[quote]Jewbacca wrote:
The “Israeli Government” had nothing to do with this; mocking terrorists is a private concern.
But what does one expect from the English? The only men among you are in the English Defence League.
I drank some good beer with some EDL guys I met playing rugby. A kippah-wearing, bearded, Jewish guy.[/quote]
Israel forced to apologise for YouTube spoof of Gaza flotilla
Israeli government press office distributed video link featuring Arabs and activists singing
‘[…] The Israeli government press office distributed the video link to foreign journalists at the weekend, but within hours emailed them an apology, saying it had been an error. […]’
Can’t comment on your rant wrt the ‘English’ - national stereotyping like that is just too stupid to get into a debate over.
I am sorry if this comes across as putting words into your mouth, that is not my intentions. I am trying to make a point. It is bad for Israelis to make light of a situation on the internet, but it is alright for the Muslim extremeists to show a decapitation of a journalist on the internet? I would take the first over the second any day.[/quote]
I can’t speak for Charlemagne - but I’d like to chime in: Yes, it’s bad. And yes, the other is of course worse - one would have to be a complete ogre not to be appalled by such atrocities. But two wrongs don’t make a right, and gloating over dead people simply sucks.
I am sorry if this comes across as putting words into your mouth, that is not my intentions. I am trying to make a point. It is bad for Israelis to make light of a situation on the internet, but it is alright for the Muslim extremeists to show a decapitation of a journalist on the internet? I would take the first over the second any day.[/quote]
I can’t speak for Charlemagne - but I’d like to chime in: Yes, it’s bad. And yes, the other is of course worse - one would have to be a complete ogre not to be appalled by such atrocities. But two wrongs don’t make a right, and gloating over dead people simply sucks.
I am sorry if this comes across as putting words into your mouth, that is not my intentions. I am trying to make a point. It is bad for Israelis to make light of a situation on the internet, but it is alright for the Muslim extremeists to show a decapitation of a journalist on the internet? I would take the first over the second any day.[/quote]
I can’t speak for Charlemagne - but I’d like to chime in: Yes, it’s bad. And yes, the other is of course worse - one would have to be a complete ogre not to be appalled by such atrocities. But two wrongs don’t make a right, and gloating over dead people simply sucks.
I am sorry if this comes across as putting words into your mouth, that is not my intentions. I am trying to make a point. It is bad for Israelis to make light of a situation on the internet, but it is alright for the Muslim extremeists to show a decapitation of a journalist on the internet? I would take the first over the second any day.[/quote]
I can’t speak for Charlemagne - but I’d like to chime in: Yes, it’s bad. And yes, the other is of course worse - one would have to be a complete ogre not to be appalled by such atrocities. But two wrongs don’t make a right, and gloating over dead people simply sucks.
Makkun[/quote]
Agreed.
[/quote]
Cool.
Makkun[/quote]
I keep thinking what JewBacca has talked about. If the Arabs put down their arms first today there would be peace, but if the Israelis put down their arms first they would be exterminated.
There seems to be a double standard. When arabs push around each other harshly that is ok because they are dealing with their own citizens, i.e. the human atrocities the Iranians are doing to their own people, Sadam Hussein killing his own people, the arab men treating women like property, but when the Israelis are just trying to protect themselves we jump all over their asses when something goes wrong. People hold Israel to a higher standard than the people that are trying to kill them.
[quote]dmaddox wrote:
People hold Israel to a higher standard than the people that are trying to kill them.[/quote]
And they should be held to a standard. Though, as is often the case, they shouldn’t be held to an impossible standard that very, very, few would tolerate themselves.
[quote]dmaddox wrote:
People hold Israel to a higher standard than the people that are trying to kill them.[/quote]
And they should be held to a standard. Though, as is often the case, they shouldn’t be held to an impossible standard that very, very, few would tolerate themselves.
[/quote]
But why should they be held to a higher standard than the ones they are fighting?
I agree they should be held to a standard of conduct, but whatever that is, everyone should be held to it.
[quote]dmaddox wrote:
[…]
I keep thinking what JewBacca has talked about. If the Arabs put down their arms first today there would be peace, but if the Israelis put down their arms first they would be exterminated.[/quote]
I don’t think that’s necessarily the case - ‘putting down ones arms’ is a slow process of negotiation and reconcilliation which can take decades; and I think the situation there is quite a bit more complex than such a blanket statement could accurately describe.
Of course the human rights violations in many arab countries are not ok at all - but I think the double standard has been held by ‘us’ just the same. Iran under the shah (thanks to a british support coup d’etat) was not a nice place; Sadam Hussein was getting preferential treatment while he was fighting Iran; etc. Israel has of course a right to defend itself - but I think it’s perfectly acceptable to criticise policy decisions when they are questionable. Criticism doesn’t make one an antisemite - and using that label to try to stifle it just undermines the pro-Israeli argument.
Israel defines itself as a free and democratic state; that in itself sets it apart from many of its neighbours - and yes, that goes with a higher standard. That’s what freedom and democracy are all about. With regards to the thread’s topic - here’s where Israel failed: its heavy-handed approach in this case has created the impression of a standards violation. Whether that’s accurately true is by now pretty much beside the point. It’s just another PR blunder. However you turn it - shooting 9 Turkish citizens didn’t help their cause, whether the IDF soldiers were rightfully defending themselves or whether they overreacted doesn’t really matter anymore. And the releasing and then rowing back on the parody song was just another own goal.
anyway . . . i’d like to remind everyone that there is a 7 mile border between Gaza and Egypt and any “aid” that the Gaza residents need could just as easily go through there - but where is the protests against Egypt? ANY criticism of Israel can just as easily be laid against Egypt . . . . sooooo . . . . where’s the international outrage against Egypt?
[quote]dmaddox wrote:
I keep thinking what JewBacca has talked about. If the Arabs put down their arms first today there would be peace, but if the Israelis put down their arms first they would be exterminated.[/quote]
I don’t think that’s necessarily the case - ‘putting down ones arms’ is a slow process of negotiation and reconcilliation which can take decades; and I think the situation there is quite a bit more complex than such a blanket statement could accurately describe.
Makkun[/quote]
Well actually this feud has been going on for Millenium. The Israelis have given the Arabs plenty of time to put down their arms. The arabs refuse. Study up on Islam and you will see why.
[quote]Jewbacca wrote:
The “Israeli Government” had nothing to do with this; mocking terrorists is a private concern.
But what does one expect from the English? The only men among you are in the English Defence League.
I drank some good beer with some EDL guys I met playing rugby. A kippah-wearing, bearded, Jewish guy.[/quote]
Israel forced to apologise for YouTube spoof of Gaza flotilla
Israeli government press office distributed video link featuring Arabs and activists singing
‘[…] The Israeli government press office distributed the video link to foreign journalists at the weekend, but within hours emailed them an apology, saying it had been an error. […]’
Can’t comment on your rant wrt the ‘English’ - national stereotyping like that is just too stupid to get into a debate over.
Makkun[/quote]
The Israeli government did not produce or officially distribute the video - some staffer forwarded it to some journalists admittedly by accident - the production and hosting on the internet was does by staffers at the jerusalem post . . .
[quote]Jewbacca wrote:
The “Israeli Government” had nothing to do with this; mocking terrorists is a private concern.
But what does one expect from the English? The only men among you are in the English Defence League.
I drank some good beer with some EDL guys I met playing rugby. A kippah-wearing, bearded, Jewish guy.[/quote]
Israel forced to apologise for YouTube spoof of Gaza flotilla
Israeli government press office distributed video link featuring Arabs and activists singing
‘[…] The Israeli government press office distributed the video link to foreign journalists at the weekend, but within hours emailed them an apology, saying it had been an error. […]’
Can’t comment on your rant wrt the ‘English’ - national stereotyping like that is just too stupid to get into a debate over.
Makkun[/quote]
The Israeli government did not produce or officially distribute the video - some staffer forwarded it to some journalists admittedly by accident - the production and hosting on the internet was does by staffers at the jerusalem post . . .[/quote]
I didn’t say it produced it. It did distribute it though. They are responsible for their staffer and who has access to the mailing list. If it was by accident, then that questions the efficacy of their PR operation. If it wasn’t (was someone disciplined over this?) it would speak for itself. Also interesting was the statement by Mark Regev along the lines of ‘Oh, it was an accident - but cool video, I’d show it to my kids … wink wink, nudge nudge’.
[quote]dmaddox wrote:
I keep thinking what JewBacca has talked about. If the Arabs put down their arms first today there would be peace, but if the Israelis put down their arms first they would be exterminated.[/quote]
I don’t think that’s necessarily the case - ‘putting down ones arms’ is a slow process of negotiation and reconcilliation which can take decades; and I think the situation there is quite a bit more complex than such a blanket statement could accurately describe.
Makkun[/quote]
Well actually this feud has been going on for Millenium. The Israelis have given the Arabs plenty of time to put down their arms. The arabs refuse. Study up on Islam and you will see why. [/quote]
Can’t really comment. I don’t subscribe to the ‘islam is evil’ rethoric that’s so prevalent on this board. In the context of this thread it’s also relatively irrelevant - however misguided the flotilla may have been, the IDF has delivered Israel an own goal and it certainly won’t have helped getting ‘the arabs’ to put down their weapons (it’s just cost Israel more friends). So from a strategic point - what has the raid achieved?
[quote]makkun wrote:
I didn’t say it produced it. It did distribute it though. They are responsible for their staffer and who has access to the mailing list.
[/quote]
A bit of a misleading statement to say they distributed it.
I think it really depends upon who was doing the distribution and if it was officially sanctioned activity? Now if it was the president or someone high up the food chain then you could indeed claim Israel distributed the material. Or if someone high up sanctioned it. However if it was a ‘peon’ sending the links then it is misleading to claim that Israel distributed it.
If a member of the US government was sending people a link containing pedophilia would you say the US government was distributing pedophilia? Would you say America was distributing pedophilia? In an abstract sense you could but it would be very misleading.
The fact that Israel is trying to prevent an international inquiry into the flotilla massacre shows that it has something to hide, how can Israel do the inquiry it’s like asking a murderer to investigate the murder he committed and the foreign observers are a joke Lord William David Trimble, the former first minister of Northern Ireland who was named as one of two international observers on the Israeli commission of inquiry into the raid started a Friends of Israel Initiative on the day of the deadly incident you cant get anymore biased than that.
source: Report: Turkel committee member launched pro-Israel initiative
Israel claims that jews lived on that land over 2000yrs ago don’t they realize what the world would look like if we all moved back to where we lived 2000yrs- the US would not even exist. Israel is the route cause to all terrorism why are we attacked in our countries the fukin terrorist give one reason all the time: Israel.
[quote]weby wrote:
Israel claims that jews lived on that land over 2000yrs ago don’t they realize what the world would look like if we all moved back to where we lived 2000yrs- the US would not even exist. Israel is the route cause to all terrorism why are we attacked in our countries the fukin terrorist give one reason all the time: Israel.[/quote]
FAIL - Jews have lived in that land continuously for approximately 4,000 years. big difference between lived there 2,000 years ago and returned and continuous settlement for 4,000 years . . . get some history . . .
