from idolatry

Exodus 20:4-5 �¢??You must not make for yourself a carved image or a form like anything that is in the heavens above or that is on the earth underneath or that is in the waters under the earth. 5�?� You must not bow down to them nor be induced to serve them, because I Jehovah your God am a God exacting exclusive devotion, bringing punishment for the error of fathers upon sons, upon the third generation and upon the fourth generation, in the case of those who hate me;

[/quote]

(With Glassy Eyes and a robotic sounding voice) Yes master…I read and obey…I will now knock on every door on my block and present to them the truth as our cult sees it.

(coming out of trance but still not quite back to reality)

I now realize that the 10’s of thousands of Christian Bible scholars who dedicated their lives to scripture interpretation have simply wasted their time. They should have just read the writings of a crazy old man from the 1800’s. How could I have been so wrong. Please mail me some of those cool pamphlets and I’ll hit the sidewalks as soon as the weather clears. Oh…and I will make sure to toss out those 6 boxes of GS cookies that my wife got suckered into buying from those evil little girls.

And now that I know there is no hell I can pretty much do what I want—what is it now you just disappear when you die? Is that it? Well, heck yeah that system is much nicer than the truth…err I mean those Christian lies. No punishment, and no reward either just POOF…Cool. And now that I’m doing away with Christmas (what self-respecting cult with have anything to do with celebrating Jesus Christ’s birthday anyway) I’ll be saving a bundle on presents. And no easter either so I don’t have to worry about all the chocolate bunny’s. That used to screw up my diet anyway. I’m going to looooove my new life in wacky land :slight_smile:

Once again I thank you so much for opening my eyes to the truth.

And while I’m at it I’d be remiss if I didn’t ask you exactly when the world will end. I know that as a new cult member I am probably not privy to all of that good stuff, but thought I’d ask anyway.

Since JW predicted the end of the world five times (1914, 1918, 1925, 1942 and 1975) and were obviously wrong each time I think I need to defend that nonsense. So what do I say to those evil doubter’s (they’re mostly girl scouts) who say that JW have been wrong about these things?

Okay I think that’s all for now.

Nooooo…wait…what about the false prophecies that have come out of the JW? Like the prediction of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob being resurrected and living on the earth by 1925? Hmm…I don’t know what I’ll say when they ask me about that. And also the 1000 year reign of Christ that was supposed to have started in 1975. What about that one? I just want to make sure I have the right answer so I don’t make anyone in the cult look bad - You know me…I’m a team player :slight_smile:

Okay I want to make sure I get this right:

God is not omnipotent

Michael was the first created being

Jesus Christ is only an angel

There is no heaven or hell we just disappear

Don’t celebrate Christmas, or Easter.

Don’t serve in the military

And whatever the heck you do DO NOT BUY GIRL SCOUT COOKIES!

I got it—I’ll be good at this.

Oh one final thing, what’s the view on Satan I don’t want to blow this one.

[quote]ZEB wrote:
And while I’m at it I’d be remiss if I didn’t ask you exactly when the world will end. I know that as a new cult member I am probably not privy to all of that good stuff, but thought I’d ask anyway.

Since JW predicted the end of the world five times (1914, 1918, 1925, 1942 and 1975) and were obviously wrong each time I think I need to defend that nonsense. So what do I say to those evil doubter’s (they’re mostly girl scouts) who say that JW have been wrong about these things?

Okay I think that’s all for now.

Nooooo…wait…what about the false prophecies that have come out of the JW? Like the prediction of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob being resurrected and living on the earth by 1925? Hmm…I don’t know what I’ll say when they ask me about that. And also the 1000 year reign of Christ that was supposed to have started in 1975. What about that one? I just want to make sure I have the right answer so I don’t make anyone in the cult look bad - You know me…I’m a team player :slight_smile:

Okay I want to make sure I get this right:

God is not omnipotent

Michael was the first created being

Jesus Christ is only an angel

There is no heaven or hell we just disappear

Don’t celebrate Christmas, or Easter.

Don’t serve in the military

And whatever the heck you do DO NOT BUY GIRL SCOUT COOKIES!

I got it—I’ll be good at this.

Oh one final thing, what’s the view on Satan I don’t want to blow this one.

[/quote]
Since all men are imperfect and I wasnt alive when those things went on I cant tell you. But I can direct you to some who knows it all, his name is Jehovah.

Zeb prove that Im wrong by use of the scriptures not by idiotic words.
The world is not going to end this system of things is.

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Vonamberg wrote:
Why was the nation of Israel 1st destroyed by babylon? Idoltry
[/quote]

I don’t use KJV, KJV is riddled with errors. Although it does sound fancy. I use the Douay-Rheims Bible and the RSV-2CE (sometimes the NAB, but not preferrably). I would have used the RSV-2CE, but I don’t have it on me, so I went to my trusty Dr. Bo (drbo.org). I used Paralipomenon because that’s what it is called in the Douay Old Testament, I’ll remember to convert the name to something you’ll know.

Yes, but is still inspired by God and “one jot, or one tittle shall not pass of the law” until all is accomplished.

Yes, and as a Catholic (I can’t speak for the rest of the Christians), I do not worship a physical object as God, I only worship God. I know thousands of Catholics and we worship only God.

Are you trying to insult me by saying you have a “modern” English Bible? What did they not have it right the first time they translated into English, did they not have it right when they first wrote it down? I’ll use my Bible (Douay-Rheims, RSV-2CE, NAB), a current one for you that just came out. RSV-2CE.

Exodus 20:18-20 says, “And you shall make two cherubim of gold: of hammered work shall you make them, on the two ends of the mercy seat. Make one cherub on the one end, and one cherub on the other end; of one piece with the mercy seat shall you make the cherubim on its two ends. The cherubim shall spread out their wings above, overshadowing the mercy seat with their wings, their faces one to another; toward the mercy seat shall the faces of the cherubim be.”

And, I’ll put Exodus 20:4-5, “You shall not make for yourself a graven image, or likeness of anything that is in the heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them or serve them; for I the LORD your God am a jealous God.” It still says, “bow down or serve them” which can be resaid as “adore them, nor serve them.”

Same message, same meaning. Do not worship statues of anything (in heaven, earth, or water). I don’t and neither does the Catholic Church. We use the Crucifix religiously, we do not worship it. We use it like the Jews used the Cherubim and the bronze serpent named Nehush’tan (Numbers 21:9), but we do not burn incense to it like the Jews did in 2 Kings 18:4.

Yes, and I don’t think anyone believes crosses or Crucifixes are God.[/quote]

No Im not trying to insult you but my bible is in modern english not archaic english.
Worshiping anything but God is wrong.

[quote]Vonamberg wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:
And while I’m at it I’d be remiss if I didn’t ask you exactly when the world will end. I know that as a new cult member I am probably not privy to all of that good stuff, but thought I’d ask anyway.

Since JW predicted the end of the world five times (1914, 1918, 1925, 1942 and 1975) and were obviously wrong each time I think I need to defend that nonsense. So what do I say to those evil doubter’s (they’re mostly girl scouts) who say that JW have been wrong about these things?

Okay I think that’s all for now.

Nooooo…wait…what about the false prophecies that have come out of the JW? Like the prediction of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob being resurrected and living on the earth by 1925? Hmm…I don’t know what I’ll say when they ask me about that. And also the 1000 year reign of Christ that was supposed to have started in 1975. What about that one? I just want to make sure I have the right answer so I don’t make anyone in the cult look bad - You know me…I’m a team player :slight_smile:

Okay I want to make sure I get this right:

God is not omnipotent

Michael was the first created being

Jesus Christ is only an angel

There is no heaven or hell we just disappear

Don’t celebrate Christmas, or Easter.

Don’t serve in the military

And whatever the heck you do DO NOT BUY GIRL SCOUT COOKIES!

I got it—I’ll be good at this.

Oh one final thing, what’s the view on Satan I don’t want to blow this one.

[/quote]
Since all men are imperfect and I wasnt alive when those things went on I cant tell you. But I can direct you to some who knows it all, his name is Jehovah.

Zeb prove that Im wrong by use of the scriptures not by idiotic words.
[/quote]

But Jehovah will not provide false prophesies.

[quote]forbes wrote:

[quote]Vonamberg wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:
And while I’m at it I’d be remiss if I didn’t ask you exactly when the world will end. I know that as a new cult member I am probably not privy to all of that good stuff, but thought I’d ask anyway.

Since JW predicted the end of the world five times (1914, 1918, 1925, 1942 and 1975) and were obviously wrong each time I think I need to defend that nonsense. So what do I say to those evil doubter’s (they’re mostly girl scouts) who say that JW have been wrong about these things?

Okay I think that’s all for now.

Nooooo…wait…what about the false prophecies that have come out of the JW? Like the prediction of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob being resurrected and living on the earth by 1925? Hmm…I don’t know what I’ll say when they ask me about that. And also the 1000 year reign of Christ that was supposed to have started in 1975. What about that one? I just want to make sure I have the right answer so I don’t make anyone in the cult look bad - You know me…I’m a team player :slight_smile:

Okay I want to make sure I get this right:

God is not omnipotent

Michael was the first created being

Jesus Christ is only an angel

There is no heaven or hell we just disappear

Don’t celebrate Christmas, or Easter.

Don’t serve in the military

And whatever the heck you do DO NOT BUY GIRL SCOUT COOKIES!

I got it—I’ll be good at this.

Oh one final thing, what’s the view on Satan I don’t want to blow this one.

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Since all men are imperfect and I wasnt alive when those things went on I cant tell you. But I can direct you to some who knows it all, his name is Jehovah.

Zeb prove that Im wrong by use of the scriptures not by idiotic words.
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But Jehovah will not provide false prophesies.[/quote]

Are you mocking god? Jesus gave all us things to watch to see when the end was close
Matthew 24:7-14 For nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be food shortages and earthquakes in one place after another. 8 All these things are a beginning of pangs of distress.
9 â??Then people will deliver YOU up to tribulation and will kill YOU, and YOU will be objects of hatred by all the nations on account of my name. 10 Then, also, many will be stumbled and will betray one another and will hate one another. 11 And many false prophets will arise and mislead many; 12 and because of the increasing of lawlessness the love of the greater number will cool off. 13 But he that has endured to the end is the one that will be saved. 14 And this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come.

No, I am mocking the false prophets of your organization who claimed to have received prophetic revelation from God but these prophesies never came true.

[quote]forbes wrote:
No, I am mocking the false prophets of your organization who claimed to have received prophetic revelation from God but these prophesies never came true. [/quote]
Feel free we can only wait and see