Israel's IDF Got Handed Their Ass

[quote]rainjack wrote:
Wreckless wrote:
Good thing the next president, your bigger than life role model stepped in. Oops, no, he just handed weapons to those evil murderous fucking nazi bastards. Why did he do that rainjack?

Like I said before, the global powerplay is not a computergame. That’s why kids like you don’t get to play it.

And neo-nazi fuckers like yourself hide out in Belgium. You are a disgusting piece of american hating shit.

I never said it was a video game. It’s just a bunch of sand and islamo-nazi’s over there. Nuking the area would serve a far greater good than nuking Japan. [/quote]

Rainjack, my good man.
You sound a bit upset.
Why do stupid people, like yourself, prefer to hide out in Texas?

Didn’t you see the “Reagan gave weapons to Iran” coming? Perhaps you should use your brain before you start typing away at your keyboard eh?

You’re starting to sound like dr. strangelove here.

Did you listen to Randy Newmans “political science” and didn’t you get the sarcasm?

You’re a tool rainjack.

There are only a couple of options here to win this war. They are as follows

  1. The West truly prepares for an all out war in the region and amasses all of its resources ala WWII. This would includes a draft and regulations on items like in WWII. This would also include no damn libs bitchin about how they rights and such are being violatd.

  2. We start playing their game. We take neo con militias out in Idaho who call themselves Christians, much like hezbollah calls them selves Islamists and give them weapons and say go kick some ass. They have enough drive to destroy hezbollah and they will do it in the name of God. Much like a modern crusade.

  3. We pull the covntional army out of Iraq and put in special guerilla units only. Who use the same tactics that the guerillas in Iraq do.

These are the quickest options for victory.

[quote]Odogg wrote:
That is serious business, like to the point it has NEVER happened before.[/quote]

Right… except in Iraq… and Afghanistan (to the Soviets in the 80s, although it seems right now to be moving back in that direction)… and in Vietnam… and just about any time a conventional army, no matter how well trained, engages a large, well-supplied guerrilla force, especially one that has no real agenda except embarassing and inflicting pain on the conventional army and the society it protects.

Actually, I’d say given the restraints under which international pressure forces Israel to operate and given the considerable support Hizb’allah has recieved for years and continued to recieve during the conflict from several neighboring countries (Iran, Syria, etc.), that the Israelis had pretty remarkable success. In about a month, they managed to seriously degrade their enemies’ ability to wage war and to push them back far enough that the huge majority of their remaining missiles (for example, the ones they used yesterday to try to break the cease fire) don’t even have the range to reach the Israeli border.

Also, Israel has managed to get the UN to agree to a resolution in which Hizb’allah will be completely disarmed and a joint International/Lebanese force will be tasked with seeing to the resolution’s implementation. Occupying countries for long periods of time while guerilla forces constantly target you and attempt to turn the civilian population even more strongly against you is pretty much never desirable as the Israelis discovered in Lebanon twenty years ago and as we are learning in Iraq. How exactly, given that they wanted to avoid at all costs getting stuck in Lebanon again, has the IDF just gotten their asses handed to them?

[quote]WhiteCaesar wrote:
Odogg wrote:
That is serious business, like to the point it has NEVER happened before.

Right… except in Iraq… and Afghanistan (to the Soviets in the 80s, although it seems right now to be moving back in that direction)… and in Vietnam… and just about any time a conventional army, no matter how well trained, engages a large, well-supplied guerrilla force, especially one that has no real agenda except embarassing and inflicting pain on the conventional army and the society it protects.

Actually, I’d say given the restraints under which international pressure forces Israel to operate and given the considerable support Hizb’allah has recieved for years and continued to recieve during the conflict from several neighboring countries (Iran, Syria, etc.), that the Israelis had pretty remarkable success. In about a month, they managed to seriously degrade their enemies’ ability to wage war and to push them back far enough that the huge majority of their remaining missiles (for example, the ones they used yesterday to try to break the cease fire) don’t even have the range to reach the Israeli border.

Also, Israel has managed to get the UN to agree to a resolution in which Hizb’allah will be completely disarmed and a joint International/Lebanese force will be tasked with seeing to the resolution’s implementation. Occupying countries for long periods of time while guerilla forces constantly target you and attempt to turn the civilian population even more strongly against you is pretty much never desirable as the Israelis discovered in Lebanon twenty years ago and as we are learning in Iraq. How exactly, given that they wanted to avoid at all costs getting stuck in Lebanon again, has the IDF just gotten their asses handed to them?

[/quote]

You’re absolutely right that they don’t want to get stuck their, but I’d say when Hezbollah launched the most missiles they’ve ever launched in a day just yesterday, no one thinks the UN resolution is worth the paper it’s printed on, and the conflict has showed serious tactical deficiencies in the Israeli army, I’d say Israel definitely didn’t win.

[quote]coolexec wrote:
mazilla wrote:
hedo wrote:
Your leader, the Iranian President, suggested last night that the Jews be given a homeland in Europe. How about Belgium? The Europeans buy into most of the Iranian arguments, perhaps this one wil haved some merit with the European appeasment crowd.

sounds like a great idea. if they just move out of israel, there will be no more problem. thats why the Iranians rule the middle east, to think otherwise is just fooling yourself.

Oh yes, Belgium would be a great choice. Jews are really safe there.
Belgium has a glorious Nazi past. During WW2 there was even a Waffen SS Division made up of Belgian volunteers.

Before the outbreak of World War II, Fascism was quite popular in Belgium, particularly in the French speaking region of Wallonia. Leon Degrelle, owner of a newspaper had founded the Rexist party in 1930. The Rexists watched the rise of Adolf Hitler’s NSDAP in Germany through the 1930’s and campaigned strongly for similar changes in their own country, some even fighting for the establishment of an independent Wallon nation.

When the Germans launched Fall Gelb in May 1940, the Belgian authorities placed Degrelle in custody to prevent him assisting the advancing enemy by raising dissent. Soon after Belgium’s capitulation, Degrelle was released and he immediately set about the work of furthering the Rexist party’s aims of an independent Walloon state.

Despite his efforts, Degrelle’s Rexists were largely ignored by the Germans, who were focusing their efforts on rousing the Flemings to their cause. Degrelle, seeing that Germany was not interested in his Rexists, began using his excellent oratory powers to gather a fighting force for the Nazis.

The unit, consisting mostly of men from the Formations de Combat, the paramilitary arm of the Rexist Party, was christened Corps Franc Wallonie (Free Corps Walloon). While Degrelle was in Paris campaigning for recognition of his party, the Germans ordered the formation of Wallonische Legion for service in the east.

Degrelle rushed back to find that his pretensions of military leadership were not to be. Command of the Legion, which had absorbed the Corps Franc Wallonie, was to go to Captain-Commandant Georges Jacobs, a retired Belgian colonial officer.

The allied invasion of Belgium in 1944 had resulted in an influx of new volunteers. Together with the Langemarck, the Wallonien Sturmbrigade was upgraded to become the 28.SS-Freiwilligen-Grenadier-Division Wallonien in October 1944.

The division was first sent to Southern Hanover then to Braunschweig to continue training. The new Walloon recruits were joined by Frenchmen from the L?gion des Volontaires Fran?ais contre le Bolch?visme (LVF).

The Wallonien was scheduled to take part in Operation Sonnenwende, the major offensive to relieve German troops encircled at Arnswalde. Wallonien was to operate in the area between the Madu See and the Plone See, covering the flank of the main attack. The offensive was launched on 15 February 1945, and met with initial success. However, after the III SS (Germanic) Panzer Corps reached Arnswalde, the situation changed and the Soviet defence began to solidify. Despite the XI Panzer Army causing heavy casualties, the offensive stalled. In heavy fighting, the Wallonien sustained as well as inflicted heavy losses, and eventually began a fighting withdrawal.

The Soviet counter-offensive, launched on 1 March, pushed the Wallonien before it, and over the next few weeks was in almost constant combat until it reached the Oder near Stettin. The Wallonien, fighting alongside the Langemarck managed to hold a thin strip of land on the eastern bank of the Oder until it was forced back across the river in early April. At this point the Walloons held a council of war and released those volunteers who no longer wished to continue the hopeless fight.

Many chose to remain, and they assembled in one last battalion, plentifully equipped with machine guns, panzerfausts, mortars, and automatic rifles. At the end of March, a second battalion was formed from men of the artillery and engineer units who had come forward from their technical schools, but this formation appears to have never been committed to battle. The Langemarck, who had also consolidated their remaining troops into two heavily armed battalions and an artillery section, was merged with the Wallonien under command of its tactical leader, SS-Sturmbannf?hrer Franz Hellebaut.

Joining the Belgians was one German battalion and a section of tank destroyers. Langemarck’s SS-Standartenf?hrer Schellong commanded the artillery and one of the Flemish battalions.

After the final Soviet offensive of 20 April, 1945, the Belgians held as best they could, but were soon swept aside by the advancing Soviets. After several unsuccessful counterattacks, the Belgian units realised all was lost and Degrelle ordered his troops to make for L?beck, where they eventually surrendered to British troops. He then drove with his bodyguard into Denmark. He then flew to Spain where he spent the rest of his life in exile. Degrelle died in 1994.

Nice guys …
[/quote]

Is it possible for a single politics thread to go by without a gratuitous ad hominem attack? Guess not.

You guys don’t get it, this was and is a political move, not military. Hezbollah was using Lebanese women and children to hid behind while shooting their rockets off. Israel would return fire and hit the civilians. The liberal media then shows on the news how Israel is killing all these innocent people and states very little about Hezbollah killing Israelis. So this turns the world against Israel as baby killers and makes the US look the same because of support for Israel.

The Lebanese government supports Hezbollah and allows them to be in their country while openly stating that they can’t do anything about it, and by the way Israel is killing babies!

So make no mistake, this was a purely political move because Hezbollah was using innocent women and children to hide behind.

I agree with blackjack. Why not deploy small tactical units are really fight the guerrila bastards, instead of carpet-shelling?

I also agree with white caeser’s post. And GDollars has point about the blatant attempt to undermine Wreckless’ pertinent observations with irreleavnt shit about the Belgian Imperial bullshit.

Also, rainjack is a tool, and has nothing to say on this issue. He’s pure ignorant, impotent rage in these threads

Oh yes the brave Belgian warriors trying to mount a cross-Atlantic assault. What would be your key weapon? The laugh factor?

Belgium? hahahah

The only thing Belgium has ever donw outside of its own borders, good or bad, is to create the Belgian Congo. How’d that work out?

Reading Wreckless critique US foreign policy is like watching my adulterous kindergarten teacher critique Shakespeare.

[quote]
Wreckless wrote:
If Bush is foolish enough to insist on an invasion in Iran, the generals will draw straws. And the unlucky one that draws the shortest straw, will have to use his side-arm to arrest him.

Your turn now.[/quote]

Wreck,
Sometimes you come up with some pretty off the wall stuff. This was too crazy not to comment on. I apologize for the hijack.

[quote]Wreckless wrote:
eic wrote:
Wreckless wrote:
Who’s going to bloody Irans nose in phase 2? Israel is not going anywhere soon after this debacle. The US is still stuck in Iraq. Who then?

Maybe Belgium?

No thanks.
[/quote]

Ha, ha. I thought not, Wreck. I thought not.

[quote]Wreckless wrote:
hedo wrote:
Wreckless wrote:
hedo wrote:
It’s not over yet.

Israel got suprised. They will adapt and overcome the enemy.

I think they are giving this sham cease fire a chance. It may last a week or two. The Hezbollah thugs will continue to attack and the IDF will hit them even harder. Hezbollah can’t recruit and train nearly as fast. With supply routes cut they can’t rearm as quickly if at all.

The use of advance weaponary is disturbing. It means they are being trained by a government. Iran most likely. It takes a lot of training and balls to fire a man portable anti-tank weapon at a tank. They are easy to fire but to get a hit you have to have some training. Iran needs to have their nose bloodied to get them to change. Look for that in phase two.

Sure it’s over. For a couple of years at least.

Israel wasn’t surprised. They picked this fight. They wanted it like Bush wanted Iraq. Bush egged them on. They weren’t getting what they had hoped for, but that’s not about being surprised. That’s about fooling yourself into believing your own propaganda.

Hezbollah will lay low for a while, at least a couple of years. They have their victory. They won’t risk loosing it. They’ll regroup, recruit, rearm and train.
Supply lines are cut? They’re not. Iran will be most pleased by Hezbollahs performance and will send resupplies immidiately. Syria will let them through. Reluctantly.

Who’s going to bloody Irans nose in phase 2? Israel is not going anywhere soon after this debacle. The US is still stuck in Iraq. Who then?
Iran will be more confident than ever.

What Israel could do is open negotiations with Syria. Each has something the other wants. Give them back the Golan heights and then you’ll really have cut off their main supply lines.

Israel will cut their supply lines.

Hesbollah doesn’t have the patience to wait. A cease fire will not last a month.

The US is hardly stuck. A minor country like Belgium gets stuck, superpowers do not. The bloody nose will be given by the US or a US led coalition.

Your leader, the Iranian President, suggested last night that the Jews be given a homeland in Europe. How about Belgium? The Europeans buy into most of the Iranian arguments, perhaps this one wil haved some merit with the European appeasment crowd.

hedo,

I didn’t agree with your analysis of the situation. I pointed out where I didn’t. I didn’t mention your leader neither did I comment on his intelligence or lack thereof.

In his urge to give everybody a bloody nose, your leaders seems to have succeeded in giving himself one, and now the Israeli. You might want to distance yourself a bit from him.

That being said, let’s just stick to the facts ok?

Israel went in to get the 2 kidnapped soldiers back. That was the official reason. And they saw a chance to destroy or disarm Hezbollah.
Neither goal was achieved. So Israel lost.
That must mean the other guy won. The other guy, that would be Hezbollah. You might not like them, but that doesn’t change the facts. They stood up to the IDF and held their ground.
That makes them popular in the area.

On the other side, their stock op missilis is probably largely depleted. They need to regroup and resupply. If the Israeli can prevent the resupply part, there might be a small victory in there after all. But how do you cut their supply lines. You can block the ports, but that might be hard to sell. You can’t bolster the Lebenase governemnt while in the same time blocking their ports.
The dislocated people will be moving south soon. The Lebenase army will take positions in the south. So will the UN-force. In short, there will be lots of movement directed south. Hezbollah will use this to trickle south also.

Of course, Syria is the key. Hezbollah’s supply routes run through Syria. Syria is not very fond of Hezbollah, but they’re usefull to keep pressure on Israel. Syria wants is Golan heights back. There are UN resolutions that they should get them back. So why not give them back in exchange for Hezbollah having it’s suply lines cut. Kills 2 birds with 1 stone. You take Syria out of the equation and weaken Hezbollah.

Hezbollah is in no shape to push further. Their stocks are low, their fighters are exhausted. Plus they have their victory. Why risk loosing there victory by pushing further?

The US is stuck. The bulk of the army is in Iraq, unable to disengage. That’s called “being stuck”. You might not like it, but that doesn’t change the fact. Minor countries don’t get stuck. They pull out. The can afford the embarresement, they’re small countries after all. Big countries get stuck. The US got stuck in Korea and Vietnam. The USSR got stuck in Afghanistan.

If Bush is foolish enough to insist on an invasion in Iran, the generals will draw straws. And the unlucky one that draws the shortest straw, will have to use his side-arm to arrest him.

My leader is not the Iranian president. I don’t know what he said last night and I don’t care.

Your turn now.[/quote]

Unfortunately you make assumptions that are not true or blatantly false and then expect a rational argument around them.

The “bulk” of the army is not stuck in Iraq. The bulk of the army is not even delployed in Iraq. Look it up. Stuck is a matter of opinion, not fact.

You side with the Islamo-Facism position in almost every post. The Iranian president is the titular head of the movement at this point. He certainly is the leader of the idealogy that you subscribe and argue for. You side with that idealogy and to deny that is blatantly false.

Israel is certainly able to cut supply lines. I don’t think they will have an issue making attacks on smugglers at the Lebanase border.

Hesbollah capabilities have been greatly degraded. The Israeli’s will continue attacking them and further reducing their capability. Hesbollah, as I stated before, will not have the patience to wait. Nasrallah may even be hit at some point and that will certainly set them off.

By the way if they are going to honor UN resolutions then certainly the one that put Israel in the Middle East is valid and has presedence. Kind of cuts your argument apart since the sword cuts both ways.

As to warning Iran, both Israel and the US have the ability to project military power. The Iranian Air Force and Navy could be eliminated in less then 48 hrs. by the US. That’s a bloody nose. If an invasion ever followed it would most likely be with the assistance of the many secular parties that exist in that country. More Afganistan then Iraq.

Iran is a major issue in the Middle East right now. The US will not allow them to get nukes. They cannot be trusted based on public statements they have made. Once the blinders come off it makes perfect sense. Unfortunately Europe has been blinded for many years and is now too weak too act. Too bad. They’ll hit Europe before the US.

If you simply disagree on the facts then people would rationally debate with you. Unfortunately you are a Bush hating, Jew bating anti-American, and seem rather proud of it. It colors every post you make and this one is no different. Re-read some of your posts. You have a burning need to hurl insults as facts and then wonder why you are roundly dismissed by most of the posters here.

[quote]BH6 wrote:

Wreckless wrote:
If Bush is foolish enough to insist on an invasion in Iran, the generals will draw straws. And the unlucky one that draws the shortest straw, will have to use his side-arm to arrest him.

Your turn now.

Wreck,
Sometimes you come up with some pretty off the wall stuff. This was too crazy not to comment on. I apologize for the hijack.

[/quote]

Well, it was a bit tongue in cheek, I must admit.

You made really good points hedo. I think Israel’s IDF could definitely do more than ‘bloody-nose’ Hezbollah. Hezbollah are the enemy of peace. Why is that proposition so unplacable?

Because they kill so many more than resposnible, just to prove their point. I really hope you don’t infer i’m an Islamo-fascist for pointing out that that definition could also ‘cut both ways’.

I don’t think the UN has the answer. Well, it has the answer, but it isn’t the answer. justthefacts made a whole huge post of UN resolutions saying ‘get out of the west bank etc’, and the UN can say ‘no more suicide bombings, that’s an order’ as much as it wants, it won’t achieve shit.

I agree Iran can’t be trusted to have nukes, that alsnlisbwqj president guy seems fucking unstable and militant. I think he has a very wicked past too.

I really don’t believe (despite shit in the news recently) that Britain is more of a target, or even an equal target, to the US. The US is ‘satan’, remember?

You guys need to worry when you get on a bus or train or aeroplane, and massive measures must be taken daily just to deter terrorist attacks on your state.

Just a question- who do you feel can be trusted to have nukes. So many contentious situations have had nukes introduced. Israel had them, and almsot used them in 1967. Pakistan-India. China and Russia have them. But which is the only country to have fired them in anger?

If you can see this objectively, it seems like the gloves are off. That is not an apology for terrorism. It’s an analysis.

Pearl Harbour was cowardly, pre-emptive, terrorist, whatever you wish to define it as. The response was not an example to be followed, in my opinion.

I wish that military operations were discreet and surgical enough that we almost missed them. Some well-armed jews or Americans/whoever, sneaking in, cutting out the vile nucleus, and fucking off again. Is that not possible? I’m not in the military so i’m not sure. But i bet it is.

What do you think?

Here we go again.

[quote]hedo wrote:
The “bulk” of the army is not stuck in Iraq. The bulk of the army is not even delployed in Iraq. Look it up. Stuck is a matter of opinion, not fact. [/quote]
Of, for every soldier in Iraq, you need one in the US getting ready to be deployed over there, and you have one just returned from Iraq who would like to spent some time at home. So you need 3 soldiers to get 1 set of boots on the ground in Iraq.

http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/news/news-iraq-usa-alaska.html
US Sending 300 Newly Returned Troops Back to Iraq
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - About 300 U.S. soldiers who just weeks ago returned home to Alaska after a year in Iraq are being ordered back to try to help bolster security in Baghdad, the U.S. Army said on Monday.

Stuck in Iraq? Who? Us? No way ! ! !

[quote] You side with the Islamo-Facism position in almost every post.
[/quote]
No I don’t. I simply point out the facts and explain cause and effect. Sun Tzu claimed it would be wise to know something about your ennemy. You prefer to live in a world of blisfull ignorance.

yawn

[quote]
Israel is certainly able to cut supply lines. I don’t think they will have an issue making attacks on smugglers at the Lebanase border.[/quote]
Israel would be able to attack smugglers on the Lebanese-Syrian border. That would be an awesome trick. They would pull out of Lebanon, they’re pulling out now, and yet they would be able to attack smugglers on the Lebanese-Syrian border. Without violating Syrian airspace of course. And the smugglers would have been kind enough to stand a bit apart from civilians, so there wouldn’t be any colateral damage.
Dream on hedo.

[quote]
Hesbollah capabilities have been greatly degraded. The Israeli’s will continue attacking them and further reducing their capability. [/quote]
No they won’t. The cease fire seems to be holding out. Both parties agreed to a cease fire. Why would they do that if they intend to keep attacking each other.

[quote]
Hesbollah, as I stated before, will not have the patience to wait. Nasrallah may even be hit at some point and that will certainly set them off.[/quote]
So who do you think is going to break the cease fire first? The Israeli or Hezbollah? Make up your mind hedo.

yawn again.

However.

In the mean time.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/16/world/middleeast/16hezbollah.html?th&emc=th

[i]BEIRUT, Lebanon, Aug. 15 ? As stunned Lebanese returned Tuesday over broken roads to shattered apartments in the south, it increasingly seemed that the beneficiary of the destruction was most likely to be Hezbollah.

A major reason ? in addition to its hard-won reputation as the only Arab force that fought Israel to a standstill ? is that it is already dominating the efforts to rebuild with a torrent of money from oil-rich Iran.

Nehme Y. Tohme, a member of Parliament from the anti-Syrian reform bloc and the country?s minister for the displaced, said he had been told by Hezbollah officials that when the shooting stopped, Iran would provide Hezbollah with an ?unlimited budget? for reconstruction.

In his victory speech on Monday night, Hezbollah?s leader, Sheik Hassan Nasrallah, offered money for ?decent and suitable furniture? and a year?s rent on a house to any Lebanese who lost his home in the month-long war.

?Completing the victory,? he said, ?can come with reconstruction.?[/i]

Shit man, it doesn’t look like they’re gonna make the mistake you hoped for. Now what?

I’ll tell you something hedo. Decades ago I used to play chess. Official, competative chess. I was pretty good at it. Local level of course, nothing fancy. After every game we sort of rerun it with your opponent to learn from our mistakes. And every game I won easily (not many of those though), the guy on the other side would show me how he should have won if only I would have been kind enough to make all the mistakes he had planned for me.

You hope that Hezbollah will be stupid enough to overplay their hand. It’s not going to happen.

They’re going to take charge in the rebuilding of Southern Lebanon and this will increase their popularity in that area even more.

Your turn.

[quote]Wreckless wrote:
Here we go again.

hedo wrote:
The “bulk” of the army is not stuck in Iraq. The bulk of the army is not even delployed in Iraq. Look it up. Stuck is a matter of opinion, not fact.
Of, for every soldier in Iraq, you need one in the US getting ready to be deployed over there, and you have one just returned from Iraq who would like to spent some time at home. So you need 3 soldiers to get 1 set of boots on the ground in Iraq.

http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/news/news-iraq-usa-alaska.html
US Sending 300 Newly Returned Troops Back to Iraq
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - About 300 U.S. soldiers who just weeks ago returned home to Alaska after a year in Iraq are being ordered back to try to help bolster security in Baghdad, the U.S. Army said on Monday.

Stuck in Iraq? Who? Us? No way ! ! !

You side with the Islamo-Facism position in almost every post.

No I don’t. I simply point out the facts and explain cause and effect. Sun Tzu claimed it would be wise to know something about your ennemy. You prefer to live in a world of blisfull ignorance.

The Iranian president is the titular head of the movement at this point. He certainly is the leader of the idealogy that you subscribe and argue for. You side with that idealogy and to deny that is blatantly false.
yawn

Israel is certainly able to cut supply lines. I don’t think they will have an issue making attacks on smugglers at the Lebanase border.
Israel would be able to attack smugglers on the Lebanese-Syrian border. That would be an awesome trick. They would pull out of Lebanon, they’re pulling out now, and yet they would be able to attack smugglers on the Lebanese-Syrian border. Without violating Syrian airspace of course. And the smugglers would have been kind enough to stand a bit apart from civilians, so there wouldn’t be any colateral damage.
Dream on hedo.

Hesbollah capabilities have been greatly degraded. The Israeli’s will continue attacking them and further reducing their capability.
No they won’t. The cease fire seems to be holding out. Both parties agreed to a cease fire. Why would they do that if they intend to keep attacking each other.

Hesbollah, as I stated before, will not have the patience to wait. Nasrallah may even be hit at some point and that will certainly set them off.
So who do you think is going to break the cease fire first? The Israeli or Hezbollah? Make up your mind hedo.

By the way if they are going to honor UN resolutions then certainly the one that put Israel in the Middle East is valid and has presedence. Kind of cuts your argument apart since the sword cuts both ways.
Oh boy. UN resolutions. Would you like to hear the one about the Isreali retrating from the Westbank. From east-Jerusalem. From the Golan Heights. Indeed, they cut both ways.

As to warning Iran, both Israel and the US have the ability to project military power. The Iranian Air Force and Navy could be eliminated in less then 48 hrs. by the US. That’s a bloody nose. If an invasion ever followed it would most likely be with the assistance of the many secular parties that exist in that country. More Afganistan then Iraq.
You don’t get it. This was the foreplay into warning Iran. But look who has the bloody nose atm.

Iran is a major issue in the Middle East right now. The US will not allow them to get nukes. They cannot be trusted based on public statements they have made.
Well, that remains to be seen. Iran doesn’t exactly come out of this weakened, do they?

Once the blinders come off it makes perfect sense. Unfortunately Europe has been blinded for many years and is now too weak too act. Too bad. They’ll hit Europe before the US. Ha ha ! ! ! Yeah sure, believe your own propaganda why don’t you. Iran is probably a decade away from having a deployable nuclear weapon.

If you simply disagree on the facts then people would rationally debate with you. Unfortunately you are a Bush hating, Jew bating anti-American, and seem rather proud of it. It colors every post you make and this one is no different. Re-read some of your posts. You have a burning need to hurl insults as facts and then wonder why you are roundly dismissed by most of the posters here.

yawn again.

However.

In the mean time.

[i]BEIRUT, Lebanon, Aug. 15 ? As stunned Lebanese returned Tuesday over broken roads to shattered apartments in the south, it increasingly seemed that the beneficiary of the destruction was most likely to be Hezbollah.

A major reason ? in addition to its hard-won reputation as the only Arab force that fought Israel to a standstill ? is that it is already dominating the efforts to rebuild with a torrent of money from oil-rich Iran.

Nehme Y. Tohme, a member of Parliament from the anti-Syrian reform bloc and the country?s minister for the displaced, said he had been told by Hezbollah officials that when the shooting stopped, Iran would provide Hezbollah with an ?unlimited budget? for reconstruction.

In his victory speech on Monday night, Hezbollah?s leader, Sheik Hassan Nasrallah, offered money for ?decent and suitable furniture? and a year?s rent on a house to any Lebanese who lost his home in the month-long war.

?Completing the victory,? he said, ?can come with reconstruction.?[/i]

Shit man, it doesn’t look like they’re gonna make the mistake you hoped for. Now what?

I’ll tell you something hedo. Decades ago I used to play chess. Official, competative chess. I was pretty good at it. Local level of course, nothing fancy. After every game we sort of rerun it with your opponent to learn from our mistakes. And every game I won easily (not many of those though), the guy on the other side would show me how [i]he[/] should have won if only I would have been kind enough to make all the mistakes he had planned for me.

You hope that Hezbollah will be stupid enough to overplay their hand. It’s not going to happen.

They’re going to take charge in the rebuilding of Southern Lebanon and this will increase their popularity in that area even more.

Your turn.[/quote]

I am going to guess you have heard of a UAV. They’ve been in all the papers. They even have armed ones these days. They haven’t stopped the supplies in the past, they will in the future. IT was a choice, not a lack of capability. Of course they will violate Syrain airspace. Syria can’t stope them without losing a few aircraft each time and according to the resolution Syria sshouldn’t allow smuggling anyway so no repurcussion should follow right?

You sidestepped the UN question. Sure let’s obey all of them. Now the Palestinians can go away confident they will never get the disputed terroritories back? End of problem. You can’t pick and choose which one to obey. So should we obey all of them? Starting with the one that created Israel.

So let’s look at the situation objectively. Hesbollah launched most of their arsenal and killed 67 civilians. In the proicess they lost 600 of their most highly trained fighters. A UN blocking force will come in and protect Israel’s northern border. If it works teriffic. I’m sure Hesbollah will disarm and go away right? When they decide they will not and the UN decides it doesn’t want to really fight Israel will go in again. This time confident the world will let them do what it takes to end the problem.

Hesbollah’s only victory isn’t they weren’t annihilated. This is the same outcome that every Arab army has had for 60 years. They can’t militarily face Israel only raid or damage certain portions. The reprisals are always much worse. Lebabon doesn’t exist as a state any longer yet no world outcry exists. Do you really think the Lebanese are happy with Hesbollah right now?

Your information regarding US forces is factually wrong. Continuing to refute it would be silly. They may be politically hamstrung but operationally they are not. Continuing to debate it with you is counter-productive until you are up to speed and will use facts instead of rhetoric.

You use of “yawn” is curious. Examples where you don’t actually do what you are accused of would be a stronger response.

Your chess example is interesting. A little tangental as far as this argument goes however. Hesbollah has already played their hand. I’ll bet the IDF does a much more thorough evaluation of what happened. Hesbollah will suffer greatly in round two because of it.

[quote]hedo wrote:
I am going to guess you have heard of a UAV. They’ve been in all the papers. They even have armed ones these days. They haven’t stopped the supplies in the past, they will in the future. IT was a choice, not a lack of capability. Of course they will violate Syrain airspace. Syria can’t stope them without losing a few aircraft each time and according to the resolution Syria sshouldn’t allow smuggling anyway so no repurcussion should follow right?
[/quote]
So you think the UAV are not only capable of searching and destroying smugglers, they’re also capable of defending themselves against Syrian planes. Sounds more like a UFO if you ask me.
I’ll give you a fact. Belgian troops were supervising the elections in Congo recnetly. They had several UAV available. One of them was shot down by gunfire. Perhaps it was a lucky shot.

[quote]
You sidestepped the UN question. Sure let’s obey all of them. Now the Palestinians can go away confident they will never get the disputed terroritories back? End of problem. You can’t pick and choose which one to obey. So should we obey all of them? Starting with the one that created Israel.[/quote]
The Palestinians have accepted the state of Israel a long time ago. Why do you ignore this?
You can’t cherry pick the resolutions you like and ignore the ones that don’t suit you.

There are resolutions that ask Israel to leave the Westbank, pull out of eastern Jerusalem and the Golan Heights.

There are resolutions that ask the Israeli to allow international supervision to their nuclear program.

I can look up the numbers if you want, but I’d rather not.

[quote]
So let’s look at the situation objectively. Hesbollah launched most of their arsenal and killed 67 civilians. In the proicess they lost 600 of their most highly trained fighters. A UN blocking force will come in and protect Israel’s northern border. If it works teriffic. I’m sure Hesbollah will disarm and go away right? When they decide they will not and the UN decides it doesn’t want to really fight Israel will go in again. This time confident the world will let them do what it takes to end the problem. [/quote]
Hezbollah will not disarm and go away. Why would you think that? They will regroup and resupply. They will help, hell, they will lead in the rebuilding of southern Lebanon. That will restore their popularity, if it needs restoring.

You’re a bit silly in not acknowledging Hezbollah victory. I’m sure you would find ways to ignore it if they had push on toward Jerusalem and have a victory parade there.
Israel goal was to destroy them or disarm them. That didn’t happen. How would you spin this?

[quote]
Your information regarding US forces is factually wrong. Continuing to refute it would be silly. They may be politically hamstrung but operationally they are not. Continuing to debate it with you is counter-productive until you are up to speed and will use facts instead of rhetoric.[/quote]
Sure my information regarding the US army is wrong. You have plenty of divisions lingering somewhere. In the mean time we see the same troops rotating in and out of Iraq. Some of them only able to return home a couple of weeks.

You keep hoping Hezbollah will make a stupid, silly mistake that will lead to a round 2.
Hoping for your opponent to make silly mistakes, makes you a bad chess player.

Next time bring something substantial to this discussion.

Your turn.

[quote]Wreckless wrote:
hedo wrote:
I am going to guess you have heard of a UAV. They’ve been in all the papers. They even have armed ones these days. They haven’t stopped the supplies in the past, they will in the future. IT was a choice, not a lack of capability. Of course they will violate Syrain airspace. Syria can’t stope them without losing a few aircraft each time and according to the resolution Syria sshouldn’t allow smuggling anyway so no repurcussion should follow right?

So you think the UAV are not only capable of searching and destroying smugglers, they’re also capable of defending themselves against Syrian planes. Sounds more like a UFO if you ask me.
I’ll give you a fact. Belgian troops were supervising the elections in Congo recnetly. They had several UAV available. One of them was shot down by gunfire. Perhaps it was a lucky shot.

You sidestepped the UN question. Sure let’s obey all of them. Now the Palestinians can go away confident they will never get the disputed terroritories back? End of problem. You can’t pick and choose which one to obey. So should we obey all of them? Starting with the one that created Israel.
The Palestinians have accepted the state of Israel a long time ago. Why do you ignore this?
You can’t cherry pick the resolutions you like and ignore the ones that don’t suit you.

There are resolutions that ask Israel to leave the Westbank, pull out of eastern Jerusalem and the Golan Heights.

There are resolutions that ask the Israeli to allow international supervision to their nuclear program.

I can look up the numbers if you want, but I’d rather not.

So let’s look at the situation objectively. Hesbollah launched most of their arsenal and killed 67 civilians. In the proicess they lost 600 of their most highly trained fighters. A UN blocking force will come in and protect Israel’s northern border. If it works teriffic. I’m sure Hesbollah will disarm and go away right? When they decide they will not and the UN decides it doesn’t want to really fight Israel will go in again. This time confident the world will let them do what it takes to end the problem.
Hezbollah will not disarm and go away. Why would you think that? They will regroup and resupply. They will help, hell, they will lead in the rebuilding of southern Lebanon. That will restore their popularity, if it needs restoring.

Hesbollah’s only victory isn’t they weren’t annihilated. This is the same outcome that every Arab army has had for 60 years. They can’t militarily face Israel only raid or damage certain portions. The reprisals are always much worse. Lebabon doesn’t exist as a state any longer yet no world outcry exists. Do you really think the Lebanese are happy with Hesbollah right now?
You’re a bit silly in not acknowledging Hezbollah victory. I’m sure you would find ways to ignore it if they had push on toward Jerusalem and have a victory parade there.
Israel goal was to destroy them or disarm them. That didn’t happen. How would you spin this?

Your information regarding US forces is factually wrong. Continuing to refute it would be silly. They may be politically hamstrung but operationally they are not. Continuing to debate it with you is counter-productive until you are up to speed and will use facts instead of rhetoric.
Sure my information regarding the US army is wrong. You have plenty of divisions lingering somewhere. In the mean time we see the same troops rotating in and out of Iraq. Some of them only able to return home a couple of weeks.

You use of “yawn” is curious. Examples where you don’t actually do what you are accused of would be a stronger response.
No, I think yawn is the appropriate response to your silly accusations.

Your chess example is interesting. A little tangental as far as this argument goes however. Hesbollah has already played their hand. I’ll bet the IDF does a much more thorough evaluation of what happened. Hesbollah will suffer greatly in round two because of it.

You keep hoping Hezbollah will make a stupid, silly mistake that will lead to a round 2.
Hoping for your opponent to make silly mistakes, makes you a bad chess player.

Next time bring something substantial to this discussion.

Your turn.[/quote]

Brainless,

It is pointless to debate with you. You cannot keep your arguments straight and you are intellectually dishonest and obviously inferior in more ways then I can name. Dishonesty for the sake of argument seems to be your most prominent trait.

When you yawn over this make sure to open wide and swallow.

You make things up and then state them as facts. Much like a child.

You have sufficently bored me. Go back to stroking the precious murdering fucks that hold sway with your tiny intellect. It’s just too easy and pointless at this point.

When you have studied and read up on the subject you can try again. But come back with better manners and a more humble attitude. You have had your ass handed to you by about a 1/2 doz. people on this thread. Have some shame.

“The Belgian Congo” will be the answer to any further criticism of the USA by our lovely Belgian fascist.

Hedo,

It seems you have a habit of declaring victory where there is none. And seeing defeat where there is none.

If you want to talk about global politics and strategies, that is most disturbing.

Regards,
Wreckless