[quote]skidmark wrote:
Ecogenx recommended plate raises to me. I think they’re a great idea for shoulder work.[/quote]
Did a quick search but came up empty on “plate raise” as far as a description of the movement. Is it similar to a DB front raise?
Just so. Can use DBs but keep them together, vertical(your thumbs pointing up) and perform the raise with elbows out and slightly bent. Works all three heads of the deltoid muscles and trains you to pull the scapulae down for stabilization. !No Swinging!
Good exercise. Don’t go above shoulder height, though, as it can cause more impingement.
Above-the-shoulder work really needs to have the elbows out to the sides and externally rotated rather than in front with internal rotation due to the structure of the shoulder. Shoulder structure is one of the reasons upright rows (where elbows go above the joint) are not good for the shoulder.
[quote]skidmark wrote:
Just so. Can use DBs but keep them together, vertical(your thumbs pointing up) and perform the raise with elbows out and slightly bent. Works all three heads of the deltoid muscles and trains you to pull the scapulae down for stabilization. !No Swinging!
Good exercise. Don’t go above shoulder height, though, as it can cause more impingement.
Above-the-shoulder work really needs to have the elbows out to the sides and externally rotated rather than in front with internal rotation due to the structure of the shoulder. Shoulder structure is one of the reasons upright rows (where elbows go above the joint) are not good for the shoulder.[/quote]
Thanks Skid! That looks like a good addition.
Hey Soldog -
On those side pulldowns are you supposed to have knuckles facing the leg? I have a tendency to round my shoulder doing them that way whereas if I turn the knuckles forward I can feel it in the shoulder blade more. Which way is correct?
I’ve done the plate raises just holdong a 45 or 25 lb plate with both hands and like Skid recommends, thumbs up and not above shoulder height.
Have you considered dropping your amount of weight and upping the reps for a while. Try something totally different like all exercises 20 reps(or more)for a while. Or try something by Ellington Darden I did for a while: 10 sec contraction 5 second negative. Its in a book of his called Super Slow and is easier on the joints.
Hope your shoulder comes along quickly.
[quote]skidmark wrote:
Hey Soldog -
On those side pulldowns are you supposed to have knuckles facing the leg? I have a tendency to round my shoulder doing them that way whereas if I turn the knuckles forward I can feel it in the shoulder blade more. Which way is correct?
[/quote]
The PT had me doing them palm/knuckles toward the leg and she was constantly reminding me about posture.
[quote]ecogenx wrote:
I’ve done the plate raises just holdong a 45 or 25 lb plate with both hands and like Skid recommends, thumbs up and not above shoulder height.
Have you considered dropping your amount of weight and upping the reps for a while. Try something totally different like all exercises 20 reps(or more)for a while. Or try something by Ellington Darden I did for a while: 10 sec contraction 5 second negative. Its in a book of his called Super Slow and is easier on the joints.
Hope your shoulder comes along quickly.[/quote]
Just tried the DB raises and cannot do them without pain at this point. Same thing with shrugs.
I’m so new at this game that I don’t know what I don’t know. So no I haven’t considered the variations you suggest. I certainly will in the future because they sound like the type of sets to do when I bring the upper body push exercises back into the mix.
Thanks for the suggestions and kind thoughts!
22 May 2008
So I finally got the boy back training with me tonight, that combined with feeling our way through a new routine added up to almost a 2 hour session.
Weight = 187 lbs
Zercher Squat: 5x45, 5x135, 5x155, 3x5x175 lbs
Never have done these before so I worked up to 175. I’ll keep it here for a time or two to make sure the form settles in…
Deadlift: 5x135, 3x5x205 lbs
Haven’t done sets of deads before - interesting (LOL)
Need to stay at this weight for form work.
Chinups: 3x5 BW
Last one was challenging. Will try 3x6 next.
Scap Pushups: 3x20
Inverted Scap row: 3x20
DB shrug: no go due to the shoulder
DB Front Raise: no go
DB curl: 3x5x38.5 lbs
Last one was a struggle on the left arm. Will still bump the weight next time.
Bench Dips: 3x5x80lbs
Ab work
Wrist curls: 3x5x33.5 lbs
Wrist Ext: 3x5x20 lbs
Evening set of rehab exercises.
My back and legs know I did something tonight…
For a fellow in rehab, you are doing some real work! I know you are using an alternating grip on the DLs – are you alternating the grip itself between sets for balance?
[quote]1Geech wrote:
For a fellow in rehab, you are doing some real work! I know you are using an alternating grip on the DLs – are you alternating the grip itself between sets for balance?[/quote]
Thanks Geech! - I do whatever I can that doesn’t hurt the shoulder.
re alternating grip:
Yep - as long as I don’t forget what position I did last.
That is why I am grateful for odd and even numbers: odd for non-dominant hand, even for dominant hand pronated!
Z-Squats and DLs! That’ll put some muscle on your butt!
Glad to hear your boy is back working out with you.
Note - Fred Hahn is no longer following his own Super-Slow program. He’s hired a trainer to train him in the regular lifts, or so I’ve heard. Don’t train slow unless you want to be slow according to all the strength studies out there.
Rehab: Ecogenx is spot on regarding the high rep low weight stuff. Nothing better to get the circulation going in the connective tissues. However, the shoulder gets so much use that working it more may do no good.
Usually it’s a faulty movement pattern causing the problem, which then shows as inflammation after it’s been going on long enough. The muscles of the shoulder girdle have to be retrained and strengthened in the proper areas to remove the faulty movement pattern. Difficult, when pain is involved as you want to favor the affected area.
I guess if you can do incline benching and rear delt laterals, that will suffice for your shoulders for the time being until it heals.
[quote]skidmark wrote:
Usually it’s a faulty movement pattern causing the problem, which then shows as inflammation after it’s been going on long enough. The muscles of the shoulder girdle have to be retrained and strengthened in the proper areas to remove the faulty movement pattern. Difficult, when pain is involved as you want to favor the affected area.
I guess if you can do incline benching and rear delt laterals, that will suffice for your shoulders for the time being until it heals.[/quote]
The faulty movement pattern is years of hunching over a keyboard and reaching out to the mouse. I’m correcting the posture and getting a new keyboard that doesn’t have the numeric keypad. This will allow the mouse to be closer and eliminate the reach part.
I think I might try DB seated rear delt raises next session but I have a feeling the incline bench is verboten for now - might still try it with just the bar.
All of the band rehab exercises are oriented towards strengthening the rotator cuff muscles and intended to drop the humerus down and away from the bones that form the upper part of the shoulder “socket” thus removing/reducing the impingement. But all of this depends on getting the inflammation of the bursa to go away and allow some healing/retraining to happen.
Thanks for the continuing suggestions on new exercises to try …
I hear ya - got the same thing myself and am trying to work through it. I’ll gladly take any info you have on this as well. The side pulldowns are great, for instance.
Soldog, You’re the second person I’ve read recently who alternates which hand they pronate on the deadlift. I’ve never tried doing that. You say that takes some strain off your ailing shoulder?
Added later: Just got through watching the news. Hope all is well out in your part of Colorado. Some bad winds out there.
[quote]hel320 wrote:
Soldog, You’re the second person I’ve read recently who alternates which hand they pronate on the deadlift. I’ve never tried doing that. You say that takes some strain off your ailing shoulder?
Added later: Just got through watching the news. Hope all is well out in your part of Colorado. Some bad winds out there.[/quote]
Interestingly enough, the dead lifts don’t bother my shoulder at all. In fact, they probably help by pulling it down into the socket instead of riding up and causing impingement. Alternating the grip pronation (is that a word?) just seems to even out things for me.
Fortunately for us, the tornados were all north and east of us. Unfortunately for the people in Windsor, there was a hell of a lot of damage done.
My good wishes got out to those affected…
[quote]skidmark wrote:
I hear ya - got the same thing myself and am trying to work through it. I’ll gladly take any info you have on this as well. The side pulldowns are great, for instance.[/quote]
Couple of other exercises in the literature they gave me:
Wand exercises:
hold the wand in front, palms facing your body(supinated?), wand against thighs, raise overhead keeping elbows locked, hold the stretch 5 seconds, repeat 10 times
hold the wand in back, palms facing away from your back(supinated?), wand against backs of thighs, raise as far as possible keeping elbows locked, hold the stretch 5 seconds, repeat 10 times
Something they called scapation much like front raises but with arms slightly to the sides, minimal weights, thumbs up, raise arms to approx 30 degrees above horizontal, hold 2 seconds, repeat for 3 sets of 10
Interesting - I’ve been doing exactly those movements with bands although I’ve been pulling from the extended overhead position to the behind the back position with my torso horizontal to the floor and the band secured at the same height. They just seemed to feel right. A wand would be better though.
The last is contained in the YTWL movement, which is a killer - basically 4 exercises in one, 32 reps nonstop. Really painful but makes the shoulders feel good.
It’s Graduation Day! Did my shoulder rehab this morning and then went off to graduation. Daughter went off to a graduation party, wife, son & mother-in-law went to the mall, I gave a neighbor a ride home splurged on a sushi roll that had enough carbs to last me all weekend. So nothing to do but go for a little ride around the neighborhood (a little too late to try a go somewhere for a real trail ride).
I pushed this ride trying to keep my speed up and using all my parts of my legs to spin those pedals. Right now I can really feel it in my hamstrings and glutes. I think doing those Zercher squats and deadlifts are really going to help improve my riding strength.
Just over an hour for the ride.
views from the neighborhood ride