Israel and Smugglers/Aid Workers

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
101

[quote]Mishima wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Mishima wrote:
where are the dead soldiers than if the crew was 600 ultraviolent, extremly dangerous and armed to the teeth terrorists? [/quote]

These people on the ships would have killed every Israeli they could get their hands on, they support suicide bombing Israeli children.

quote]

yes thats what members of the german bundestag and best selling swedish authors are generally known for these days.

[/quote]

That’s what supporting groups like Hamas is.

102

ok lets shoot everybody who critizes Israel in advance - because they are all terroristloving scum who support sucidide bombing israeli childres. lets kill them all.

103

[quote]Mishima wrote:
ok lets shoot everybody who critizes Israel in advance - because they are all terroristloving scum who support sucidide bombing israeli childres. lets kill them all. [/quote]

I thought you were anti-Israeli in this thing . . . have you suffered from these dramatic moods swings often? Do you find yourself changing positions from one extreme to another extreme within the same conversation. Perhaps you should talk to you doctor about taking Chillaxus . . . .side affects include loss of anger, frequent hugging and occaasional weed usage . . .

104

just pointing out where an argumeent like “everbody on this ship was an evil terroristlover” leads to finaly.

And I am not antiisraeili I am anti an action the isreali government ordered. thats a difference.

105

The bottom line is this:

Israel is going to find it increasingly difficult to maintain its current political positions (foreign policy, domestic policy, economic policy, nuclear policy) within the world community.

The United States is a crumbling empire and the European Union is coming apart at the seams. Within the near future, Israel will not be able to count on as much political, financial or military backing from either of these because they will simply not be able to afford to. Americans have enough problems, we don’t need to be worrying about another country’s foreign policy concerns. I’m sorry, but Israeli and American interests are not one in the same.

106

[quote]Mishima wrote:
just pointing out where an argumeent like “everbody on this ship was an evil terroristlover” leads to finaly.

And I am not antiisraeili I am anti an action the isreali government ordered. thats a difference.

[/quote]

That would be relevant if they shot everyone on the ship. However, it does look like the mob tried attacking every soldier. If the Israelis played by the same rules as the people you support, they would have just gone through and executed everyone on the ship or blown them up with explosives, or video recorded beheading them.

107

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Mishima wrote:
just pointing out where an argumeent like “everbody on this ship was an evil terroristlover” leads to finaly.

And I am not antiisraeili I am anti an action the isreali government ordered. thats a difference.

[/quote]

That would be relevant if they shot everyone on the ship. However, it does look like the mob tried attacking every soldier. If the Israelis played by the same rules as the people you support, they would have just gone through and executed everyone on the ship or blown them up with explosives, or video recorded beheading them.[/quote]

Exactly!! Torpedos are relatively cheap . . .

108

[quote]Rational Gaze wrote:

[quote]IrishSteel wrote:

[quote]Rational Gaze wrote:

I fucking love this. The Israelis can use phosphorous rounds on civilian targets (I think they mortared UN aid buildings too!), ignore their own rules of engagement, continue to build settlements on Palestinian land, and that isn’t terrorism?[/quote]

So what is your contention here, that Israel Defense Forces woke up one morning and decided to randomly attack civilian targets with Phosphorous rounds?

You are a moron,

The cowards who hide behind women and children and sets up fire positions inside schools, hospitals and government buildings while forcing the innocent civilians to remain in the buildings with them are the ones responsible if the human shields they force to stay are injured in a return fire engagement, not the ones responding to the initial attacks.

It is the lowest of the lowest of the lowest scum who hid behind children in order to “protect” the same children from harm. What kind of a man uses a child as body armor? What kind of a warrior hides under the skirts of a woman to protect his own balls?[/quote]

White phosphorous rounds are banned from use where civilians may be harmed, and you think it’s legitimate to use them? Oh, right, because they’re being used as human shields!? I guess those people taking shelter near apartment blocks were all human shields? The warehouses storing food and medicine, that’s all an elaborate ploy too, those had to be hit too? Were they full of human shields or something?

If I’m the moron for abhorring the murder of innocent people, then I pity you.[/quote]

Bringing civilians in as a shield for running a blockade, said blockade against a terrorist government (Hamas), and the Israelis are at fault? Wow!

109

[quote]weby wrote:

[quote]dk44 wrote:
So why do “peace” activist have weapons again?[/quote]

Boarding a ship in international waters is Piracy, and the activists could use force to get the racist and brutal IDF off their ship. It was a aid ship for fucks sake[/quote]

If a maniac were standing just off your property and trying to hide a package from you and you suspect the package contains things meant to harm you and your family, what would you do?

110

The Israelis are fast backing off the claim that the people on the ships had guns.I support their right to search these ships,but they really got sucker punched here.I don’t see how this was allowed to go down the way it did.It’s a fuck up for them.Stop and board them close to your territorial waters,at least.

111

[quote]Neuromancer wrote:
The Israelis are fast backing off the claim that the people on the ships had guns.I support their right to search these ships,but they really got sucker punched here.I don’t see how this was allowed to go down the way it did.It’s a fuck up for them.Stop and board them close to your territorial waters,at least.[/quote]

What difference does it make how close they let them get?

112

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Neuromancer wrote:
The Israelis are fast backing off the claim that the people on the ships had guns.I support their right to search these ships,but they really got sucker punched here.I don’t see how this was allowed to go down the way it did.It’s a fuck up for them.Stop and board them close to your territorial waters,at least.[/quote]

What difference does it make how close they let them get?[/quote]

From a p.r. standpoint?Territorial waters are considered sovereign territory.You don’t think that makes a difference?

113

[quote]Neuromancer wrote:
The Israelis are fast backing off the claim that the people on the ships had guns.I support their right to search these ships,but they really got sucker punched here.I don’t see how this was allowed to go down the way it did.It’s a fuck up for them.Stop and board them close to your territorial waters,at least.[/quote]

What if that boat was an entire fertilizer bomb or worse? I live near Texas City, Texas and we know what a fertilizer bomb the size of a ship can do.

I will agree that if Israel did do the shooting unprovoked and now are appoligizing it is a black eye for them.

114

[quote]Neuromancer wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Neuromancer wrote:
The Israelis are fast backing off the claim that the people on the ships had guns.I support their right to search these ships,but they really got sucker punched here.I don’t see how this was allowed to go down the way it did.It’s a fuck up for them.Stop and board them close to your territorial waters,at least.[/quote]

What difference does it make how close they let them get?[/quote]

From a p.r. standpoint?Territorial waters are considered sovereign territory.You don’t think that makes a difference?[/quote]

They proclaimed they were going to gaza. It isn’t like they attacked someone’s port to intercept the boats.

I think the only difference is semantics. People who don’t like Israel will use it to criticize, but had they waited, the same people wouldn’t change their mind about the situation.

My first thought when I heard the story was, “WTF is Israel doing?”. But looking at the video and the situation, I don’t think they did anything wrong.

If they had waited for territorial waters, then this shit had gone down, would it change your opinion of the situation?

115

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]Neuromancer wrote:
The Israelis are fast backing off the claim that the people on the ships had guns.I support their right to search these ships,but they really got sucker punched here.I don’t see how this was allowed to go down the way it did.It’s a fuck up for them.Stop and board them close to your territorial waters,at least.[/quote]

What if that boat was an entire fertilizer bomb or worse? I live near Texas City, Texas and we know what a fertilizer bomb the size of a ship can do.

I will agree that if Israel did do the shooting unprovoked and now are appoligizing it is a black eye for them. [/quote]

Beating people with metal rods doesn’t count as provocation?

116

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]Neuromancer wrote:
The Israelis are fast backing off the claim that the people on the ships had guns.I support their right to search these ships,but they really got sucker punched here.I don’t see how this was allowed to go down the way it did.It’s a fuck up for them.Stop and board them close to your territorial waters,at least.[/quote]

What if that boat was an entire fertilizer bomb or worse? I live near Texas City, Texas and we know what a fertilizer bomb the size of a ship can do.

I will agree that if Israel did do the shooting unprovoked and now are appoligizing it is a black eye for them. [/quote]

Territorial waters start 12 miles out,I think.If it was a bomb,whether they detonate it there or 60 miles out is immaterial.The casualties will be the same.I really am a bit stunned that they cocked this up.Especially hard on the heels of the Mossad Dubai debacle.This was EXACTLY the result the anti Israeli lobby was looking for.They couldn’t have scripted it better.

117

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Neuromancer wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Neuromancer wrote:
The Israelis are fast backing off the claim that the people on the ships had guns.I support their right to search these ships,but they really got sucker punched here.I don’t see how this was allowed to go down the way it did.It’s a fuck up for them.Stop and board them close to your territorial waters,at least.[/quote]

What difference does it make how close they let them get?[/quote]

From a p.r. standpoint?Territorial waters are considered sovereign territory.You don’t think that makes a difference?[/quote]

They proclaimed they were going to gaza. It isn’t like they attacked someone’s port to intercept the boats.

I think the only difference is semantics. People who don’t like Israel will use it to criticize, but had they waited, the same people wouldn’t change their mind about the situation.

My first thought when I heard the story was, “WTF is Israel doing?”. But looking at the video and the situation, I don’t think they did anything wrong.

If they had waited for territorial waters, then this shit had gone down, would it change your opinion of the situation?[/quote]

My opinion of the situation as a pr disaster?Yes.The whole thing would have gone down the same,probably.I don’t have too much of an issue with how it went down other than that.Don’t you think it would have been better for Israel?

118

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]Neuromancer wrote:
The Israelis are fast backing off the claim that the people on the ships had guns.I support their right to search these ships,but they really got sucker punched here.I don’t see how this was allowed to go down the way it did.It’s a fuck up for them.Stop and board them close to your territorial waters,at least.[/quote]

What if that boat was an entire fertilizer bomb or worse? I live near Texas City, Texas and we know what a fertilizer bomb the size of a ship can do.

I will agree that if Israel did do the shooting unprovoked and now are appoligizing it is a black eye for them. [/quote]

Beating people with metal rods doesn’t count as provocation?[/quote]

Looks like the truth is starting to come out in the news. CNN is stating that boths sides stories are unsubstantiated.

I was saying that if the Israelis’ came on board with guns ablazing, and the people had to pick up steal rods to protect themselves, then yes I would say that the Israelis were unprovoked. But if as they were coming down the ropes from the helicopter, and the people were saying look at the pinata, then yes the Israelis were provoked and had every reason to use the force they did.

Of course this incedent will be propaganda from the arab side, and the Israelis are trying to get the truth before they release a statement. One of the Israeli soldiers is saying that he came down the rope and they were swinging steal rods and knifes and trying to hold the soldiers as hostages. Again this is a he said she said incedent until the facts are brought forth.

119

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]Neuromancer wrote:
The Israelis are fast backing off the claim that the people on the ships had guns.I support their right to search these ships,but they really got sucker punched here.I don’t see how this was allowed to go down the way it did.It’s a fuck up for them.Stop and board them close to your territorial waters,at least.[/quote]

What if that boat was an entire fertilizer bomb or worse? I live near Texas City, Texas and we know what a fertilizer bomb the size of a ship can do.

I will agree that if Israel did do the shooting unprovoked and now are appoligizing it is a black eye for them. [/quote]

Beating people with metal rods doesn’t count as provocation?[/quote]

Looks like the truth is starting to come out in the news. CNN is stating that boths sides stories are unsubstantiated.

I was saying that if the Israelis’ came on board with guns ablazing, and the people had to pick up steal rods to protect themselves, then yes I would say that the Israelis were unprovoked. But if as they were coming down the ropes from the helicopter, and the people were saying look at the pinata, then yes the Israelis were provoked and had every reason to use the force they did.

Of course this incedent will be propaganda from the arab side, and the Israelis are trying to get the truth before they release a statement. One of the Israeli soldiers is saying that he came down the rope and they were swinging steal rods and knifes and trying to hold the soldiers as hostages. Again this is a he said she said incedent until the facts are brought forth.[/quote]

It looks like scenario 2 in the video. It also looks like Israel gave them plenty of opportunity to avoid being boarded.

120

[quote]Neuromancer wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Neuromancer wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Neuromancer wrote:
The Israelis are fast backing off the claim that the people on the ships had guns.I support their right to search these ships,but they really got sucker punched here.I don’t see how this was allowed to go down the way it did.It’s a fuck up for them.Stop and board them close to your territorial waters,at least.[/quote]

What difference does it make how close they let them get?[/quote]

From a p.r. standpoint?Territorial waters are considered sovereign territory.You don’t think that makes a difference?[/quote]

They proclaimed they were going to gaza. It isn’t like they attacked someone’s port to intercept the boats.

I think the only difference is semantics. People who don’t like Israel will use it to criticize, but had they waited, the same people wouldn’t change their mind about the situation.

My first thought when I heard the story was, “WTF is Israel doing?”. But looking at the video and the situation, I don’t think they did anything wrong.

If they had waited for territorial waters, then this shit had gone down, would it change your opinion of the situation?[/quote]

My opinion of the situation as a pr disaster?Yes.The whole thing would have gone down the same,probably.I don’t have too much of an issue with how it went down other than that.Don’t you think it would have been better for Israel?[/quote]

To be clear, I do think it will have a big PR impact. And it is a big negative for Israel in public opinion.

What I’m saying is that it shouldn’t and it doesn’t change the write or wrong of the situation. Plus you have to remember that if Israel listened to the people who cry foul about these things, they’d all be dead by now.