[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
lixy wrote:
And for a good reason: The Palestinians are the ones suffering and dying in large numbers.
I write that there are no publicly dissenting Palestinian leaders because Hamas would amke sure of it and you reply “and for a good reason”…?
Could you be more transparent? [/quote]
Read again. I disagreed with the idea that Hamas has anything to do with Palestinians considering Israel as anything but the aggressor.
[quote]To say that they got dispossessed is not a “complete fabrication”. It’s the truth starring you right in the eye. And as much as it must pain you to admit it, it’s just like the Native Americans and so many others.
They weren’t “dispossessed” - there was no Palestinian nation prior to Israel, and whatever sovereign claims Muslim nations had over the area, they lost in war. Palestinians were encouraged to leave and then denied sanctuary in Arab nations. Pathetic. [/quote]
Screw Arab nations! This is about the Palestinian people being chased out of their lands, denied self-determination rights and dying by the boatload under Israeli bombs.
And enough with this “Palestinians were encouraged to leave” line! The ones that feared for their lives fled and the others remained. It’s as simple as that.
[quote]Not in this case. By parroting Washington’s Israel-good-the-rest-bad line, you became more royalist than the king himself.
And this is why you are routinely regarded as a fool - an “appeal to authority” is a logical fallacy, not a description of whose opinion you agree with.
Look it up - that’s on your to-do list along with “straw man”. [/quote]
Technically, it is a logical fallacy. But my arguments doesn’t stop at because-he-said-so. I referenced the Israeli leader’s statement about the Palestinian “pogrom” to counter the idea that Israel was the victim. It seemed appropriate given your “fabrication” reply.
[quote]What I suggested, if anything, was that there weren’t many “Arab nations” around when Zionists started kicking out Palestinians. The crushing majority was under occupation.
Horseshit, Lixy - some of these same nations you claim that were “occupied” immediately started a war with Israel. Now, tell me - how could they be under the yoke of their occupying colonial masters that favored Israel and attack Israel at the same time? [/quote]
The keyword here being “some”. The rest had no sovereignty to speak of.
The majority of those nations were bound by arbitrary lines in the dirt drawn by the colonial powers. A lot of them have been at war with each other for those reasons. But that’s nothing compared to the artificial state that completely changed the demographics of the region with a massive influx of Europeans into other people’s lands.
I’m more concerned about the Palestinians shattered to bits as we speak.
Your perception counts for squat.
[quote]And I pointed out to the fact that - again, the crushing majority - of the regimes in those nations are Washington-backed dictatures to show that your argument is absurd.
Laughable, but when have you made any sense? If these nations had “Washington-backed dictatures”, they wouldn’t - couldn’t - have taken the posture against Israel they have since the Jewish state’s inception. [/quote]
What are you? Stupid?
Washington didn’t give a shit about Israel up until the late 60s.
Go read the recent declarations of the Arab puppets of Washington. They’re more vocal about the so-called Iranian threat than they are about the hundreds of innocent Palestinians.
Leaderships change, you moron!
At least try to make some sense. You are the one making generalizations. All I did was mitigate your certitudes that Israel is the victim in the story.
Let’s get down to it. What “treatment of Palestinians”? Who is bombing the Palestinians?
[quote]Who’s appealing to authority now?
Moron, I am appealing to your authority, one that you would consider a proper validation. [/quote]
No. You are appealing to the authority of an undemocratic unrepresentative institution that has no business giving away other people’s lands.
No argument there.
However, is it right that the Palestinians pay for what the Germans did to the Jews? No.
[quote]Sheesh…the inhabitants of Palestine have been under the boot of the Ottoman Empire. And by some strainously idiotic association, you try to argue that they are the imperialists.
Palestinians as imperialists? I never said such. They are the footstools of Muslim imperialists who only care about them because they provide a grievance against Israel. [/quote]
If we agree that the Palestinians are the victims, then who’s the aggressor?
And me, supporting Peace on Earth.
Neither of those is going to happen.
[quote]Not really surprising coming from the guy who justifies the fate of the indigenous American people.
I never justified it, I just noted that the history is complicated, not a Chomskyite three act play with easy good and bad guys. You are ignorant of the history - just like you are ignorant of most history. [/quote]
Wait…there’s no “easy good and bad guys” with regards to the colonization of Native Americans?
Anyway, I suggest you apply this to Israel and the Occupied Territories.
[quote]It’s got nothing to do with the fact that Israel’s military capacity is a million-fold more powerful than theirs. It’s all for propanda purposes.
This is a red herring - Israeli military capability has nothing to do with the fact that Hamas deliberately targets civilians and tries to put civilians in harms’ way.
Isn’t always a hoot how you refuse to address this atrocity, and instead sidestep it with irrelevant nonsense? [/quote]
The extreme differences in military power is far from “irrelevant”. This is the very same reason the Corsicans or Basques blow up people.
When the status quo is in your favor and you’ve got the big guns, why would you sit down and talk?
[quote]“Islamists”, as you like to call them, are for all intents and purposes the choice the Palestinian people have made through fair and transparent elections. Despair will do that. At this point, it is obvious that Israel’s strategy towards the Occupied Territories is only fueling local support Hamas. Yet, they keep at it. They’re the ones who rejected the French-sponsored proposal for a 48-hours truce.
No, Palestinians continue to opt for outfits like Hamas due to miseducation and ignorance - a deliberate choice made to keep them in the dark. They will emerge and get wise to the nonsense you and your “Progressist-Islamists” spout - that your course leads to nothing but slaughter and a filthy, poor existence. It’s coming, and it is overdue.[/quote]
Hamas didn’t spur up in a vacuum. The movement is a result of decades of putting up with oppression, violence and humiliation suffered by the Palestinian people.
[quote]For the last time, who on Earth are these “Muslim nations”? And by what feat are they turning the Palestinian people into “disposable pawns”?
Pick one, it doesn’t matter, it is defined by their stance against Israel - and what “feat”? Asked and answered - instead of assisting Palestinians, giving them physical sanctuary or education, they keep them poor and stupid and the blame Israel for the poverty and stupidity.[/quote]
You’re the one making generalizations, amalgamating Palestinians with Arabs and/or Muslims, then when called on it, cook up a giant strawman.
Answer the question.
Your stupidity is making my head hurt.
Compared to the Palestinians, every other country is “successful, prosperous, and happy”. And yes, that includes neighbors of Israel.
[quote]There is no “hope for salvation” as far as the Palestinians are concerned. This has been about revenge ever since I can remember. It’s about making Israel pay for the bomb that killed your child, mother or best friend. It’s not like they’ll suddenly stop procreating…
No, there is - as soon as they reject the culture of barbarism and learn that they have been used, they’ll take a turn for the better. [/quote]
And 400 Palestinians this week died of natural causes.
Get a clue!
[quote]There is no consensus, nor has there ever been one in Lebanon over the Palestinians. So stop speaking of the country as a monolithic bloc. More importantly, how is Lebanon the Palestinians’ “own country”? If they did “gehttoize”[sic] them, it’s because of what the massive influx of refugees cost the place. Then there’s their peculiar political system and the position the Phalangists and their cronies occupy in it.
A sniveling sidestep on the problem you won’t admit to. Palestinians are treated horribly by neighboring Muslim states, and there is enough “consensus” that their situation is awful. [/quote]
Ok. But again, who’s blowing them to bits and pieces?
Refusing to hand out citizenships is hardly comparable to the treatment the Palestinians endure under Israel.
Who spoke of “a crime against humanity”? I’m saying that the dead, maimed and displaced Palestinians are originally caused by Israel.
It’s so obvious, I’m amazed you’re making an argument out of it.
Ditto.
[quote]“Culutral humiliation”[sic]? How is that relevant?
Because one of the most relevant reasons to hate Israel is its constant reminder of its prosperity while Muslim nations backslide into regression. [/quote]
Let me guess…you also think Huntington’s jibber-jabber is insightful?
[quote]This is a conflict about land, and the neighbouring nations are paying the cost because of the displaced people. Those are the stakes here.
No, the stakes are greater, because the land isn’t large or worth very much - the stake is the direction of Palestinian peoples and their culture: will they have a chance at a better life, or will they continue to cling to the barbarism? [/quote]
“The land isn’t large”? Go tell that to the crammed inhabitants of Gaza.
[quote]“Muslims intentionally target civilians”? As opposed to whom? Christians? Jews? Scientologists? What on Earth are you raving about?
Look at Lixy again, trying to deflect the horrid truth about Muslim extremists and their deliberate targeting of civilians. [/quote]
Deflect what? Jews intentionally target civilians. Christians intentionally target civilians. Muslims intentionally target civilians.
Why bring up religion in a nationalist struggle topic?
[quote]The underdog is using guerilla tactics? I’m shocked! SHOCKED I tell you!
I don’t know which is worse - that you misunderstand guerilla tactics, or that you refuse to condemn the atrocities.
Well, I do know what is worse.
So enthralled with the “underdog”, you’ll sanction just about anything. Notice how you never said targeting civilians was wrong - damning. [/quote]
Where did I sanction the use of violence?
I just expressed surprise at the notion that you expect Palestinians to
go after F-16s.