[quote]lixy wrote:
Maybe they’d have an economy if they stopped wasting their time in goading Israel to bomb their infrastructures to shit.
Then what? How are they going to get jet fighters in Gaza when even bread and water goes through Israeli checkpoints?
[/quote]
Oh so the Israeli’s are letting the Qaasam rockets, plastic explosives and AK47’s through their checkpoints? Who knew!
If poke a bear with a stick enough, it’s going to eventually fight back with unequal force.
i <3 Israel.
they dont give a shit, theyre like a caged pitbull who is getting poked by people sticks and eventually it gets out of its cage and bites one of the fuckers.
i guess those fuckers dont like it when bombs land on them, huh?
i hope Israel just takes on the whole middle east.
I’m curious, Lixy…
What should have been the “reasonable” Israeli response…offer to sit down with HAMAS and break Challah over Matzah Ball soup and cabbage?
The carnage is horrible…but it is a response that every one, certainly in the Middle East, knows and understands…
Every act will be met with one that is 100-fold…
Again…what should have been the “reasonable” Israeli response to continued daily missle attacks?
Mufasa
[quote]Mufasa wrote:
I’m curious, Lixy…
What should have been the “reasonable” Israeli response…offer to sit down with HAMAS and break Challah over Matzah Ball soup and cabbage?
The carnage is horrible…but it is a response that every one, certainly in the Middle East, knows and understands…
Every act will be met with one that is 100-fold…
Again…what should have been the “reasonable” Israeli response to continued daily missle attacks?
Mufasa[/quote]
If I may? Well, to appease Hamas, the complete abandoment of Israel. For those who don’t favor Hamas and it’s goals, to ignore rockets and suicide bombings while giving the Palestinians and Arabs everything they ask for.
Some would say attacking military targets such as launchers, ammo dumps, tunnels, and enemy hideouts…Oh wait, Hamas is smarter than UN.
[quote]pookie wrote:
How many dead Israelis are needed before Israel has justification to strike back? [/quote]
All of them.
This is an EXCELLENT article - I would urge everyone to read it.
I don’t necessarily agree with everything that is written but in terms of understanding where Israel are coming from this is excellent.
[quote]JamFly wrote:
This is an EXCELLENT article - I would urge everyone to read it.
I don’t necessarily agree with everything that is written but in terms of understanding where Israel are coming from this is excellent.[/quote]
Thanks for the article, Jamfly:
This sums it all up:
“The Palestinians need only say that they will allow Israel to exist in peace. They need only say this tiny thing, and mean it, and there is pretty much nothing they cannot have”.
“Yet they will not say it. And they will not mean it. For they do not want the Jews.”
“Again and again - again and again - the Palestinians have been offered a Nation State in a divided Palestine. And again and again they have turned the offer down, for it has always been more important to drive out the Jews than to have a Palestinian state”.
“It is difficult sometimes to avoid the feeling that Hamas and Hezbollah don’t want to kill Jews because they hate Israel. They hate Israel because they want to kill Jews”.
Mufasa
[quote]pat wrote:
jsbrook wrote:
No, many are not. Some people on these threads seem to have an irrational hatred of Palestinans in particular and Muslims in general akin to the hatred of Jews many Muslims have. That doesn’t help anyone. But ‘good’ Palestinians becomes a moot point when the government is a terrorist organization that intentionally targets Israeli civilains, applauds and recruits sucicide bombers, fosters a culture of martyrdom in its own people, and intentionally increases the death toll of its own people by building its military infrastructure at and launching its rockets from schools, homes, community centers, and mosques.
The fact that there are good and innocent Palestinans makes the consequences of Israel’s response all the more tragic, but it doesn’t make it any less necessary. Until Hamas is gone, Hamas rockets and mortars stop targetting Israeli civilians, and suicide bombings stop, Israel’s response is necessary. And justified. And even if it wasn’t that would still be what happens. That’s the bottom line. It’s a simple one and one people on these forums somehow keep missing.
Very eloquent. Well said.[/quote]
Thansk. Of course you saw Lixy’s response…those kind of views aren’t going away any time soon.
[quote]Mufasa wrote:
JamFly wrote:
This is an EXCELLENT article - I would urge everyone to read it.
I don’t necessarily agree with everything that is written but in terms of understanding where Israel are coming from this is excellent.
Thanks for the article, Jamfly:
This sums it all up:
“The Palestinians need only say that they will allow Israel to exist in peace. They need only say this tiny thing, and mean it, and there is pretty much nothing they cannot have”.
“Yet they will not say it. And they will not mean it. For they do not want the Jews.”
“Again and again - again and again - the Palestinians have been offered a Nation State in a divided Palestine. And again and again they have turned the offer down, for it has always been more important to drive out the Jews than to have a Palestinian state”.
“It is difficult sometimes to avoid the feeling that Hamas and Hezbollah don’t want to kill Jews because they hate Israel. They hate Israel because they want to kill Jews”.
Mufasa
[/quote]
Uh, yeah. Hasn’t this been said numerous times already? We’ve seen the Jew-hate at protests all over the world for the past two weeks, and some of you still refuse to believe where it comes from.
Orion wrote:There is one fundamental point you seem to be missing.
Israel hasd no “right” to exist. The people living in Israel do, but Israel was basically built on stolen land.
Now that is true for any state that exists and with 200 nukes Israel is going nowhere, but let´s stop pretending that those who say that Israel has no right to exist would not have a point.
Sorry to be late getting back to you. Been working out.
Actually, I agree with you, or at least that the point you are making is what makes the problem akin to the Gordian knot (sword being the only solution). Whether you choose to call the land stolen or granted
to the Jewish people by the powers that be or
reclaimed, whether you accept what the Bible says about it or not (and many Israelis don’t), whatever justification or condemnation we choose to consider,people were moved off the land and others were moved on to it. My original point remains valid, I believe: that being that you are wasting your time to sit down at the conference table with someone who is not going to give an inch. You can either acquiesece to their position or fight.
Am I wrong about that?
[quote]Mufasa wrote:
I’m curious, Lixy…
What should have been the “reasonable” Israeli response…offer to sit down with HAMAS and break Challah over Matzah Ball soup and cabbage?[/quote]
You aren’t thinking with your head.
Israel and Hamas will talk, sooner or later, and declare a truce.
You are extremely naive if you think Israel is making a dent in Hamas’ ranks and/or popularity by these bombings. The only way would be to indefinitely occupy the place. And that’s not something a country such as Israel can maintain given that virtually everybody’s in the military.
[quote]lixy wrote:
Mufasa wrote:
I’m curious, Lixy…
What should have been the “reasonable” Israeli response…offer to sit down with HAMAS and break Challah over Matzah Ball soup and cabbage?
You aren’t thinking with your head.
Israel and Hamas will talk, sooner or later, and declare a truce.
You are extremely naive if you think Israel is making a dent in Hamas’ ranks and/or popularity by these bombings. The only way would be to indefinitely occupy the place. And that’s not something a country such as Israel can maintain given that virtually everybody’s in the military.[/quote]
Are you a Politician and/or a lawyer, Lixy?
You didn’t answer the question; then accused me of things I didn’t say nor even remotely implied.
Mufasa
[quote]lixy wrote:
Mufasa wrote:
I’m curious, Lixy…
What should have been the “reasonable” Israeli response…offer to sit down with HAMAS and break Challah over Matzah Ball soup and cabbage?
You aren’t thinking with your head.
Israel and Hamas will talk, sooner or later, and declare a truce.
You are extremely naive if you think Israel is making a dent in Hamas’ ranks and/or popularity by these bombings. The only way would be to indefinitely occupy the place. And that’s not something a country such as Israel can maintain given that virtually everybody’s in the military.[/quote]
The dead terrorists killed by the IDF probably have a different opinion about the depth of the “dent” left in the
Hamas ranks. As to popularity, only the Pali’s care about that, the Israeli’s are destroying it’s effectivness.
Another point.
I would imagine that Israel goes into these campaigns conceding the public relations War.
Mufasa
[quote]lixy wrote:
Nevermind its origins. Nevermind Gaza’s demographic density. And nevermind the millions-fold difference between the military power of Israel and that of Hamas.
It’s about “goats” and “kids be damned”.[/quote]
It’s actually about the hypocrisy of denouncing the bombing of hospitals and schools when those buildings are used to hide the rocket launchers and the assailants.
The Palestinians, Hamas and Hezbollah know very well how those bombings look in the public eye. It is not by accident that they hide their fighters among the civilian population. It is exactly how you must fight an asymmetric war. It makes your troops hard to find, more difficult to eliminate; it increase “collateral damage” which the media laps up.
But don’t come crying about “those poor children” when the whole strategy depends on having them die in large numbers for PR effect.
[quote]Mufasa wrote:
Are you a Politician and/or a lawyer, Lixy? [/quote]
Name-calling now?
The only thing I “accused” you of was not thinking with your head. The rest of the argument was conditional.
You asked if I’d consider breaking Challah with Hamas a “reasonable” response, and I explained that it’s inevitable. If one accepts that premise, killing 700 people in 13 days because elections are close cannot possibly be justified.
[quote]lixy wrote:
You are extremely naive if you think Israel is making a dent in Hamas’ ranks and/or popularity by these bombings.[/quote]
First Israel’s response was exaggerated; now they’re not making a dent?
How can Israel be exaggerating if they’re not even prodding Hamas into reviewing its strategy or base goals?
If the current bombing effort simply leads to more of the same, it would seem that the effort must be increased. If you have a million-fold advantage, it seems stupid to pull back before the other side cries “uncle.”
I’ve been to Israel upwards of 20 times,
seen fighting in Gaza from a relatively safe
vantage point (on previous occasions, not this latest one), had a car bomb go off to
close to my hotel for comfort and nobody on either side asked my opinion. If you are there you can get hurt/killed no matter who you are sympathetic to.
Reminded me of Vietnam. You might have a peace sign on your helmet but when they started shooting at you, you shot back.
This conflict won’t go away any time soon.
[quote]lixy wrote:
Mufasa wrote:
Are you a Politician and/or a lawyer, Lixy?
Name-calling now?
You didn’t answer the question; then accused me of things I didn’t say nor even remotely implied.
The only thing I “accused” you of was not thinking with your head. The rest of the argument was conditional.
You asked if I’d consider breaking Challah with Hamas a “reasonable” response, and I explained that it’s inevitable. If one accepts that premise, killing 700 people in 13 days because elections are close cannot possibly be justified.[/quote]
And how would one do this since Hamas doesn’t even recognize Israel as existing. How do you declare truce with nothing…Perhaps, Israel should just send in their own suicide bombers and daily rocket attacks…That would be tit-for-tat. Would that be ok with you? That would be matching force. Send in as many missiles as Hamas does.
I?d say Hamas is pretty dented right now?I suppose they thought that if they start war with Israel, the Jesus would come down from Heaven and slaughter all the Jews and kill the anti-Christ, who some believe to be Obama.
I guess they must be pretty disappointed right now that that didn?t happen.
[quote]pookie wrote:
lixy wrote:
You are extremely naive if you think Israel is making a dent in Hamas’ ranks and/or popularity by these bombings.
First Israel’s response was exaggerated; now they’re not making a dent?
How can Israel be exaggerating if they’re not even prodding Hamas into reviewing its strategy or base goals?
If the current bombing effort simply leads to more of the same, it would seem that the effort must be increased. If you have a million-fold advantage, it seems stupid to pull back before the other side cries “uncle.”
[/quote]
Exactly.
The Palestinians may not be getting what they deserve, I don’t wish them any harm really, but they are getting exactly what they asked for. How many more missile attacks was Israel going to take? How many should they take?