[quote]weby wrote:
Autopsy of the turkish dead have shown that 8 were shot close range -execution style and 6 had up to five bullets in the head, that is not self defense [/quote]
I would question that - I don’t think the IDF went in to kill. I think they thought that a show of power would create shock and awe - and that they panicked when their counterparts’ fear turned into anger and retalliation. IDF soldiers are just people as well - and under bad circumstances, and with a bad plan, they made bad decisions. Their chain of command and political leaders are ultimately to blame for not understanding the volatility of the situation and thinking that the chosen tactic wouldn’t backfire at some point. But they’ve shown remarkable resistance to learning from experience when confronted with the errors of their ways before - I would just hope that a more measured strategy will finally prevail. As with so many conflicts there’s nothing to be won - just less to be lost in the end. At the moment everyone’s still busy losing, which is a sad thing. I hope that this story may help them find reason.
[quote]weby wrote:
Autopsy of the turkish dead have shown that 8 were shot close range -execution style and 6 had up to five bullets in the head, that is not self defense [/quote]
I would question that - I don’t think the IDF went in to kill. I think they thought that a show of power would create shock and awe - and that they panicked when their counterparts’ fear turned into anger and retalliation. IDF soldiers are just people as well - and under bad circumstances, and with a bad plan, they made bad decisions. Their chain of command and political leaders are ultimately to blame for not understanding the volatility of the situation and thinking that the chosen tactic wouldn’t backfire at some point. But they’ve shown remarkable resistance to learning from experience when confronted with the errors of their ways before - I would just hope that a more measured strategy will finally prevail. As with so many conflicts there’s nothing to be won - just less to be lost in the end. At the moment everyone’s still busy losing, which is a sad thing. I hope that this story may help them find reason.
Makkun[/quote]
You have the right to question it all you like but it will not change the facts- the autopsy report show that they were shot execution style some had 5/6 bullets in their heads.
[quote]weby wrote:
You have the right to question it all you like but it will not change the facts- the autopsy report show that they were shot execution style some had 5/6 bullets in their heads. [/quote]
Source documents or it didn’t happen = tired of all of the pretentious quoting on here that always turns out to be nothing but hype and misinformation.
Make claim? then back it up . . .
oh, and on a side note - huge difference between marksmanship and an execution.
I can hit 2 inch groups at 25 yards, any competent marksman could
Where did those knifes go? Into the Rueters Recycle Bin?[/quote]
What a fucking joke. CNN did the same thing when it showed U.S. Marines “gunning down unarmed Iraqis”…of course the part of the video they didn’t air was those same Iraqis ambushing the Marines and then throwing down their weapons as they ran away…
Where did those knifes go? Into the Rueters Recycle Bin?[/quote]
What a fucking joke. CNN did the same thing when it showed U.S. Marines “gunning down unarmed Iraqis”…of course the part of the video they didn’t air was those same Iraqis ambushing the Marines and then throwing down their weapons as they ran away…[/quote]
Yup, I remember that too. Gotta love the un-biased objective reporting these days.
[quote]weby wrote:
You have the right to question it all you like but it will not change the facts- the autopsy report show that they were shot execution style some had 5/6 bullets in their heads. [/quote]
Source documents or it didn’t happen = tired of all of the pretentious quoting on here that always turns out to be nothing but hype and misinformation.
Make claim? then back it up . . .
oh, and on a side note - huge difference between marksmanship and an execution.
I can hit 2 inch groups at 25 yards, any competent marksman could[/quote]
The articles below maps out the injuries of the activists killed:
[quote]weby wrote:
You have the right to question it all you like but it will not change the facts- the autopsy report show that they were shot execution style some had 5/6 bullets in their heads. [/quote]
Source documents or it didn’t happen = tired of all of the pretentious quoting on here that always turns out to be nothing but hype and misinformation.
Make claim? then back it up . . .
oh, and on a side note - huge difference between marksmanship and an execution.
I can hit 2 inch groups at 25 yards, any competent marksman could[/quote]
The articles below maps out the injuries of the activists killed:
Makkun
[/quote]
Which indicate a variety of wounds as one would expect as wel as a few head shots - also as one would suspect, but no one with 5/6 bullets in their head and no one shot execution style (kneeled abd restrained with downward angled gunshot wound to back of head)
[quote]weby wrote:
You have the right to question it all you like but it will not change the facts- the autopsy report show that they were shot execution style some had 5/6 bullets in their heads. [/quote]
Source documents or it didn’t happen = tired of all of the pretentious quoting on here that always turns out to be nothing but hype and misinformation.
Make claim? then back it up . . .
oh, and on a side note - huge difference between marksmanship and an execution.
I can hit 2 inch groups at 25 yards, any competent marksman could[/quote]
The articles below maps out the injuries of the activists killed:
Makkun
[/quote]
Which indicate a variety of wounds as one would expect as wel as a few head shots - also as one would suspect, but no one with 5/6 bullets in their head and no one shot execution style (kneeled abd restrained with downward angled gunshot wound to back of head)
wanna redo?[/quote]
Don’t have to - wasn’t my claim. Just added some sources as requested.
[quote]PonceDeLeon wrote:
So the soldiers were provoked because the passengers attacked them?
Or were the passengers provoked when they saw commandos rappel down from helicopters onto the ship, panic and decide to retaliate?
How easy is it to identify paintball guns - let alone expect the commandos to be carrying non-lethal weapons - in the DARK?
Weren’t the other flotillas properly docked and boarded and found to be carrying aid (not weapons) ?
Lots of racist, redneck fucks in here. I’m not surprised, but I was expecting the usual Rush Limbaugh and Glenn Beck nut hugging crowd.
The US definitely needs to cut the Israel’s allowance. And yes, Israel has nukes.[/quote]
have you not watched the videos? well, never mind actually, your post already proved that . . . Thanks for your misinformed opinion . . .[/quote]
I would consider the provoking to be trying to run a legal and necessary blockage, while telling the Israeli military to “go back to Auschwitz”, throwing flash bangs on approaching ships, beating and stabbing and shooting soldiers that landed with no real intention of fighting.
The only thing the Israelis did “wrong” was not originally landing with sufficient force to put down a lynch mob.
[quote]PonceDeLeon wrote:
So the soldiers were provoked because the passengers attacked them?
Or were the passengers provoked when they saw commandos rappel down from helicopters onto the ship, panic and decide to retaliate?
How easy is it to identify paintball guns - let alone expect the commandos to be carrying non-lethal weapons - in the DARK?
[/quote]
Well, the other 6 (was it 6?) ships seemed to do just fine with THEIR reactions. Imagine that.
But your point is that the passengers thought they were REAL guns, and so decided to attack with sticks and knives? Something is wrong with that logic, I fear… [/quote]
Well, the other 5 ships went peacefully to Ashdod, followed by Mavi Marmara, and guess what happened to all that “urgently neeeded” aid?
That’s right, it was rejected by Hamas, even after the passengers were deported. Perhaps the aid was worthless once sullied by Israeli hands. Apparently the propaganda value of this whole sorry provocation was worth more to Hamas than the substance of the humanitarian aid would be to the Gazans.
[quote]DrSkeptix wrote:
[…]
Well, the other 5 ships went peacefully to Ashdod, followed by Mavi Marmara, and guess what happened to all that “urgently neeeded” aid?
That’s right, it was rejected by Hamas, even after the passengers were deported. Perhaps the aid was worthless once sullied by Israeli hands. Apparently the propaganda value of this whole sorry provocation was worth more to Hamas than the substance of the humanitarian aid would be to the Gazans.[/quote]
I think it goes without saying that none of the actors (Israel, Hamas, Turkey’s AKP government, the flotilla organisers) involved have been fully trustworthy and have at some point valued the PR stemming from the situation higher than the needs of the civilian Gazan population. What a shame.
