Israel: Give Me A Motive!

[quote]GDollars37 wrote:
Peter Hitchens (nothing like his brother) speaks sense:

"Since we were already arguing about the Middle East, I thought I’d devote a special section of this week’s posting to the Gaza outbreak, still under way as I write. Here it is. Even though all the usual suspects, the Judophobes, the diplomats, the gullible liberals, say that what Israel is doing now in Gaza is wrong, it really is wrong.

My position, as a strong supporter of Israel in general, is that Israel’s action is wrong morally and gravely mistaken politically. Attacks from the air always kill innocents. It is no good pleading that you regret such deaths, when you knew perfectly well that your actions were bound to cause them. This was equally true of our own adventures in Iraq and Serbia, and is true of American bombing in Afghanistan. Israel’s moral position is seriously weakened by the deaths of these innocents, and also by the flanneling and evasion of its spokesmen over this.

And just because the usual anti-Israel voices squeak that the action is ‘disproportionate’ ( as squeak they will, since for them Israel can never do anything right) Israel and its uncritical defenders should not assume that the word is out of place. The rocketing of Israeli civilians by Hamas is a repellent form of terrorist murder. But the bombing of Gaza by F-16s, subjecting huge numbers of civilians to the maddening terror of aerial attack, not to mention the tragedies concealed within the phrase ‘collateral damage’ is what exactly? Yes, you can argue that the Hamas rockets are specifically intended to kill innocent people, as they are, whereas the F-16s are targeting Hamas militants. But, see above, even the smartest bomb cannot choose exactly who will be in range of its blast, shrapnel and heat. Those who ordered the bombing knew for certain that women and children, and other non-combatants, would die and be maimed. The difference between the two actions is nothing like as great as Israel would like to believe.

Also, what is the point of this brainless flailing? Does anyone in Jerusalem really imagine that, if a few hundred Hamas militants are killed, there will be no replacements for them? Does anyone really think that anything short of a re-occupation of parts of Gaza (at enormous human and political cost, and probably unsustainable in the long-term) will stop the rockets? My guess is that rockets will still be landing on Sderot six months from now, and that Israel’s political and moral position will by then be significantly weaker than it was before it launched this unwise assault. The action is as dim and misconceived as the blundering attack on Southern Lebanon under the same leadership. Both have no clear, achievable purpose. Both are propaganda gifts to the enemies of Israel, who are immensely skilled at portraying this tiny, endangered country as a giant aggressor, and who have had endless help in doing so from the stupider parts of the Israeli establishment. Both will end by demoralising the Israeli armed forces and people.

My suspicion is that these actions are entirely driven by Israeli internal politics, by the general inadequacy of the current political leadership there, and also by an underlying despair - the kind of dismal dead end which sometimes drives otherwise intelligent people into doomed adventures. Demography, the rising power of anti-Israel Russia, the increasingly pro-Arab stance of the EU, the likelihood that the USA will once again demand that Israel takes the Neville Chamberlain route to unsustainable ’ land for peace’ deals, the quiet emigration of many of Israel’s brightest and best, the alarming success of Iran’s sponsorship of Hizbollah and Hamas ( a far more genuine threat to Israel than Iran’s fumbling progress towards a nuclear weapon) must have an influence. But these facts merely explain the buffoonery of the Gaza attack. They don’t excuse it."

[/quote]

Anybody can point out the problem, but I do not see a proposed solution…What is Israel supposed to do just sit there and take getting attacked? I am sure that is what many would like to see, but that is not a solution. If military action is not the solution than what is? Diplomacy with somebody who does not regard you as worthy of existing is some what impossible.

The solution is and has been in the Palestinian’s hands. The can stop the attacks and vow to attack no more. All of this will stop if they do this. Nope, they continue and vow more terror…Sounds to me like Israel has not choice. And I don’t see these supposed allies of Palestine coming to the rescue either. People are way to blind.

[quote]GDollars37 wrote:
jsbrook wrote:
pushharder wrote:
GDollars37 wrote:
The most hardline Israeli settlers, if you didn’t know, aren’t any better than Hamas:

"And, in one of the starkest moments documented by journalists, Israeli journalists intervened to protect a Palestinian family from Jewish rioters.

It was a moment Haaretz journalist Avi Issacharoff bluntly called “a pogrom.” Avi

“This isn’t a play on words or a double meaning,” Issacharoff wrote. “It is a pogrom in the worst sense of the word.”

“The brain requires a minute or two to digest what is taking place,” he writes of going into the house and seeing the Palestinian family under attack. "Women and children crying bitterly, their faces giving off an expression of horror, sensing their imminent deaths, begging the journalists to save their lives. Stones land on the roof of the home, the windows and the doors. Flames engulf the southern entrance to the home. The front yard is littered with stones thrown by the masked men.

The windows are shattered and the children are frightened. All around, as if they were watching a rock concert, are hundreds of Jewish witnesses, observing the events with great interest, even offering suggestions to the Jewish wayward youth as to the most effective way to harm the family. And the police are not to be seen. Nor is the army."

“I thought they were going to lynch those people,” Issacharoff later told The Globe and Mail. "I couldn’t just stand by.

“I can’t believe that people - Israelis, Jews - can sink so low and do such things,” he said."

Despicable but that is the relative rarity among Israelis. There is no way you could ever say that would be a rarity among the Palestinians if it were the other way around. Could you?

Besides being the despicable rarity, it’s denounced by the government in addition to most citizens. In Palestine it IS the government that endorses, condones, promotes, and commits the worst atrocities.

Yes and no. In Israel the government illegally put the settlers there in the first place. In Palestine Hamas is responsible for many attacks on Israel, but a lot are committed by Islamic Jihad and other independent groups.[/quote]

Where is ‘there?’ And illegal according to who? Some of the lands Israel claims extend beyond the British partition, sanctioned by the U.N. MOST of Israel was handed to them. Israel’s also offered to give up most of the disputed lands. But Palestine will not accept anything less than 100%.

[quote]pat wrote:
GCF wrote:
pushharder wrote:
GCF wrote:
pushharder wrote
I appreciate your post but you need to re-read mine. I did not write “hundreds of thousands”. Please pay attention.

Yep. I did misread your post. My bad. Although hundreds and thousands are quite clearly a minority. I have my doubts about that footage but even if it was true (i.e they were knowingly and genuinely celebrating the death of those murdered in that barbaric act) it is nothing remotely like what I experienced. I wish they had shown footage of the parts of Gaza I saw on that day. The anguish and sadness was astonishing.

The astonishing anguish and sadness you saw was indeed for the United States of America, the only true blue supporter of Israel on the planet?

It was for the people killed. Is that really so hard to believe? Do you think I am making this up? Palestinians don’t like to see innocent Americans killed just like you don’t like to see innocent Palestinians, Israelis, Iraqis, Iranians or whatever killed. Is that hard to believe? You do realize they are human beings don’t you?

I find it hard to believe. Considering the hate filled wrangle that comes from the elected leadership and the religious leadership that stirs the pot by calling for the deaths of all Israelis. The cartoons for kids to take up jihad. And the fact that the Palestinians elected the “muderous scum” is not helping me believe they are bleeding hearts for the Zionists. Why would they elect a group like Hamas into power if it were not for their hard-line stance against Israel?
[/quote]

There are lots of reasons why Hamas were elected, it wasn’t because the majority wanted military attacks on Israel though. Why would they? Just for one second put yourself in their shoes, they live an existence of fear, frustration and humiliation that you couldn’t imagine. They aren’t stupid, they know they are no match for Israel. Every suicide bomber scares they shit out of them because of the reprisals they know are coming.

Anyway. I can’t really be bothered discussing this any more with people who have no ideas of the realities of life in the Occupied Territories. Some of the poorest, densest populations on the planet. Constant fear and no certainty the necessities of life will be available to them. It’s a bad time of the year for me to have these discussions as it is almost the anniversary of the death of a friend of mine who was murdered in cold blood by an Israeli sniper.

Pat, carry on quoting statistics and strutting about like an expert on Palestinian political theory. Let me know if you even meet a Palestinian and have a discussion with them. I think you’ll be surprised that they are not raving lunatics with bombs strapped to them. But hey, whatever helps fit your worldview.

[quote]DrSkeptix wrote:
humble wrote:
DrSkeptix wrote:

2 Do you think the Saudis understand that if a bomb hits that black stone in Mecca, the basis of the religion goes with it? Perhaps this is part of their geopolitical thinking as well.

lol, then you don’t understand any religon at all if you think a ‘stones’ permanence or banishment despite it’s significance can influence the permanence or banishment of a religon.

That’s like saying, get rid of all the crucifixes and Christianity will vanish.

You misunderstand me. The hajj is one of the pillars of the faith, yes?
[/quote]

Yes it is. But the removal of it will do little to stop people from pilgrimage. It has been so from the beginning of time and before the proclamation of Islam by Muhammad and will continue so.

[quote]Sifu wrote:
humble wrote:
DrSkeptix wrote:

2 Do you think the Saudis understand that if a bomb hits that black stone in Mecca, the basis of the religion goes with it? Perhaps this is part of their geopolitical thinking as well.

lol, then you don’t understand any religon at all if you think a ‘stones’ permanence or banishment despite it’s significance can influence the permanence or banishment of a religon.

That’s like saying, get rid of all the crucifixes and Christianity will vanish.

Sifu… liveleak has a few more but can you explain or provide some proof to your claim about Arabs being involved in the holocaust/genocide?

Probably the best place to start is with the grand Mufti of Jerusalem. Here is a German Documentary about him.

Hitler, The Mufti Of Jerusalem And Modern Islamo Nazism - YouTube

This news report from Bayerischer Rundfunk explains in detail the cooperation between the Nazis and the Muslim Arab leaders during WW2.

It goes on to explain how high ranking heads of the SS fled to the Arab world and carried on their activities under the protection of leaders such as President Nasser and how modern Islam has adopted a Nazi style ideology of hate and conspiracy against the Jews.

Here is another video about the mufti.

Here is a video about the SS handzar division that he raised.

Incidentally the actions of the Bosnian SS divisions during the war was the cause of what happened in Kosovo in the 90’s.

[/quote]

Ahh gee, someone better remind you that this is all politics and the ones that cop it are you and me who buy into this propoganda from both sides. I mean, surely you knew that this evil ol mufti was appointed by none other than Sir Herbert Samuel of the British Army who was a jew himself.

[quote]GCF wrote:

Pat, carry on quoting statistics and strutting about like an expert on Palestinian political theory. Let me know if you even meet a Palestinian and have a discussion with them. I think you’ll be surprised that they are not raving lunatics with bombs strapped to them. But hey, whatever helps fit your worldview.[/quote]

No, many are not. Some people on these threads seem to have an irrational hatred of Palestinans in particular and Muslims in general akin to the hatred of Jews many Muslims have. That doesn’t help anyone. But ‘good’ Palestinians becomes a moot point when the government is a terrorist organization that intentionally targets Israeli civilains, applauds and recruits sucicide bombers, fosters a culture of martyrdom in its own people, and intentionally increases the death toll of its own people by building its military infrastructure at and launching its rockets from schools, homes, community centers, and mosques.

The fact that there are good and innocent Palestinans makes the consequences of Israel’s response all the more tragic, but it doesn’t make it any less necessary. Until Hamas is gone, Hamas rockets and mortars stop targetting Israeli civilians, and suicide bombings stop, Israel’s response is necessary. And justified. And even if it wasn’t that would still be what happens. That’s the bottom line. It’s a simple one and one people on these forums somehow keep missing.

[quote]humble wrote:
Sifu wrote:
humble wrote:
DrSkeptix wrote:

2 Do you think the Saudis understand that if a bomb hits that black stone in Mecca, the basis of the religion goes with it? Perhaps this is part of their geopolitical thinking as well.

lol, then you don’t understand any religon at all if you think a ‘stones’ permanence or banishment despite it’s significance can influence the permanence or banishment of a religon.

That’s like saying, get rid of all the crucifixes and Christianity will vanish.

Sifu… liveleak has a few more but can you explain or provide some proof to your claim about Arabs being involved in the holocaust/genocide?

Probably the best place to start is with the grand Mufti of Jerusalem. Here is a German Documentary about him.

Hitler, The Mufti Of Jerusalem And Modern Islamo Nazism - YouTube

This news report from Bayerischer Rundfunk explains in detail the cooperation between the Nazis and the Muslim Arab leaders during WW2.

It goes on to explain how high ranking heads of the SS fled to the Arab world and carried on their activities under the protection of leaders such as President Nasser and how modern Islam has adopted a Nazi style ideology of hate and conspiracy against the Jews.

Here is another video about the mufti.

Here is a video about the SS handzar division that he raised.

Incidentally the actions of the Bosnian SS divisions during the war was the cause of what happened in Kosovo in the 90’s.

Ahh gee, someone better remind you that this is all politics and the ones that cop it are you and me who buy into this propoganda from both sides. I mean, surely you knew that this evil ol mufti was appointed by none other than Sir Herbert Samuel of the British Army who was a jew himself.

[/quote]

Misleading at best. He was the High Comissioner of Palestine. It was his job to mediate between Zionist and Arab interests acting to slow Jewish immigration and win the confidence of the Arab population. He was a pains to demonstrate his neutrality. He hoped to gain Arab participation in mandate affairs and to guard their civil and economic rights, while at the same time refusing them any authority that could be used to stop Jewish immigration and land purchase. He’s publicly stated this and his actions reflect it.

After the British conquered Palestine, the Sultan was no longer the secular ruler. It had been the Ottoman Sultan’s job to choose the Islamic Spiritual leader. So the task fell to Samuel. His choice did prove to be a mistake, Husseini was terrible and proved to a big headache for the British and bad for this world and peace in general.

The fact that he himself was Jewish is of little import.

[quote]jsbrook wrote:
Until Hamas is gone, [/quote]

You make sense most of the time, but you’re completely off on this.

Hamas is not going anywhere. They grow stronger with every dead or maimed Palestinian by T’sahal. Short of blowing up the whole Gaza Strip, there’s not much Israel can do at this point. They starved them, blockaded them, assassinated their leaders, built walls and fences. And with everyone of these actions, they’re giving power to Hamas.

What you mean, really, is that Palestinians have no right to resist. They should just be docile, nod their heads, fear the wrath of collective punishment and accept the status quo and the scattered Israeli-controlled bits of lands that are on the table.

Get them jet fighters, tanks, bombs and rifles. See how many of them think about suicide.

Let me get this straight:

  • Hamas’ rockets have killed 15 Israelis in 7 years. Those rockets, while loud, make relatively little damage. Israelis have bomb-shelters.

  • Israeli bombs have killed 600 Palestinians in 10 days. The incessant air raids are terrorizing the population. They have nowhere to hide, as even UNRWA operated schools have been targeted.

And you then assert that Israel’s response is “justified”? This is absolute madness!

[quote]lixy wrote:
Hamas is not going anywhere. They grow stronger with every dead or maimed Palestinian by T’sahal. Short of blowing up the whole Gaza Strip, there’s not much Israel can do at this point. They starved them, blockaded them, assassinated their leaders, built walls and fences. And with everyone of these actions, they’re giving power to Hamas.[/quote]

Hamas doesn’t have to go anywhere, they just need to amend their charter (or whatever they call it) so that their first order of business is not the destruction of the state of Israel.

Israel is not going anywhere, regardless of anyone’s personal feeling on how it was established.

Every war has losers. Hamas can resist all they want, but with the military superiority of Israel, there is simply no way they’ll ever win back their land. At this point, they’re simply prolonging the suffering of their people.

Why don’t they get them themselves?

[quote]- Hamas’ rockets have killed 15 Israelis in 7 years. Those rockets, while loud, make relatively little damage. Israelis have bomb-shelters.

  • Israeli bombs have killed 600 Palestinians in 10 days. The incessant air raids are terrorizing the population. They have nowhere to hide, as even UNRWA operated schools have been targeted.

And you then assert that Israel’s response is “justified”? This is absolute madness! [/quote]

How many dead Israelis are needed before Israel has justification to strike back?

[quote]GCF wrote:
pat wrote:
GCF wrote:
pushharder wrote:
GCF wrote:
pushharder wrote
I appreciate your post but you need to re-read mine. I did not write “hundreds of thousands”. Please pay attention.

Yep. I did misread your post. My bad. Although hundreds and thousands are quite clearly a minority. I have my doubts about that footage but even if it was true (i.e they were knowingly and genuinely celebrating the death of those murdered in that barbaric act) it is nothing remotely like what I experienced. I wish they had shown footage of the parts of Gaza I saw on that day. The anguish and sadness was astonishing.

The astonishing anguish and sadness you saw was indeed for the United States of America, the only true blue supporter of Israel on the planet?

It was for the people killed. Is that really so hard to believe? Do you think I am making this up? Palestinians don’t like to see innocent Americans killed just like you don’t like to see innocent Palestinians, Israelis, Iraqis, Iranians or whatever killed. Is that hard to believe? You do realize they are human beings don’t you?

I find it hard to believe. Considering the hate filled wrangle that comes from the elected leadership and the religious leadership that stirs the pot by calling for the deaths of all Israelis. The cartoons for kids to take up jihad. And the fact that the Palestinians elected the “muderous scum” is not helping me believe they are bleeding hearts for the Zionists. Why would they elect a group like Hamas into power if it were not for their hard-line stance against Israel?

There are lots of reasons why Hamas were elected, it wasn’t because the majority wanted military attacks on Israel though. Why would they? Just for one second put yourself in their shoes, they live an existence of fear, frustration and humiliation that you couldn’t imagine. They aren’t stupid, they know they are no match for Israel. Every suicide bomber scares they shit out of them because of the reprisals they know are coming.

Anyway. I can’t really be bothered discussing this any more with people who have no ideas of the realities of life in the Occupied Territories. Some of the poorest, densest populations on the planet. Constant fear and no certainty the necessities of life will be available to them. It’s a bad time of the year for me to have these discussions as it is almost the anniversary of the death of a friend of mine who was murdered in cold blood by an Israeli sniper.

Pat, carry on quoting statistics and strutting about like an expert on Palestinian political theory. Let me know if you even meet a Palestinian and have a discussion with them. I think you’ll be surprised that they are not raving lunatics with bombs strapped to them. But hey, whatever helps fit your worldview.[/quote]

Good, go away. All you have presented is hearsay which quite frankly is in opposition to known facts. Palestinian suffering does not excuse those acts which they whole heatedly support even to their own detriment.

Hamas has brought nothing but the ire of Israel upon them, yet they support them. I have nothing to support the fact that the greater palestinian population is willing to live with there Jewish neighbors in peace. All I see is calls for more terror and more attacks…Surrender is their best option.

[quote]lixy wrote:
jsbrook wrote:
Until Hamas is gone,

You make sense most of the time, but you’re completely off on this.

Hamas is not going anywhere.
[/quote]
Yeah they are. They are going to get ass fucked by their 72 male virgins.

No they don’t.

You’re drunk. Outrage only gets you so far.

Again, if they stopped the terror and renounce future terror, this would not be happening, further they would have their own space and be fully recognized by us Zionists.

[quote]
Israel’s response is necessary. And justified.

Let me get this straight:

  • Hamas’ rockets have killed 15 Israelis in 7 years. Those rockets, while loud, make relatively little damage. Israelis have bomb-shelters.

  • Israeli bombs have killed 600 Palestinians in 10 days. The incessant air raids are terrorizing the population. They have nowhere to hide, as even UNRWA operated schools have been targeted.

And you then assert that Israel’s response is “justified”? This is absolute madness! [/quote]

Funny you never seem to have this level of outrage say at the Mumbai terror attacks. Or any other form of terrorism…
So according to you it?s ok for the terrorists to target and murder civilians on a daily basis, but it?s not OK for a country to defend it?s citizens from these attacks using military action. You never condemn the terrorists. Let us not for get that the gaza strip would not exist as it is if 6 countries did not declare war on Israel in 1967. Six countries had their ass kicked and land taken by Israel, yet these little morons in Gaza think that by killing a few Jews in Israel they are doing the work of Allah. They are not doing the work of Allah, they are bringing the wrath of God upon themselves.

You can spin it anyway you like, but peace is not possible for one simple reason. The majority of muslim leadership preaches hate for the Jews. It is pure anti-semitism behind the whole problem

[quote]pookie wrote:
How many dead Israelis are needed before Israel has justification to strike back?
[/quote]

That is actually the only important question here. How long do we allow terror to continue before we do something about it. Lixy would have them and us just sit here and get killed like we “deserve”.

[quote]jsbrook wrote:

No, many are not. Some people on these threads seem to have an irrational hatred of Palestinans in particular and Muslims in general akin to the hatred of Jews many Muslims have. That doesn’t help anyone. But ‘good’ Palestinians becomes a moot point when the government is a terrorist organization that intentionally targets Israeli civilains, applauds and recruits sucicide bombers, fosters a culture of martyrdom in its own people, and intentionally increases the death toll of its own people by building its military infrastructure at and launching its rockets from schools, homes, community centers, and mosques.

The fact that there are good and innocent Palestinans makes the consequences of Israel’s response all the more tragic, but it doesn’t make it any less necessary. Until Hamas is gone, Hamas rockets and mortars stop targetting Israeli civilians, and suicide bombings stop, Israel’s response is necessary. And justified. And even if it wasn’t that would still be what happens. That’s the bottom line. It’s a simple one and one people on these forums somehow keep missing. [/quote]

Very eloquent. Well said.

[quote]lixy wrote:
jsbrook wrote:
Until Hamas is gone,

You make sense most of the time, but you’re completely off on this.

Hamas is not going anywhere. They grow stronger with every dead or maimed Palestinian by T’sahal. Short of blowing up the whole Gaza Strip, there’s not much Israel can do at this point. They starved them, blockaded them, assassinated their leaders, built walls and fences. And with everyone of these actions, they’re giving power to Hamas.

Hamas rockets and mortars stop targetting Israeli civilians,

What you mean, really, is that Palestinians have no right to resist. They should just be docile, nod their heads, fear the wrath of collective punishment and accept the status quo and the scattered Israeli-controlled bits of lands that are on the table.

and suicide bombings stop,

Get them jet fighters, tanks, bombs and rifles. See how many of them think about suicide.

Israel’s response is necessary. And justified.

Let me get this straight:

  • Hamas’ rockets have killed 15 Israelis in 7 years. Those rockets, while loud, make relatively little damage. Israelis have bomb-shelters.

  • Israeli bombs have killed 600 Palestinians in 10 days. The incessant air raids are terrorizing the population. They have nowhere to hide, as even UNRWA operated schools have been targeted.

And you then assert that Israel’s response is “justified”? This is absolute madness! [/quote]

LOL. Do your handlers ever wonder whether or not you make more people see Islam from the infidel perspective rather than you’re own? Truth told to an infidel is anathema in Islam. “War is deceit,” as Muhammad put it. The problem is, you’re such a bad liar.

Back to the over with you, Jew!

[quote]pat wrote:
Back to the over with you, Jew!

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,477450,00.html[/quote]

Thats just fucking sick.

[quote]pookie wrote:
Hamas doesn’t have to go anywhere, they just need to amend their charter (or whatever they call it) so that their first order of business is not the destruction of the state of Israel. [/quote]

Agreed. That’s very important.

No argument there. I said the exact same thing on numerous occasions.

Might does NOT makes right.

Moreover, this is not your run-of-the-mill war. The Palestinians were NOT the aggressors. It’s the Zionists that kicked them out, not the other way around.

Don’t portray this as something you know it’s not.

[quote]Get them jet fighters, tanks, bombs and rifles. See how many of them think about suicide.

Why don’t they get them themselves? [/quote]

Basic economics.

[quote]- Hamas’ rockets have killed 15 Israelis in 7 years. Those rockets, while loud, make relatively little damage. Israelis have bomb-shelters.

  • Israeli bombs have killed 600 Palestinians in 10 days. The incessant air raids are terrorizing the population. They have nowhere to hide, as even UNRWA operated schools have been targeted.

And you then assert that Israel’s response is “justified”? This is absolute madness!

How many dead Israelis are needed before Israel has justification to strike back? [/quote]

Israel has got the right to strike back without anybody on their side dying. It would be called self-defense. But it doesn’t mean the massive bombings and slaughter that’s going on in Gaza is “justified”. A quarter of the victims are children for Heaven’s sake!

What wouldn’t, couldn’t possibly be considered self-defense, is if they suddenly decided to attack Chile saying that the latter is developing WMDs. But that’s another story…

[quote]lixy wrote:
pookie wrote:
Hamas doesn’t have to go anywhere, they just need to amend their charter (or whatever they call it) so that their first order of business is not the destruction of the state of Israel.

Agreed. That’s very important.

Israel is not going anywhere, regardless of anyone’s personal feeling on how it was established.

No argument there. I said the exact same thing on numerous occasions.

Every war has losers. Hamas can resist all they want, but with the military superiority of Israel, there is simply no way they’ll ever win back their land. At this point, they’re simply prolonging the suffering of their people.

Might does NOT makes right.

Moreover, this is not your run-of-the-mill war. The Palestinians were NOT the aggressors. It’s the Zionists that kicked them out, not the other way around.

Don’t portray this as something you know it’s not.

Get them jet fighters, tanks, bombs and rifles. See how many of them think about suicide.

Why don’t they get them themselves?

Basic economics.

  • Hamas’ rockets have killed 15 Israelis in 7 years. Those rockets, while loud, make relatively little damage. Israelis have bomb-shelters.

  • Israeli bombs have killed 600 Palestinians in 10 days. The incessant air raids are terrorizing the population. They have nowhere to hide, as even UNRWA operated schools have been targeted.

And you then assert that Israel’s response is “justified”? This is absolute madness!

How many dead Israelis are needed before Israel has justification to strike back?

Israel has got the right to strike back without anybody on their side dying. It would be called self-defense. But it doesn’t mean the massive bombings and slaughter that’s going on in Gaza is “justified”. A quarter of the victims are children for Heaven’s sake!

What wouldn’t, couldn’t possibly be considered self-defense, is if they suddenly decided to attack Chile saying that the latter is developing WMDs. But that’s another story…[/quote]

Not seeing you give a damn about the children killed from all of Hamas’s suicide attacks and rocket attacks. I guess jewish children don’t really matter all that much huh?

Besides it doesn’t help that Hamas uses those kids as shields. Throwing a kid in harm’s way tends to get them killed.

[quote]lixy wrote:
Might does NOT makes right.[/quote]

No, it doesn’t. It does make it stupid to attack it by throwing rocks, though.

It’s not run of the mill in the sense that one side still exists simply because the other one has shown restraint.

Maybe they’d have an economy if they stopped wasting their time in goading Israel to bomb their infrastructures to shit.

If someone hid behind kids and started shooting at your family, how many wives, sons and goats would you be willing to lose before you fought back, kids be damned?

[quote]pookie wrote:
lixy wrote:
Might does NOT makes right.

No, it doesn’t. It does make it stupid to attack it by throwing rocks, though. [/quote]

Says you.

Go ask Mandela or Tutu what they think of your definition of “stupid”.

[quote]Moreover, this is not your run-of-the-mill war. The Palestinians were NOT the aggressors. It’s the Zionists that kicked them out, not the other way around.

It’s not run of the mill in the sense that one side still exists simply because the other one has shown restraint. [/quote]

So I take it that you think the Palestinians were the aggressors?

[quote]Basic economics.

Maybe they’d have an economy if they stopped wasting their time in goading Israel to bomb their infrastructures to shit. [/quote]

Then what? How are they going to get jet fighters in Gaza when even bread and water goes through Israeli checkpoints?

[quote]Israel has got the right to strike back without anybody on their side dying. It would be called self-defense. But it doesn’t mean the massive bombings and slaughter that’s going on in Gaza is “justified”. A quarter of the victims are children for Heaven’s sake!

If someone hid behind kids and started shooting at your family, how many wives, sons and goats would you be willing to lose before you fought back, kids be damned? [/quote]

It’s so clear now. This analogy illustrates perfectly the conflict.

Nevermind its origins. Nevermind Gaza’s demographic density. And nevermind the millions-fold difference between the military power of Israel and that of Hamas.

It’s about “goats” and “kids be damned”.