Israeli Strike Kills Hamas Leader

Thank you for clarifying this.

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

[quote]shorty_blitz wrote:
“Arab hunting” I would dare you to talk like this in public. It wasn’t long ago when the kkk would go hunting for black people.
You’re supposedly meant to be living in the 21st century.[/quote]

I suspect TTR is playing with your lack of knowledge of military slang.

He served in Afganistan and Iraq. These are Persian/Pashtun peoples.

During the early part of the wars, foreign Islamists flooded the areas to fight the USA, drawn heavily from arab countries.

The USA troops would this look for “arabs” — foreigners — who didn’t belong in these Persian/Pashtun countries because they were almost inevitably terrorists.

Hence, they went “arab hunting” — and the arabs were pointed out by locals who didn’t want them around.[/quote]

The only thing I will add to this since I agree to most of it is that extremists including certain governments want this conflict to exist.

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

[quote]atypical1 wrote:
Turkey has also been a great friend in that region and has typically supported us. I’ve trained with their military and they were very professional and seemed to like Americans pretty well. The general public also seemed very friendly but this was a handful of years ago and my visit was only for a month so it might not have been a great sample. I’m not sure why we tend to ignore Turkey and their usefulness to us as a powerful ally in that region.
[/quote]

I looked through your posts and you are operating under the misunderstanding about Turkey’s recent hostility to the USA is caused by Israel.

This is false. In fact, Turkey, and, more particularly, the Ottoman Empire (with some noteable exceptions) was, on balance, a good friend of Israel, and, in fact, one of the major proponents of recent (by which I mean, post 1800) Zionism.

It actually dates back to the early 1800s, when the area of the middle east where Israel is was part of the Ottoman Empire. Back then, Israel was basically empty land, but for Jerusalem, which was held down by Hasidic Jews (who never left) and various Orthodox/Catholic sects holding down the various Christian shrines. (The mosque on the Temple Mount was more-or-less in dis-repair and unuses – it was not considered significant in Islam until the 1960s, and then for political, not religious, reasons.)

Anyways, the Ottoman Empire actively courted Jewish settlors and sold the land that is now Israel to various Zionist groups, with the idea being a Jewish state within the greater Ottoman Empire.

Idea was the land was empty, not making any money, and the Jewish immigrants would bring life to a useless part of the empire.

Various wars intervened (esp. WWI) and these plans fell apart together with the Empire.

Anyways, Turkey remained relatively friendly, with active trade and military co-operation until the last couple of years. I trained with Turkish soldiers, for example. Israel sold lots of weapons (missles, drones, improvements to their F16s, etc)to Turkey.

What happened to make Turkey hostile is misguided pressure by the USA (esp. George Bush II) and the EU for democractic reforms in Turkey. The Turkish military and ruling parties warned that Islamists would take over.

Well, the EU and USA ignored the advice of the Turkish military, et al, and the Islamists are taking over, just like they did in Iran in 1976 and Eqypt in 2012 and everywhere else this stupidity is tried.

Well, the Islamist are hostile to the USA because the USA is Western. They are hostile to Israel because the Quran says to kill and butcher Jews, and they are fundamentalist who take the Quran literally.

Has nothing to do with Israel, except we refuse to die.[/quote]

[quote]IamMarqaos wrote:

[quote]atypical1 wrote:

Nobody in Muslim countries gives a shit if you eat pork or not.

james[/quote]

Bullshit. Recently an ambassador was killed because of a satirical movie. Every time someone says something potentially wrong about Mohammed innocent people die or get threatened. A Koran burned? Innocents die. List goes on.

They give a fuck, they are just, at the moment, impotent to do anything about it on a large scale.

As Jewbacca pointed out, there are great Muslims, and I concur. I lived in a Muslim community and my room mate was a devout Muslim. But even my dear friend admitted to me recently: the majority is fucked up.

He shakes his head with deep sadness over the fact that this idiotic behavior is gaining more ground. These groups would not grow if they did not give a fuck, as you say.[/quote]

The fact of the matter is that Israel has been under attack for years from these Hamas terrorists. How many rocket attacks does it take before you have enough? How many terror attacks directly targeting civilians are you going to take before you do something about it.

The fact that Gaza is a shithole is purely their own fault. They have two mandates to have complete peace and stability in the region. Renounce terror and recognize Israel’s right to exist. They do that, and it’s all over. They will have their own state government, peace, security and many countries willing to invest and give them recognition. They have two very, very, very easy requirements. The fact is that they are racist bigots and would rather starve and die with their hate than live in peace with a neighbor they hate. They would rather starve their children and put them in harms way, rather than simply make peace. The entire basis for all the problems their are racism and bigotry on the part of the Palestinians.
For some very weird reason, that seems to be ok with way to many people… Hamas is the KKK in the Arab world. And the most peacnik anti-bias people in the western world are the ones who support them the most, blindly, with out a single requirement of them. Israel should just give in do whatever they want.
Fuck’em, they are doing this to themselves.

sadly one of the faults of my lefty brethren is that we tend to worship the “underdog”, in 1948 that was the Jews moving in to Israel, but after they pimp slapped the local Arab world over the next 60 years we seem to have found a soft spot for the poor victimized Palestinian people, when the fact is they, and their supporters have brought it on themselves.
Far be it from me to ever agree with Pat but:

“The fact is that they are racist bigots and would rather starve and die with their hate than live in peace with a neighbor they hate. They would rather starve their children and put them in harms way, rather than simply make peace.”

that quote is pretty dead on. When I was in the Army I remember meeting some horrible people from 3rd world countries (mostly South America), but at least they made some sense with what they did, there was an achievable, mutually acceptable endgame available where everybody on one side didn’t have to die, they just had to agree to accept _________. That is the problem in the middle east, nobody is willing to accept that Israel has a right to survive, and until someone figures out a way to live in peace with the Jews next door, they will continue getting all blown to hell.

[quote]BrianHanson wrote:

I often hear people say that Israel “overreacts”, but seriously wouldn’t you? You are a people that have been hunted to near extinction for like 2000 years, and less than 70 years ago someone killed 2/3rds of the Jews in Europe, this may make you a bit pro-active in terms of defense, but it’s warranted.
[/quote]

Some good posts from you here man.

[quote]Marzouk wrote:
My best friend is in the British army and has done 3 tours in the middle east, so i will by no mean belittle the military and what happens out there. Obviously a lot of hatred for muslims stems from your experience there. [/quote]

Two contradictory statements here. Good job on being ignorant.

Please show proof of this. Before Egypt started persecuting Christians they had 8 million Christians. Now, there was a mass exodus of Copts out of Egypt. So, how can 8 million + mass exodus equal 10 million?

[quote]Marzouk wrote:

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

Pew Research (2010): 84% of Egyptian Muslims support the death penalty for leaving Islam

World Public Opinion: 81% of Egyptians want strict Sharia imposed in every Islamic country

Pew Research (2010): 77% of Egyptian Muslims favor floggings and amputation

Pew Research (2010): 82% of Egyptian Muslims favor stoning adulterers[/quote]

Ball’s in your court, Marzouk.

But let me guess… The research is flawed, or it’s all a Western lie, right?[/quote]

The research is probably accurate. So? How does this effect anyone else? You don’t have to live by these laws so why do you care?

If someone asked me in poll ‘do you support the death penalty’ and i said yes, does that make me an extremist muslim? [/quote]

Um…death penalty and death penalty for leaving my religion are two different things.

[quote]atypical1 wrote:

[quote]Legionary wrote:
The undue influence of AIPAC on American Foreign Policy.
Also, Evangelicals seem to believe that a strong Israel is required so that Christ can return during the second coming.

BTW, I’m not a pussy pacifist. I’m an IR Realist, and fully support Israel’s right to defend itself militarily. [/quote]

I’m with you on this. I fully support their right to defend themselves and we should absolutely trade with them. But we definitely should not favor them more than any other country especially considering that they are a pretty minor trading partner.

james
[/quote]

This is like advocating not favoring Spain over the Aztecs. They are barbarians who are not only destructive to themselves but anyone who comes into contact with them.

Are you referring to the Aztecs or Spaniards? Both were pretty destructive to themselves and those around them.

james

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]BrianHanson wrote:

I often hear people say that Israel “overreacts”, but seriously wouldn’t you? You are a people that have been hunted to near extinction for like 2000 years, and less than 70 years ago someone killed 2/3rds of the Jews in Europe, this may make you a bit pro-active in terms of defense, but it’s warranted.
[/quote]

Some good posts from you here man.[/quote]

Agreed…

Israel is in the unfortunate position of fighting a (mostly) fair fight against somebody who is fighting dirty.

[quote]atypical1 wrote:
Are you referring to the Aztecs or Spaniards? Both were pretty destructive to themselves and those around them.

james[/quote]

x2 I was thinking the same thing

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]BrianHanson wrote:

I often hear people say that Israel “overreacts”, but seriously wouldn’t you? You are a people that have been hunted to near extinction for like 2000 years, and less than 70 years ago someone killed 2/3rds of the Jews in Europe, this may make you a bit pro-active in terms of defense, but it’s warranted.
[/quote]

Some good posts from you here man.[/quote]

Agreed…

Israel is in the unfortunate position of fighting a (mostly) fair fight against somebody who is fighting dirty.[/quote]

That is exactly what I think everytime I think of Israel.

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]BrianHanson wrote:

I often hear people say that Israel “overreacts”, but seriously wouldn’t you? You are a people that have been hunted to near extinction for like 2000 years, and less than 70 years ago someone killed 2/3rds of the Jews in Europe, this may make you a bit pro-active in terms of defense, but it’s warranted.
[/quote]

Some good posts from you here man.[/quote]

Agreed…

Israel is in the unfortunate position of fighting a (mostly) fair fight against somebody who is fighting dirty.[/quote]

That is exactly what I think everytime I think of Israel.[/quote]

This is true regarding its conventional forces at least. Not that I have a problem with the rest. Its fairly obvious that Mossad is behind the assassination of Iranian nuclear physicists. Keep up the good work I say.

You know brian, I actually enjoy reading your posts when you don’t go all VTballa on the rightsiders and start slinging insults and shit (granted Zeb gets on nerves. He does that more than most, even with me and I almost never argue with him).

We need posts that give a different view. Even if I think it’s completely cockamamie lol. But you are really dead on in your posts here man. Interesting you bring up the underdog point, I never thought of that.

[quote]Legionary wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]BrianHanson wrote:

I often hear people say that Israel “overreacts”, but seriously wouldn’t you? You are a people that have been hunted to near extinction for like 2000 years, and less than 70 years ago someone killed 2/3rds of the Jews in Europe, this may make you a bit pro-active in terms of defense, but it’s warranted.
[/quote]

Some good posts from you here man.[/quote]

Agreed…

Israel is in the unfortunate position of fighting a (mostly) fair fight against somebody who is fighting dirty.[/quote]

That is exactly what I think everytime I think of Israel.[/quote]

This is true regarding its conventional forces at least. Not that I have a problem with the rest. Its fairly obvious that Mossad is behind the assassination of Iranian nuclear physicists. Keep up the good work I say.[/quote]

Haha, definitely true. If there were one nation I could pick to NOT get nukes, it would be Iran. Pakistan a close second lol.

[quote]Aragorn wrote:

[quote]Legionary wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]BrianHanson wrote:

I often hear people say that Israel “overreacts”, but seriously wouldn’t you? You are a people that have been hunted to near extinction for like 2000 years, and less than 70 years ago someone killed 2/3rds of the Jews in Europe, this may make you a bit pro-active in terms of defense, but it’s warranted.
[/quote]

Some good posts from you here man.[/quote]

Agreed…

Israel is in the unfortunate position of fighting a (mostly) fair fight against somebody who is fighting dirty.[/quote]

That is exactly what I think everytime I think of Israel.[/quote]

This is true regarding its conventional forces at least. Not that I have a problem with the rest. Its fairly obvious that Mossad is behind the assassination of Iranian nuclear physicists. Keep up the good work I say.[/quote]

Haha, definitely true. If there were one nation I could pick to NOT get nukes, it would be Iran. Pakistan a close second lol.[/quote]

Unfortunately they already possess 90-110 nuclear weapons. The atmosphere in Pakistan is vehemently anti-American.

Pakistan has had nukes for some time. I understand that they are also working on a nuclear sub which is also quite scary.

The situation reminds me of this dude I knew at Walter Reed (a hospital). We were pretty much stuck there for a while, but I was mobile after a couple weeks, but had to hang around for what is called “debridement” on some burns.

Well, this guy was in a wheelchair, was going to be for life, and had a bum arm, to boot. Bad off.

Well he would talk shit all day, do shit like come into the break room and just change the channel when we were all watching a game, cut in line, throw shit, grab nurses’s asses, do stuff like take a shit so the nurses had to clean it up, etc. He (white guy) was always saying the most obnoxious racial shit about blacks, mexicans, Indian doctors, etc. Complete ASSHOLE.

One day, I had enough. We exchanged words, but I was like, “What am I going to do?” Beat the shit out of the cripple?

We finally rolled his wheelchair out of the break room and barred the door with a chair leg. He pounded on in for 2 hours.

Anyway, the pali’s are like the cripple. You can’t live with them, you can’t beat them like they need to be beaten.

So, what is Israel to do? They’ve literally had more bombs dropped on them in the last couple of years than London during the WWII. Think about that for second. What was England and America’s reponse to the Blitz?

Can the Israelis carpet bomb the Palis like we did Dresden in Nazi Germany?

Drive them into the sea like they swear they will do the Israelis?

Or is there a happy medium? Is there a hallway they can push them to and lock the fucking door?

I’m serious, what is the end game? How can you make irrational idiots stop doing irrantional shit?

[quote]thethirdruffian wrote:
The situation reminds me of this dude I knew at Walter Reed (a hospital). We were pretty much stuck there for a while, but I was mobile after a couple weeks, but had to hang around for what is called “debridement” on some burns.

Well, this guy was in a wheelchair, was going to be for life, and had a bum arm, to boot. Bad off.

Well he would talk shit all day, do shit like come into the break room and just change the channel when we were all watching a game, cut in line, throw shit, grab nurses’s asses, do stuff like take a shit so the nurses had to clean it up, etc. He (white guy) was always saying the most obnoxious racial shit about blacks, mexicans, Indian doctors, etc. Complete ASSHOLE.

One day, I had enough. We exchanged words, but I was like, “What am I going to do?” Beat the shit out of the cripple?

We finally rolled his wheelchair out of the break room and barred the door with a chair leg. He pounded on in for 2 hours.

Anyway, the pali’s are like the cripple. You can’t live with them, you can’t beat them like they need to be beaten.

So, what is Israel to do? They’ve literally had more bombs dropped on them in the last couple of years than London during the WWII. Think about that for second. What was England and America’s reponse to the Blitz?

Can the Israelis carpet bomb the Palis like we did Dresden in Nazi Germany?

Drive them into the sea like they swear they will do the Israelis?

Or is there a happy medium? Is there a hallway they can push them to and lock the fucking door?

I’m serious, what is the end game? How can you make irrational idiots stop doing irrantional shit?[/quote]

Two state solution hopefully. Seems like a pipe dream right now regrettably.

[quote]atypical1 wrote:
Are you referring to the Aztecs or Spaniards? Both were pretty destructive to themselves and those around them.

james[/quote]

Referring to the Spaniards civilizing the Aztecs in a certain period of time in which they and the Church are highly critized. I don’t remember the Spaniards tearing out the hearts of thousands of their own young men for appeasement to one of their imaginary gods. Unless of course you look to modern Spain in which they gladly sacrifice their helpless children to Moloch. Understandable confusion.