[quote]lixy wrote:
There’s a profusion of images despite Tel-Aviv banning journalists from entering Gaza.
[/quote]
Israel now allows journalists in. That means you can post more pictures. Then maybe, just maybe, you can stop whining.
Or do you just want things to go back as they where, when the only area under attack was Israel?
[quote]lixy wrote:
archiewhittaker wrote:
"But the root cause of what the millions of Palestinian refugees went (and are still going) through remains Israel. "
That argument, […]
Are you actually challenging that notion
Seriously, you don’t see me attaching pics of the victims of Palestinians while arguing that the root cause of utter stupidity on this planet is Palestine.
No, I do not. That case would be hard to make, regardless of accompanying media.[/quote]
Would be simple enough to prove to anybody who studies human intelligence/cognitive abilities/EI.
Remember, it was Einstein,Russell and Chomsky, not El-Alawi,Abadi or Hussein, and for a reason. Nobody ever raved about how smart the Palestinians are.
(BTW,those were just random names, don’t nit-pick)
[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
lixy wrote:
I suppose you know better than the Israeli head of state that spoke of a “pogrom” to describe what his fellow citizens were doing to the Palestinians.
Let’s see, so the “score” would be “even” if I can find an Arab Muslim taking my side? [/quote]
No.
The score would be even if you could find a Palestinian elected leader who agrees with you on that “fabrication” bit.
[quote]Good Lord - you are now suggesting that the same Arab nations that immediately went to/supported war with Israel are unkind to Palestinians because they are in cahoots with the US and Britain?
The same ones? [/quote]
I am “now” asking a question.
But it’s nice to see the lengths you’d go to when called on your generalizations.
Agreed.
No, you dimwit!
The root cause has got to be Israel since it predates the desire of those “barbarians” (how little has the imperialistic lingo changed!) hell-bent on destroying it.
I would have swore Israel was the one “disposing” of those “pawns” by dropping bombs.
Again, what are these “Arab nations” you speak of? You seem to be under the impression that Lebanon or Jordan has “zero incentive” to get peace on their borders. Worse, you seem to think that the dozen Arab nations have common interests and strategic goals.
Not fair.
I don’t think any of them would have given a shit had the “Jewish state” been located in Bavaria or Patagonia.
Remind me again. Who exactly is breaking Palestinian skulls and shattering their limbs as we speak?
It’s all clear now. It’s the fault of the Palestinians who spent their time growing olives last century instead of creating a “nation”.
Heck, it’s their fault that they got colonized in the first place! Those slobs couldn’t even get big guns.
Are rocket launchers military targets?
[quote]lixy wrote:
The score would be even if you could find a Palestinian elected leader who agrees with you on that “fabrication” bit.[/quote]
No such elected leader exists or would exist publicly - Hamas would have him killed.
The larger point, missed by you, is that your naked appeal to authority is meaningless.
[quote]I am “now” asking a question.
But it’s nice to see the lengths you’d go to when called on your generalizations.[/quote]
It’s not a “generalization”, twerp - Arab nations have treated Palestinians like second-class human beings, and you are trying to - bizarrely - suggest that these Arab nations do so because they are in cahoots with the US and Britain.
The same nations that have been denying Palestinians refuge in the country since the “exodus” are the same ones that have aggressive postures toward Isreal…you know, Israel? The country that the US unequivocally backs?
My God - think of all the trust fund money you wasted on your education.
[quote]No, you dimwit!
The root cause has got to be Israel since it predates the desire of those “barbarians” (how little has the imperialistic lingo changed!) hell-bent on destroying it.[/quote]
Incorrect - the barbarians wanted to destroy Israel since its inception, even though a multilateral UN decision validated its existence.
Muslims of varying ethnicities simply can’t stand the thought of a Jewish state in their midst - which, interestingly, was a land conquered first by Muslims (but no lengthy screeds over the awfulness of that from you, curiously), and then lost outright by the misadventures of the Ottoman Empire.
Palestine gained and lost by the double-sided blade of imperialism, you and your brethren have the audacity to now claim the territory has been wrongly co-opted by
“imperialism”? When Muslims both won and lost it originally through the same kind of imperialism?
No, it isn’t garden-variety “imperialism” that so offends Muslims in the area - after all, they have no general distaste for “imperialism”, only a dislike for it when it harms their perceived cultural birthrights (no one else’s). No, the problem isn’t “imperialism” - the problem is the presence of a state of Jews on “their” property.
What you swear is pointless, given your intellectual dishonesty - Israel targets military spots. Of course, the shame is that Islamists deliberately try and put civilians in harm’s way.
You and I both know why they do it - it fuels propaganda. You know damn well this is an intentional tactic, and then start menstruating as if civilians are being intentionally targeted.
It’s obvious for anyone to see - how do you do it with a straight face?
Palestinians are the fungible pawns of the Muslim nations - they don’t mind nudging them into the slaughter if it means more theatre against Israel.
Sad, and perhaps one day, the Palestinians will realize that the Western nations are their sole hope for salvation and a better life. But, the enormous obstacle in the way of that realization? The barbarians keep them uneducated - for if the Palestinians figured out the game, it would hamstring the war against Israel.
The only common goal we need to recognize is that of eradication of Israel. Arab nations - including Jordan and Lebanon - can have peace on their borders. But they choose something else by refusing to side with Israel against the barbarians or aiding the Palestinians.
Glad you chose Lebanon, only reinforces my point - Lebanon treats Palestinians like manure…even Amnesty International is outraged at the treatment. If Lebanon was so concerned over the “plight” of Palestinians, why gehttoize them and treat them like lepers in their own country?
Your game is up - obfuscation aside, Muslim nations don’t want peaceful, friendly relations with a neighbor-state of Israel.
[quote]Not fair.
I don’t think any of them would have given a shit had the “Jewish state” been located in Bavaria or Patagonia.[/quote]
“Not fair”? It’s always a little embarrassing to see you whine like a child.
Of course they wouldn’t care - the culutral humiliation wouldn’t be on the doorstep. They have no interest in tolerance - they preach the opposite. Shameful, of course, that the one maxim of Human Rights is supposed to be Tolerance, and there isn’t a ghost of it in Muslim cultures - and the unfolding psychodrama with Israel is nothing more than one more demonstration of barbarism.
Your attempts at sentimental claptrap are lost on me, worm - you and I both know Muslims intentionally target civilians: tell me, Lixy, what exactly are nail bombs supposed to accomplish other than shredding human flesh? Are they just desigend to get attention?
I will tell you exactly who is breaking Palestinian skulls and shattering their limbs - Hamas, by embedding themselves in civilian areas for maxmimum human casualty.
That, is evil be any definition - and you should hang your head in shame that you tolerate it.
It’s the fault of living by the sword and dying by it - Muslims gained supremacy in the area through conquest, and lost it through war.
And the Palestinians shouldn’t be faulted for much initially - the poor suckers had no idea what Muslim nations were going to do to them. They are culpable for not rejecting “Progressist-Islamism”, but that is a function of their terrible education and the propaganda they are fed.
Given a chance to immerse themselves in things Western, get a decent education (that doesn’t involve the
Protocols of Zion") they will learn to reject the nonsense you and others pollute their minds with. Then we will see peace come to the Middle East - but not until then.
They didn’t get “colonized” - the land was lost in war (seeya, Ottoman Empire) and then the nation-state of Israel was created and recognized by the UN…you know, that international body of action you would swear was the ultimate international authoriy if the UNSC voted against a military action by the US.
My word, Lixy - here we are again at the end of a response to one of your idiotic rants with you demonstrating you are nothing but a cur and a useful dupe . Surely you must get tired of it all?
[quote]lixy wrote:
thunderbolt23 wrote:
A complete fabrication.
I suppose you know better than the Israeli head of state that spoke of a “pogrom” to describe what his fellow citizens were doing to the Palestinians.
Arab nations encouraged “Palestinians” to leave the area only to close their countries to the exodus, thus manufacturing a “refugee crisis” with convenient blame to Israel.
What Arab nations? The ones that were under British rule? Or the ones that currently pledge allegiance to the United States? Who?
I do agree that what Arabs have done only exacerbated the situation. But the root cause of what the millions of Palestinian refugees went (and are still going) through remains Israel.
If you want an education on the plight of Palestinians, go read up on their status in Arab countries.
Yes. Those evil “Arab countries” are bombing the Palestinians into oblivion.
Mythmaking seems to be the hobby du jour of the juvenile Left.
Hasty generalizations and cataloging remain yours.[/quote]
Yes, lixy, we all get to see the parades of Arab children when they get accidentally bombed. These dead children are nothing more than a prop in the perpetual Islamic war against the Jew. We never see these pictures though, do we:
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/pictures/PalestinianChildAbuse/
About all you need to see to judge how much Arabs in Palestine care about their children. They’re suckled with hate from infancy.
[quote]lixy wrote:
Meh. I prefer Chomsky. Much stronger intellect.
That blowhard? He is a master of the fluff words. He can write for pages and say nothing.
He has convinced groups of people that he is smart, apparently by using big words, and stretching single line concepts to pages of drivel.
[quote]sherekahn wrote:
Also, how do you negotiate with people who start out by saying you have no right to exist? Sort of renders the rest of the
conversation futile.[/quote]
There is one fundamental point you seem to be missing.
Israel hasd no “right” to exist. The people living in Israel do, but Israel was basically built on stolen land.
Now that is true for any state that exists and with 200 nukes Israel is going nowhere, but let´s stop pretending that those who say that Israel has no right to exist would not have a point.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
SirenSongWoman wrote:
Rockscar wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
Again- until both make concessions, we shouldn’t support either side.
And I’m saying this is impossible based on their religious beliefs and teachings and Anti-Semitism in the entire region.
To claim there should be no support from the US to Isreal, or either side for that matter, is irresponsible and negligent at best.
Agreed.
Anti-semitism… yea, if someone kicked me out of my house, with the full backing of a blindly loyal and powerful ally (that would be US) I’d be “anti” the other guys, too.
The creation of Israel after WWII started with noble intentions but quickly evolved into a bunch of rich, spoiled, entitled European and American Jews throwing their weight around. They arrived and immediately began kicking (what we now call) Palestinians out of their homes, taking over their land and property. Pretty much what was done to the THEM during the Holocaust, proving that, though the uniforms may change, history really does repeat. In the end, anti-semitism RESULTED. It’s less about religious hatred than a convenient way to identify The Other Guys.
How would some of the people here feel if powerful forces knocked on their doors and told them and everyone they know that they must vacate so their property could be handed over as reparation to a newly arrived people? It’s still happening. I know I’d fight like Hell but maybe that’s just me. Before you say that, for whatever reason, Israel was destined to be born and the Jewish people have some sort of divine right (Because The Bible, written by MEN, says so? Please.), picture this: Centuries from now, the population of the American Indian has ballooned tremendously, they have a powerful foreign ally, and they want their ancestral territory back. So they start kicking your descendants out and taking over. You say now, well, the land WAS essentially stolen from them and they were pushed onto reservations, even though this eventually happens to every great civilization. Now, imagine YOU, and everyone you know, are being pushed out of your homes and forced to live like unwelcome guests on the only land you have ever known. How do you like it? How would YOU react? Still not persuaded? Well, when American Indians push your descendants out of their homes and take over I’m betting THEY’LL get it.
You could use a serious history refresher course to remind you exactly what Palestine was in 1917 when the modern Israeli state was first designed. It was sparsely inhabited by mainly nomadic tribes. Its inhabitants which included Jews drifted in and out of what is now Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, and Egypt. The area had been ruled for centuries by the Ottoman empire.
There was no nation/country of Palestine. The Jews did not just wade in and start slaughtering and evicting its inhabitants. That is a myth.
Many modern Palestinians immigrated there from surrounding countries in modern times. In many cases, they were unwanted and evicted by surrounding Arab nations.
It saddens me to see so many misinformed people jumping into a debate like this when they are truly clueless about history. The combination of a worthless American educational system and lazy people that don’t care to know their history sure does make for a lot of nonsense. It also makes for opinions that are of no value in a debate like this one.[/quote]
So stealing from farmers is bad, but stealing from nomads is a-ok?
[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
lixy wrote:
The score would be even if you could find a Palestinian elected leader who agrees with you on that “fabrication” bit.
No such elected leader exists or would exist publicly - Hamas would have him killed.
The larger point, missed by you, is that your naked appeal to authority is meaningless.
I am “now” asking a question.
But it’s nice to see the lengths you’d go to when called on your generalizations.
It’s not a “generalization”, twerp - Arab nations have treated Palestinians like second-class human beings, and you are trying to - bizarrely - suggest that these Arab nations do so because they are in cahoots with the US and Britain.
The same nations that have been denying Palestinians refuge in the country since the “exodus” are the same ones that have aggressive postures toward Isreal…you know, Israel? The country that the US unequivocally backs?
My God - think of all the trust fund money you wasted on your education.
No, you dimwit!
The root cause has got to be Israel since it predates the desire of those “barbarians” (how little has the imperialistic lingo changed!) hell-bent on destroying it.
Incorrect - the barbarians wanted to destroy Israel since its inception, even though a multilateral UN decision validated its existence.
Muslims of varying ethnicities simply can’t stand the thought of a Jewish state in their midst - which, interestingly, was a land conquered first by Muslims (but no lengthy screeds over the awfulness of that from you, curiously), and then lost outright by the misadventures of the Ottoman Empire.
Palestine gained and lost by the double-sided blade of imperialism, you and your brethren have the audacity to now claim the territory has been wrongly co-opted by
“imperialism”? When Muslims both won and lost it originally through the same kind of imperialism?
No, it isn’t garden-variety “imperialism” that so offends Muslims in the area - after all, they have no general distaste for “imperialism”, only a dislike for it when it harms their perceived cultural birthrights (no one else’s). No, the problem isn’t “imperialism” - the problem is the presence of a state of Jews on “their” property.
I would have swore Israel was the one “disposing” of those “pawns” by dropping bombs.
What you swear is pointless, given your intellectual dishonesty - Israel targets military spots. Of course, the shame is that Islamists deliberately try and put civilians in harm’s way.
You and I both know why they do it - it fuels propaganda. You know damn well this is an intentional tactic, and then start menstruating as if civilians are being intentionally targeted.
It’s obvious for anyone to see - how do you do it with a straight face?
Palestinians are the fungible pawns of the Muslim nations - they don’t mind nudging them into the slaughter if it means more theatre against Israel.
Sad, and perhaps one day, the Palestinians will realize that the Western nations are their sole hope for salvation and a better life. But, the enormous obstacle in the way of that realization? The barbarians keep them uneducated - for if the Palestinians figured out the game, it would hamstring the war against Israel.
Again, what are these “Arab nations” you speak of? You seem to be under the impression that Lebanon or Jordan has “zero incentive” to get peace on their borders. Worse, you seem to think that the dozen Arab nations have common interests and strategic goals.
The only common goal we need to recognize is that of eradication of Israel. Arab nations - including Jordan and Lebanon - can have peace on their borders. But they choose something else by refusing to side with Israel against the barbarians or aiding the Palestinians.
Glad you chose Lebanon, only reinforces my point - Lebanon treats Palestinians like manure…even Amnesty International is outraged at the treatment. If Lebanon was so concerned over the “plight” of Palestinians, why gehttoize them and treat them like lepers in their own country?
Your game is up - obfuscation aside, Muslim nations don’t want peaceful, friendly relations with a neighbor-state of Israel.
Not fair.
I don’t think any of them would have given a shit had the “Jewish state” been located in Bavaria or Patagonia.
“Not fair”? It’s always a little embarrassing to see you whine like a child.
Of course they wouldn’t care - the culutral humiliation wouldn’t be on the doorstep. They have no interest in tolerance - they preach the opposite. Shameful, of course, that the one maxim of Human Rights is supposed to be Tolerance, and there isn’t a ghost of it in Muslim cultures - and the unfolding psychodrama with Israel is nothing more than one more demonstration of barbarism.
Remind me again. Who exactly is breaking Palestinian skulls and shattering their limbs as we speak?
Your attempts at sentimental claptrap are lost on me, worm - you and I both know Muslims intentionally target civilians: tell me, Lixy, what exactly are nail bombs supposed to accomplish other than shredding human flesh? Are they just desigend to get attention?
I will tell you exactly who is breaking Palestinian skulls and shattering their limbs - Hamas, by embedding themselves in civilian areas for maxmimum human casualty.
That, is evil be any definition - and you should hang your head in shame that you tolerate it.
It’s all clear now. It’s the fault of the Palestinians who spent their time growing olives last century instead of creating a “nation”.
It’s the fault of living by the sword and dying by it - Muslims gained supremacy in the area through conquest, and lost it through war.
And the Palestinians shouldn’t be faulted for much initially - the poor suckers had no idea what Muslim nations were going to do to them. They are culpable for not rejecting “Progressist-Islamism”, but that is a function of their terrible education and the propaganda they are fed.
Given a chance to immerse themselves in things Western, get a decent education (that doesn’t involve the
Protocols of Zion") they will learn to reject the nonsense you and others pollute their minds with. Then we will see peace come to the Middle East - but not until then.
Heck, it’s their fault that they got colonized in the first place! Those slobs couldn’t even get big guns.
They didn’t get “colonized” - the land was lost in war (seeya, Ottoman Empire) and then the nation-state of Israel was created and recognized by the UN…you know, that international body of action you would swear was the ultimate international authoriy if the UNSC voted against a military action by the US.
My word, Lixy - here we are again at the end of a response to one of your idiotic rants with you demonstrating you are nothing but a cur and a useful dupe . Surely you must get tired of it all?[/quote]
Bravo sir. Extremely well put.
Wow Lixy, what a beating, eh? Glad I had a good seat…
[quote]archiewhittaker wrote:
Israel now allows journalists in. That means you can post more pictures. Then maybe, just maybe, you can stop whining.[/quote]
Nope. Both foreign and local journalists are forbidden from crossing into Gaza by decision of the Israeli government.
[quote]archiewhittaker wrote:
lixy wrote:
archiewhittaker wrote:
"But the root cause of what the millions of Palestinian refugees went (and are still going) through remains Israel. "
That argument, […]
Are you actually challenging that notion
Seriously, you don’t see me attaching pics of the victims of Palestinians while arguing that the root cause of utter stupidity on this planet is Palestine.
No, I do not. That case would be hard to make, regardless of accompanying media.
Would be simple enough to prove to anybody who studies human intelligence/cognitive abilities/EI.
Remember, it was Einstein,Russell and Chomsky, not El-Alawi,Abadi or Hussein, and for a reason. Nobody ever raved about how smart the Palestinians are.
(BTW,those were just random names, don’t nit-pick) [/quote]
Piss off!
Fucktards like you give Mankind (and Jews) a bad name.
[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
lixy wrote:
The score would be even if you could find a Palestinian elected leader who agrees with you on that “fabrication” bit.
No such elected leader exists or would exist publicly [/quote]
And for a good reason: The Palestinians are the ones suffering and dying in large numbers. They are the ones stranded on a blockaded, air-raided, strip of land that’s one the most populous areas in the world.
To say that they got dispossessed is not a “complete fabrication”. It’s the truth starring you right in the eye. And as much as it must pain you to admit it, it’s just like the Native Americans and so many others.
Not in this case. By parroting Washington’s Israel-good-the-rest-bad line, you became more royalist than the king himself.
[quote]It’s not a “generalization”, twerp - Arab nations have treated Palestinians like second-class human beings, and you are trying to - bizarrely - suggest that these Arab nations do so because they are in cahoots with the US and Britain.
The same nations that have been denying Palestinians refuge in the country since the “exodus” are the same ones that have aggressive postures toward Isreal…you know, Israel? The country that the US unequivocally backs? [/quote]
What I suggested, if anything, was that there weren’t many “Arab nations” around when Zionists started kicking out Palestinians. The crushing majority was under occupation.
And I pointed out to the fact that - again, the crushing majority - of the regimes in those nations are Washington-backed dictatures to show that your argument is absurd.
[quote]No, you dimwit!
The root cause has got to be Israel since it predates the desire of those “barbarians” (how little has the imperialistic lingo changed!) hell-bent on destroying it.
Incorrect - the barbarians wanted to destroy Israel since its inception, even though a multilateral UN decision validated its existence. [/quote]
Who’s appealing to authority now?
The only way Israel’s inception would have ever been validated was through a referendum.
[quote]Muslims of varying ethnicities simply can’t stand the thought of a Jewish state in their midst - which, interestingly, was a land conquered first by Muslims (but no lengthy screeds over the awfulness of that from you, curiously), and then lost outright by the misadventures of the Ottoman Empire.
Palestine gained and lost by the double-sided blade of imperialism, you and your brethren have the audacity to now claim the territory has been wrongly co-opted by
“imperialism”? When Muslims both won and lost it originally through the same kind of imperialism?
No, it isn’t garden-variety “imperialism” that so offends Muslims in the area - after all, they have no general distaste for “imperialism”, only a dislike for it when it harms their perceived cultural birthrights (no one else’s). No, the problem isn’t “imperialism” - the problem is the presence of a state of Jews on “their” property. [/quote]
Yes, yes. More amalgams please! We’re in short supply lately.
Sheesh…the inhabitants of Palestine have been under the boot of the Ottoman Empire. And by some strainously idiotic association, you try to argue that they are the imperialists.
Not really surprising coming from the guy who justifies the fate of the indigenous American people.
[quote]I would have swore Israel was the one “disposing” of those “pawns” by dropping bombs.
What you swear is pointless, given your intellectual dishonesty - Israel targets military spots. Of course, the shame is that Islamists deliberately try and put civilians in harm’s way.
You and I both know why they do it - it fuels propaganda. You know damn well this is an intentional tactic, and then start menstruating as if civilians are being intentionally targeted. [/quote]
It’s got nothing to do with the fact that Israel’s military capacity is a million-fold more powerful than theirs. It’s all for propanda purposes.
Get it.
“Islamists”, as you like to call them, are for all intents and purposes the choice the Palestinian people have made through fair and transparent elections. Despair will do that. At this point, it is obvious that Israel’s strategy towards the Occupied Territories is only fueling local support Hamas. Yet, they keep at it. They’re the ones who rejected the French-sponsored proposal for a 48-hours truce.
[quote]It’s obvious for anyone to see - how do you do it with a straight face?
Palestinians are the fungible pawns of the Muslim nations - they don’t mind nudging them into the slaughter if it means more theatre against Israel. [/quote]
For the last time, who on Earth are these “Muslim nations”? And by what feat are they turning the Palestinian people into “disposable pawns”?
There is no “hope for salvation” as far as the Palestinians are concerned. This has been about revenge ever since I can remember. It’s about making Israel pay for the bomb that killed your child, mother or best friend. It’s not like they’ll suddenly stop procreating…
[quote]Again, what are these “Arab nations” you speak of? You seem to be under the impression that Lebanon or Jordan has “zero incentive” to get peace on their borders. Worse, you seem to think that the dozen Arab nations have common interests and strategic goals.
The only common goal we need to recognize is that of eradication of Israel. Arab nations - including Jordan and Lebanon - can have peace on their borders. But they choose something else by refusing to side with Israel against the barbarians or aiding the Palestinians. [/quote]
Israelis can have peace on their borders if only they’d side with the Lebanese against the barbarians (T’sahal in this case) and if they aided the Palestinians by allowing them to get a viable state.
There is no consensus, nor has there ever been one in Lebanon over the Palestinians. So stop speaking of the country as a monolithic bloc. More importantly, how is Lebanon the Palestinians’ “own country”? If they did “gehttoize”[sic] them, it’s because of what the massive influx of refugees cost the place. Then there’s their peculiar political system and the position the Phalangists and their cronies occupy in it.
[quote]Not fair.
I don’t think any of them would have given a shit had the “Jewish state” been located in Bavaria or Patagonia.
“Not fair”? It’s always a little embarrassing to see you whine like a child.
Of course they wouldn’t care - the culutral humiliation wouldn’t be on the doorstep. [/quote]
“Culutral humiliation”[sic]? How is that relevant?
This is a conflict about land, and the neighbouring nations are paying the cost because of the displaced people. Those are the stakes here.
[quote]Remind me again. Who exactly is breaking Palestinian skulls and shattering their limbs as we speak?
Your attempts at sentimental claptrap are lost on me, worm - you and I both know Muslims intentionally target civilians: tell me, Lixy, what exactly are nail bombs supposed to accomplish other than shredding human flesh? Are they just desigend to get attention? [/quote]
“Muslims intentionally target civilians”? As opposed to whom? Christians? Jews? Scientologists? What on Earth are you raving about?
This is about Israel and the Occupied Territories.
The underdog is using guerilla tactics? I’m shocked! SHOCKED I tell you!
[quote]It’s all clear now. It’s the fault of the Palestinians who spent their time growing olives last century instead of creating a “nation”.
It’s the fault of living by the sword and dying by it - Muslims gained supremacy in the area through conquest, and lost it through war. [/quote]
Yes. Clearly the Palestinians were all about supremacy when the Turks and the British put them under their boot.
[quote]And the Palestinians shouldn’t be faulted for much initially - the poor suckers had no idea what Muslim nations were going to do to them. They are culpable for not rejecting “Progressist-Islamism”, but that is a function of their terrible education and the propaganda they are fed.
Given a chance to immerse themselves in things Western, get a decent education (that doesn’t involve the
Protocols of Zion") they will learn to reject the nonsense you and others pollute their minds with. Then we will see peace come to the Middle East - but not until then. [/quote]
There will never ever be peace in that region. The Israelis realize that. The Palestinians realize that. They’re simply killing each other with the illusion that it will weaken the enemy.
[quote]Heck, it’s their fault that they got colonized in the first place! Those slobs couldn’t even get big guns.
They didn’t get “colonized” - the land was lost in war (seeya, Ottoman Empire) and then the nation-state of Israel was created and recognized by the UN…you know, that international body of action you would swear was the ultimate international authoriy if the UNSC voted against a military action by the US.
My word, Lixy - here we are again at the end of a response to one of your idiotic rants with you demonstrating you are nothing but a cur and a useful dupe . Surely you must get tired of it all?[/quote]
I can’t possibly take you seriously. You’re holding the fact that the Palestinians were “poor suckers” as an excuse for every abuse that happened to them. You’re unwilling to admit that they were colonized.
For a nice read on Israeli politics, the premises behind the foundation of the zionist state in the Middle East etc., I would recommend a book: The Founding Myths Of Modern Israel by Roger Garaudy. It can provide a background for the current situation as well.
[quote]lixy wrote:
And for a good reason: The Palestinians are the ones suffering and dying in large numbers. [/quote]
I write that there are no publicly dissenting Palestinian leaders because Hamas would amke sure of it and you reply “and for a good reason”…?
Could you be more transparent?
They weren’t “dispossessed” - there was no Palestinian nation prior to Israel, and whatever sovereign claims Muslim nations had over the area, they lost in war. Palestinians were encouraged to leave and then denied sanctuary in Arab nations. Pathetic.
And don’t bring the American Indians into it - I already think you are a dim-witted, half-educated fool, and your lack of understanding that history will just make you humiliate yourself further.
And this is why you are routinely regarded as a fool - an “appeal to authority” is a logical fallacy, not a description of whose opinion you agree with.
Look it up - that’s on your to-do list along with “straw man”.
Horseshit, Lixy - some of these same nations you claim that were “occupied” immediately started a war with Israel. Now, tell me - how could they be under the yoke of their occupying colonial masters that favored Israel and attack Israel at the same time?
It’s looking bad for you, Lixy.
Laughable, but when have you made any sense? If these nations had “Washington-backed dictatures”, they wouldn’t - couldn’t - have taken the posture against Israel they have since the Jewish state’s inception.
Flatly impossible, and you should be embarrassed. If the US were in control of these Arab nations as you suggest, there wouldn’t have been a single aggressive action against Israel since its inception.
You piddle along with convenient fictions that serve only to create a narrative you like - that in some romantic way, the atrocities the Muslim nations have on their hands are somehow, some way the fault of the US. Now, you have reached the zenith of stupidity by suggesting that Muslim nations’ abhorrent treatment of Palestinians is a result of their being “controlled” by the West.
Anyone reading this knows how dumb that argument is - I pity you. I also get it - you need to deflect the shame of the treatment of Palestinians at the hands on Muslim nations, so like an irresponsible child, you try and wedge the US into it.
My God, Lixy - you don’t even make sense any more. Wait, nevermind - you didn’t before.
Moron, I am appealing to your authority, one that you would consider a proper validation.
I am demonstrating that Israel became a country via the most legitimate means we have in the known universe.
Translation: Lixy doesn’t have an answer.
Palestinians as imperialists? I never said such. They are the footstools of Muslim imperialists who only care about them because they provide a grievance against Israel.
I have always been on record as supporting a Palestinian state.
I never justified it, I just noted that the history is complicated, not a Chomskyite three act play with easy good and bad guys. You are ignorant of the history - just like you are ignorant of most history.
This is a red herring - Israeli military capability has nothing to do with the fact that Hamas deliberately targets civilians and tries to put civilians in harms’ way.
Isn’t always a hoot how you refuse to address this atrocity, and instead sidestep it with irrelevant nonsense?
No, Palestinians continue to opt for outfits like Hamas due to miseducation and ignorance - a deliberate choice made to keep them in the dark. They will emerge and get wise to the nonsense you and your “Progressist-Islamists” spout - that your course leads to nothing but slaughter and a filthy, poor existence. It’s coming, and it is overdue.
Pick one, it doesn’t matter, it is defined by their stance against Israel - and what “feat”? Asked and answered - instead of assisting Palestinians, giving them physical sanctuary or education, they keep them poor and stupid and the blame Israel for the poverty and stupidity.
The Muslim world needs Palestinians to be downtrodden, filthy, and poor - if they were successful, prosperous, and happy, it would prove that co-existence with Israel would be tolerable…and we know that Muslim nations can’t afford to lose that propaganda war.
No, there is - as soon as they reject the culture of barbarism and learn that they have been used, they’ll take a turn for the better.
A sniveling sidestep on the problem you won’t admit to. Palestinians are treated horribly by neighboring Muslim states, and there is enough “consensus” that their situation is awful.
If Israelis ghettoize Palestinians, it’s a crime against humanity - if Lebanon ghettoize Palestinians, note the chaneg in your answer: “well, no consensus…the politics are complicated…the cost of refugees…”
Such shameful dithering. I am embarrassed for you.
And, if Muslim nations are so upset by a refugee crisis flooding their states, they shouldn’t have encouraged the exodus in the first place.
Because one of the most relevant reasons to hate Israel is its constant reminder of its prosperity while Muslim nations backslide into regression.
No, the stakes are greater, because the land isn’t large or worth very much - the stake is the direction of Palestinian peoples and their culture: will they have a chance at a better life, or will they continue to cling to the barbarism?
Look at Lixy again, trying to deflect the horrid truth about Muslim extremists and their deliberate targeting of civilians.
You know it and I know it, and everyone reading knows it. Grow up.
I don’t know which is worse - that you misunderstand guerilla tactics, or that you refuse to condemn the atrocities.
Well, I do know what is worse.
So enthralled with the “underdog”, you’ll sanction just about anything. Notice how you never said targeting civilians was wrong - damning.
Let’s have an accounting:
-I use Reason and History, and I take the side of Human Rights
-You invent wild fictions, semi-conspiracy theories (see Arab Nations treat Palestinians bad because their Western lords make them), provide philosophical cover to the worst act of human atrocities we have in modern times (targeting civilians), and above it all, you act in bad faith while arguing
You are a joke, Lixy, especially around these forums - but I suspect you have learned to live with it this long, it’s unlikely that you will change.
[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
So enthralled with the “underdog”, you’ll sanction just about anything. Notice how you never said targeting civilians was wrong - damning.
[/quote]
Lixy has been backed into defending the use of children to plant roadside bombs. And, at times has excused the non-uniformed combatant hiding amongst the populace. His arguement being that their enemy is just too powerful. I paraphase “What do you expect them to do, fight on an open battlefield against a superior force?!” That’s curiuos.
Well, why don’t we hear, “What do you expect them to do, take out the Islamists, the launchers, the ammo dumps, the tunnels, the snipers, the suicide bomber cell, the leaders, the foot soldiers, deliberately hidden within the populace without killing civilians?!”
Exactly, there are no good and bad guys. The attacking civilians is a crime, but Israel is no different. I’ m just thinking of Deir Jassin and many other instances. Hell, people like Shamir, Ben Gurion or Rudolf Kastner collaborated well betwen the two world wars and even during the war with fascist italy and nazi Germany in order to evacuate pure blood Jewish people ( as in Jews witch didn’ t mix with the indigineous European inhabitants.
he zionist actually helped Germany from an economic point of view ( The Haavara Company ) shortly after the NSDAP took over. No wonder since the founders of the state of Israel and the state itself has a chauvinistic policy pretty mutch based on racial hygiene. For example, Beghin is regarded as a national hero in Israel.
Israel wouldn’ t be as prosperous if it weren’ t for American financial and military aid over the years + financial compensations from a defeated Germany.
What I am trying to say is that the state of Israel isn’ t better than any islamist faction/ state and saying that Israel is the untouched virgin fighting off barbarism is biased and wrong.
[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
From the Hamas Charter:
[i]“Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it.”
"The Islamic Resistance Movement believes that the land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf consecrated for future Moslem generations until Judgement Day. It, or any part of it, should not be squandered: it, or any part of it, should not be given up. "
“There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors.”
"[Peace] initiatives, the so-called peaceful solutions, and the international conferences to resolve the Palestinian problem, are all contrary to the beliefs of the Islamic Resistance Movement. For renouncing any part of Palestine means renouncing part of the religion; the nationalism of the Islamic Resistance Movement is part of its faith, the movement educates its members to adhere to its principles and to raise the banner of Allah over their homeland as they fight their Jihad: ‘Allah is the all-powerful, but most people are not aware.’"
“After Palestine, the Zionists aspire to expand from the Nile to the Euphrates. When they will have digested the region they overtook, they will aspire to further expansion, and so on. Their plan is embodied in the “Protocols of the Elders of Zion”, and their present conduct is the best proof of what we are saying.”[/i]
http://www.palestinecenter.org/cpap/documents/charter.html
[/quote]
Thanks for posting that. I wish more people would get the message. I love how they try to justify their mission by referencing the ‘Protocols of the Elders of Zion,’ proven to be a forgery and hoax.