Israel and Smugglers/Aid Workers

[quote]Rational Gaze wrote:
[White phosphorous rounds are banned from use where civilians may be harmed, and you think it’s legitimate to use them? Oh, right, because they’re being used as human shields!? I guess those people taking shelter near apartment blocks were all human shields? The warehouses storing food and medicine, that’s all an elaborate ploy too, those had to be hit too? Were they full of human shields or something?

If I’m the moron for abhorring the murder of innocent people, then I pity you.[/quote]

from that great repository of knowledge wikipedia (since it seems to be the only source you all an use/find . . .

“The Convention on Certain Conventional Weapons, goes on, in its Protocol III, to prohibit the use of all air-delivered incendiary weapons against civilian populations, or for indiscriminate incendiary attacks against military forces co-located with civilians.[60] However, that protocol also specifically excludes weapons whose incendiary effects are secondary, such as smoke grenades. This has often been read as excluding white phosphorus munitions from this protocol, as well. Several countries, most notably Israel, are not signatories to Protocol III”

what was your point again? you were condoning hiding behind women and children right?

Don’t even try to set up a strawman here. You’re the one saying it’s OK to shell civilian targets (remember the warehouses containing medicine and supplies?), not me.

Oh, I see, Israel didn’t sign that convention on white phosphorous, so it’s OK! Guess what, they didn’t sign NPT either! That means nukes are on the cards I guess? I bet you’d love to see them use a few against the Arabs, eh?

[quote]IrishSteel wrote:
First Lebanese War - response to attempted assassination of the Israeli government officials by the same terrorist groups who had been assaulting Israel for some time from southern Lebanon

Second Lebanese War - response to the kidnapping of Israeli soldiers by terrorist organizations still operating out of southern Lebanon

Did you actually have a point other then proving mine?[/quote]

OK, so basically no matter what Israel do, they didn’t start it?

[quote]IrishSteel wrote:

[quote]Rational Gaze wrote:

[quote]IrishSteel wrote:

  1. Group of people openly declare their intent to break the law by running the Israeli blockade of its own territorial waters[/quote]

Fallen at the first hurdle! Nice try though![/quote]

they didn’t openly declare their intent to break the law?[/quote]

By sailing in international waters to deliver aid to Gaza, what law were they breaking? What right, exactly, did the IDF have to board any of those ships?

[quote]IrishSteel wrote:

[quote]weby wrote:
What is Israel has done and does on a daily basis is state terrorism, I wish someone would blow up the israeli lobby up in America maybe then something might happen to these scums.[/quote]

Since when is self-defense terrorism? Every conflict with Israel has been started by those who attack it in order to destroy it. NAME ONE CONFLICT THAT WAS INSTIGATED BY ISRAEL?
[/quote]

Name one that wasn’t you moron by illegally occupying palestinian land they are the instigators of every conflict, the Israeli’s have really sold you their propaganda shit. Even the UN says that palestinian land is being illegally occupied so please do no tell me that this is not true.

[quote]Rational Gaze wrote:

[quote]IrishSteel wrote:

  1. Group of people openly declare their intent to break the law by running the Israeli blockade of its own territorial waters[/quote]

Fallen at the first hurdle! Nice try though![/quote]
LOL-idiot

This is fucking disgusting.I’m not going to bother getting into the debate here,as it’s full of conservative Americans,and therefore pro-Israel people.

I’m always been pro-palestine.I saw an Israeli member of government say on the news ‘we didn’t want a confrontation’.

Ah,I see.So that’s why you boarded the ship in the middle of the night with submachine guns in international waters.Your logic is flawless.

[quote]wigsa wrote:
This is fucking disgusting.I’m not going to bother getting into the debate here,as it’s full of conservative Americans,and therefore pro-Israel people.[/quote]

Yes, that’s probably the wise thing to do. I didn’t honestly think anyone could defend this, but I was sadly wrong.

Close-Up Footage of Mavi Marmara Passengers Attacking IDF Soldiers - YouTube!

[quote]weby wrote:

[quote]Headhunter wrote:

[quote]Rational Gaze wrote:
At what point do you think these boats, headed for Gaza, would have entered Israeli territory?

I repeat, why is Vanunu going back to jail, back to solitary confinement again, if they have no nuclear weapons program? Are they jailing him

I’m going to sidestep all of the issues regarding who initiated the violence here (paintball guns? ROFL) and make this very simple for you: how can you justify the murder of civilians on a humanitarian mission in international waters? Who initiated the violence here? Did the civilian ships attack an IDF helicopter as the Israelis claim? With what?

And because you failed to address this point last time: where is the footage proving the Israelis acted in the manner they claim, when there were journalists with the IDF?

[quote]kapulsky wrote:
Iran also openly support terrorism.
[/quote]

I fucking love this. The Israelis can use phosphorous rounds on civilian targets (I think they mortared UN aid buildings too!), ignore their own rules of engagement, continue to build settlements on Palestinian land, and that isn’t terrorism?[/quote]

You are a troll. I am a troll too but you are an idiot-troll.

The Israelis said for them to be inspected before being allowed to land, to see if there were weapons. As usual, they got bullets for answers.

No criticism either for bringing innocent people in as a human shields, troll-boy?
[/quote]

You are a mega troll and a an idiot do some research then come back here. The activists were within their right to fight back as they were in international waters and therefore the IDF were effectively pirates once they boarded and from which source did you get the information that the activists fired at the IDF, i’m suspecting it was an Israeli press release because the israeli’s always tell the truth!
[/quote]

please, muslims do nothing but lie. the israelis have every right to defend themselves.

[quote]wigsa wrote:
This is fucking disgusting.I’m not going to bother getting into the debate here,as it’s full of conservative Americans,and therefore pro-Israel people.

I’m always been pro-palestine.I saw an Israeli member of government say on the news ‘we didn’t want a confrontation’.

Ah,I see.So that’s why you boarded the ship in the middle of the night with submachine guns in international waters.Your logic is flawless.[/quote]

leave then you piece of european filth.

[quote]Rational Gaze wrote:

[quote]wigsa wrote:
This is fucking disgusting.I’m not going to bother getting into the debate here,as it’s full of conservative Americans,and therefore pro-Israel people.[/quote]

Yes, that’s probably the wise thing to do. I didn’t honestly think anyone could defend this, but I was sadly wrong.
[/quote]

The Israelis are guilty of being pretty stupid and messing up this mission, they put themselves into all sorts of trouble by they way they botched it. Of course they had to board the vessel as it’s cargo could have been anything but they did it the wrong way.

I notice neither wigsa or rational gase have any solid points to make on the topic.

What’s funny is that on the video you can actually see that Israeli commandoes were using paintball guns to defend themselves (at first). Look at the 53ish second mark.

This was funny…

[quote]OKLAHOMA STATE wrote:
The Israelis started firing the minute they stepped on these ships. They did not start firing because they were attacked.

[/quote]

See posted video. They’re grabbing the commandoes directly off of the ropes and beating them.

Hamas have called for a ‘day of rage’ wtf does that mean?

They look pretty peaceful to me. They are swinging peace poles and throwing people down the deck of a boat must be a cultural thing.

Don’t these people have jobs? Families? how can they afford to do this?

More video being released - shows the “peaceful” people throwing fire bombs at the soldiers . . .

Please note that all the Israeli’s were requiring was that the ships dock at Ashdod,be unloaded and inspected for weapons, then the Israeli’s themselves would provide vehicles and fuel to deliver the supplies.

[quote]JamFly wrote:

[quote]Rational Gaze wrote:

[quote]wigsa wrote:
This is fucking disgusting.I’m not going to bother getting into the debate here,as it’s full of conservative Americans,and therefore pro-Israel people.[/quote]

Yes, that’s probably the wise thing to do. I didn’t honestly think anyone could defend this, but I was sadly wrong.
[/quote]

The Israelis are guilty of being pretty stupid and messing up this mission, they put themselves into all sorts of trouble by they way they botched it. Of course they had to board the vessel as it’s cargo could have been anything but they did it the wrong way.

I notice neither wigsa or rational gase have any solid points to make on the topic.[/quote]

This is exactly what I thought when I saw that video. It’s so ridiculous that I wonder whether they did it on purpose in order to find an excuse to shoot those activists.

[quote]baretta wrote:
They look pretty peaceful to me. They are swinging peace poles and throwing people down the deck of a boat must be a cultural thing.
[/quote]

LOL!

Guys, don’t be judgemental! You just don’t understand the culture of those peace activists!

Israel is isolated by world condemnation after attack on aid flotilla

THE international community united in condemning Israel yesterday following an attack on an aid flotilla bound for the blockaded Gaza Strip that left at least ten people dead.

Spontaneous protests erupted across Europe and the Middle East, as US president Barack Obama expressed “deep regret” over the massacre.

Israeli forces stormed the convoy of six ships carrying aid yesterday in a pre-dawn raid which saw commandos abseiling on to a boat and shooting dead pro-Palestinian aid volunteers.

Four Scots were believed to be among at least 16 Britons on board the flotilla. Their fate was unknown last night, although the Foreign Office said no Britons were among the dead.

Israel said its forces were forced to respond to “unexpected resistance” as they boarded the vessels, but one Scottish witness told how the Israelis faced no resistance.

Mr Obama demanded emergency talks with Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu last night, as planned peace talks were cancelled.

Foreign Secretary William Hague led the worldwide chorus of condemnation, saying: “I deplore the loss of life during the interception of the Gaza flotilla. Our embassy is in urgent contact with the Israeli government.”

Calling for an urgent lifting of an Israeli blockade on Gaza, Mr Hague added: “The closure of Gaza is unacceptable and counter-productive. There can be no better response from the international community to this tragedy than to achieve urgently a durable resolution to the Gaza crisis.”

He revealed that at least one Briton was among the injured as he demanded access to 16 UK citizens being held by the Israelis.

International leaders condemned the raid, while Greece, Egypt, Sweden, Spain and Denmark summoned Israel’s ambassadors demanding explanations for the violence.

Spain and France issued statements decrying the “disproportionate use of force”, while Greece suspended a military exercise with Israel and postponed a visit by Israel’s air force chief.

“It is vital that there is a full investigation to determine exactly how this bloodshed took place. I believe Israel must urgently provide a full explanation,” said UN secretary-general Ban Ki-moon.

Mr Netanyahu expressed “regret” for the loss of life but said the soldiers had no choice.

“Our soldiers had to defend themselves, defend their lives, or they would have been killed,” he said.

Israel said it opened fire after its commandos were attacked with knives, clubs and live fire from two pistols wrested from soldiers after they descended from a helicopter to board one of the vessels.

Night-vision footage released by the Israeli military showed soldiers dropping from a helicopter one by one and being grabbed by men wielding sticks on the lead boat, the Turkish-flagged Mavi Marmara.

The soldiers fell to the deck, where the men continued to beat them and dumped one of them from the top deck.

Five Israeli soldiers were wounded, two seriously, including at least one hit by live fire, the army said. Two of the dead activists had fired at soldiers with pistols, the Israeli army said.

“They planned this attack,” said Israeli military spokeswoman Lieutenant Colonel Avital Leibovitch. “Our soldiers were injured from these knives and sharp metal objectsâ?¦ as well as from live fire.”

The ships were being towed to the Israeli port of Ashdod, and the wounded were evacuated by helicopter to Israeli hospitals, Israeli officials said last night. One of the ships had reached port by midday yesterday.

There were no details on the identities of the casualties, or on the conditions of some of the more prominent people on board, including 1976 Nobel Peace Prize laureate Mairead Corrigan Maguire from Northern Ireland and Holocaust survivor Hedy Epstein, 85.

In Turkey, which unofficially sponsored the aid mission, 10,000 protesters converged on Taksim Square in central Istanbul last night to voice anger at Israel’s use of force against an aid convoy with many of their countrymen aboard. Most of the dead are believed to be Turkish.

Smaller protests erupted in capitals across the Middle East, Europe and South Asia.

Several hundred people protested outside Downing Street in London to denounce Israel after the deadly raid.

Chanting “Free Palestine” and brandishing banners condemning Israeli “war crimes”, activists blocked Whitehall as they staged an angry but peaceful demonstration.

In Scotland, emergency protests were staged at the Mound in Edinburgh and Glasgow’s George Square. Smaller protests were staged in Dundee, Aberdeen and Inverness.

A national demonstration will take place on Saturday at the Mound.

Veteran pro-Palestinian campaigner George Galloway described the operation as “a murderous act of piracy”.

The family of one of the Scots on board, father of four Dr Hasan Nowarah, 45, from Glasgow, were desperately trying to contact him last night.

His wife Seonaig said:

"We are just absolutely shocked and the problem is not knowing anything is really, really difficult.

“I haven’t spoken to Hasan since he left Crete four days ago. I have been in touch with the Foreign Office but no-one seems to know anything.”

Theresa McDermott, 43, a post office worker from Edinburgh, was also on board.

Friend Carl Abernethy said: “It is very worrying. The last I heard was that they were 65km from land, safely in international waters and they were going to wait until daylight to see if they could get to Gaza.”

Mark Lazarowicz, Ms McDermott’s MP in Edinburgh North and Leith, said: "She is a very brave woman, an ordinary post office worker who just felt she had to do something about the injustice in Gaza.

“I have been in touch with the Foreign Office, asking that they demand her release immediately.”

Ali El Awaisi, a 21-year-old history and politics student from Dundee, who is from a Palestinian family, was on his first aid mission abroad.

His brother Khaled said: "They didn’t have any guns or any arms, they were searched in Turkey. They were not allowed to have anything on board.

“I said to him: ‘What if the Israelis attack?’ He said they were planning to resist in as peaceful way as possible.”

Deputy First Minister Nicola Sturgeon condemned the attack and expressed her concern for the Scots involved last night.

She said: "My primary concern is for the safety of the Scots on board. The Israeli government must provide immediate reassurance of their well-being.

“This violence against a humanitarian convoy is rightly condemned across the world and demonstrates the need for Israel to lift the blockade.”

http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/news/Israel-is-isolated-by-world.6331462.jp

Russia: Israelâ??s attack on aid flotilla violated international law

Russia calls attention to the fact that the Israeli interception of a Gaza-bound international aid flotilla took place in international waters, which represents a gross violation of international law. In a statement from its Foreign Ministry Monday, it also urges the Israelis to preclude such incidents in the future by lifting their closure of the Gaza area. The flotilla of six ships with 750 activists and reporters from 50 countries and 10 thousand tons of relief cargoes on board was on a mission to defy the blockade. A predawn assault on it by Israeli naval forces left 19 people dead and three dozen injured. Israel has so far confirmed only 15 of the deaths. It also says its boarding squad fired in self-defense. There is a mounting chorus of international condemnation of the action by Israel.

http://english.ruvr.ru/2010/05/31/8802467.html

Sarkozy condemns Israel raid on Flotilla

The French president has condemned the Israeli attack on a Gaza-bound aid convoy, accusing the regime of “disproportionate use of force.”

French President Nicolas Sarkozy “condemns the disproportionate use of force and sends his condolences to the families of the victims,” the Elysee palace said in a statement, AFP reported.

“All light must be shed on the circumstances of this tragedy which underlines how urgent it is to re-launch the peace process,” the Monday statement added.

The Israeli assault on the Freedom Flotilla aid convoy left 20 international activists killed and 50 others injured.

The United Nations Security Council is scheduled to hold a meeting regarding the brutal assault later on Monday.

The humanitarian convoy was carrying thousands of tons of supplies and hundreds of politicians, activists and journalists.

The Flotilla was seeking to break Israel’s three-year-long blockade of Gaza and deliver basic necessities to the impoverished Palestinians living in the coastal enclave.

http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=128516&sectionid=351020603

Tutu condemns Israel aid-boat attack

Anglican Archbishop Emeritus Desmond Tutu and a group of retired global leaders have joined international leaders in condemning the Israeli forces’ raid on a ship delivering relief supplies to Gaza.

“We as elders condemn Israel utterly for this attack. The actions of the Israelis is inexcusable,” said Tutu.

He was speaking at the conclusion of a meeting of the group formed in 2008 to highlight humanitarian issues. Members include former UN secretary general Kofi Annan and former US president Jimmy Carter.

Reading a statement, Tutu said the Elders wanted an urgent investigation into the “tragic incident” after Israeli forces boarded the Mavi Marmara as it sailed with a flotilla to Gaza.

He said it should draw the world’s attention to the “terrible suffering of Gaza’s 1.5 million people, half of whom are children under the age of 18”.

The Elders considered Israel’s blockage of Gaza illegal collective punishment of its inhabitants and said it was also counterproductive.

“This is because it creates unacceptable suffering, in the process empowering extremists and undermining moderate forces in Gaza”, they said.

On Monday morning Israeli forces boarded one of the ships which was violating Israel’s blockade on certain goods entering the contested area. Israel warned last week that it would arrest those on board.

News reports said that at least 10 people were killed.

The Israeli Defence Force has said that they had tried to intercept the ships to search them, but were then fired on and attacked with knives and clubs.

Ten civilians were killed and four navy staff were among those injured.

The soldiers had been given full backing by Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, according to Associated Press.

South Africa’s foreign office said it was trying to establish whether there was a South African on board the ship during the attack, which it said should get the “highest level of international condemnation”.

The Congress of SA Trade Unions called the incident “state sponsored piracy” and urged a boycott of Israeli products, while the SA Municipal Workers’ Union issued a statement on behalf of a large group of civil society organisations calling it a “massacre”.

"The convoy of ships was carrying 750 people from 40 different countries including 35 international politicians, members of parliament, former diplomats, human rights activists, aid workers and journalists and was destined for the Gaza port of Rafah later this afternoon.

“The flotilla carried essential aid material, such as medication, construction material, toys, workbooks, chocolate and pasta to Gaza,” which the organisations said were banned by Israel.

They said South Africa should immediately recall its ambassador to the capital Tel Aviv, expel the Israeli ambassador in South Africa, and sever diplomatic ties with Israel.

The organisations represented in the statement included the Palestine Solidarity Committee and the Muslim Judicial Council.

http://www.timeslive.co.za/local/article479978.ece/Tutu-condemns-Israel-aid-boat-attack

Amazing how anti-semitism passes for honest debate on this issue.

I have a number of friends that are Israeli nationals, fine people , and their attitude is very simple…they will not go to the gas chambers again. Most of their detractors refuse to look at the history of the Jewish people and particularly, their struggles with radical Islam, in any type of objective light. The Palestine issue could have been solved peacefully long ago by all of their Muslim brothers.

While there is much information still to come out on this situation, I feel pretty confident stating that this was a setup and the aggression came from the “peace activists”.