one sentence clears this up: state terrorisme ( they shoot civilians, this is what I call terrorisme ).
[quote]florelius wrote:
one sentence clears this up: state terrorisme ( they shoot civilians, this is what I call terrorisme ).[/quote]
They intentionally shoot innocent civilians who are just going around minding their own business? Since when? Certainly not in this case.
[quote]OrcusDM wrote:
Just to start, I’m not trying to be confrontational, just to start a debate.
As far as I’m concerned, Israel had no other choice than to intercept these ships.
No-one had officially informed them of the ships, no-one had searched the ships, and Israel have a bit of a problem with people smuggling in mortars and rifles.
As for the conduct of the interception, I’d like to wait until the report. Both sides claim the other side instigated gun fire, and I have no idea as I’m not on the boat.
Any other perspectives?[/quote]
Here is a rundown on many of the participants from Arab media.
including
“The Jordanian flotilla delegation included Muslim Brotherhood in Jordan activists such as delegation head Wael Al-Saka, a veteran Muslim Brotherhood member,[7] and Salam Al-Falahat, who was general guide of the Muslim Brotherhood in Jordan from 2006 to 2008.”
"… Hussein Shaker, is known as “Abu Al-Shuhada” (“Father of the Martyrs”). He has reportedly expressed a desire to meet “his martyrs” (i.e. relatives killed during the 2006 Lebanon war), and has called his participation in the flotilla revenge for their deaths.[6] "
"The Egyptian flotilla delegation included two members of the Muslim Brotherhood bloc in the Egyptian parliament: Muhammad Al-Baltaji and Hazem Farouq.
Al-Baltaji, who is deputy secretary-general of the Muslim Brotherhood parliamentary bloc in Egypt, said at a March 2010 conference, “A nation that excels at dying will be blessed by Allah with a life of dignity and with eternal paradise.” He also said that his movement “will never recognize Israel and will never abandon the resistance,” and that “resistance is the only road map that can save Jerusalem, restore the Arab honor, and prevent Palestine from becoming a second Andalusia.[1]”
Etc etc.
I heard that the Turkish Government is going to have the Turkish Navy escourt the next flotila. This might escalate faster than we all think.
If I was Israel, I would stay in my soverign waters, and wait for the Turkish Navy to come on in with the flotila. That point that is an act of agression, and Israel can defend itself as it sees fit.
[quote]phaethon wrote:
[quote]florelius wrote:
one sentence clears this up: state terrorisme ( they shoot civilians, this is what I call terrorisme ).[/quote]
They intentionally shoot innocent civilians who are just going around minding their own business? Since when? Certainly not in this case.[/quote]
I was a humanitarian convoi, they shot at it, and civiliian activists died, how is that not terrorisme.
[quote]dmaddox wrote:
I heard that the Turkish Government is going to have the Turkish Navy escourt the next flotila. This might escalate faster than we all think.
If I was Israel, I would stay in my soverign waters, and wait for the Turkish Navy to come on in with the flotila. That point that is an act of agression, and Israel can defend itself as it sees fit.[/quote]
This is retarded.
[quote]florelius wrote:
[quote]phaethon wrote:
[quote]florelius wrote:
one sentence clears this up: state terrorisme ( they shoot civilians, this is what I call terrorisme ).[/quote]
They intentionally shoot innocent civilians who are just going around minding their own business? Since when? Certainly not in this case.[/quote]
I was a humanitarian convoi, they shot at it, and civiliian activists died, how is that not terrorisme.
[/quote]
They had the opportunity to have the aid delivered and chose to try to run a blockade instead. then attacked the soldier who came aboard and tried to kill them. Did you watch the video?
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]dmaddox wrote:
I heard that the Turkish Government is going to have the Turkish Navy escourt the next flotila. This might escalate faster than we all think.
If I was Israel, I would stay in my soverign waters, and wait for the Turkish Navy to come on in with the flotila. That point that is an act of agression, and Israel can defend itself as it sees fit.[/quote]
This is retarded.[/quote]
My post retarted, or Turkey planning on using their Navy?
[quote]dmaddox wrote:
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
[quote]dmaddox wrote:
I heard that the Turkish Government is going to have the Turkish Navy escourt the next flotila. This might escalate faster than we all think.
If I was Israel, I would stay in my soverign waters, and wait for the Turkish Navy to come on in with the flotila. That point that is an act of agression, and Israel can defend itself as it sees fit.[/quote]
This is retarded.[/quote]
My post retarted, or Turkey planning on using their Navy?[/quote]
The situation. Turkey specifically. It’s almost like they are trying to instigate conflict…
[quote]florelius wrote:
[quote]phaethon wrote:
[quote]florelius wrote:
one sentence clears this up: state terrorisme ( they shoot civilians, this is what I call terrorisme ).[/quote]
They intentionally shoot innocent civilians who are just going around minding their own business? Since when? Certainly not in this case.[/quote]
I was a humanitarian convoi, they shot at it, and civiliian activists died, how is that not terrorisme.
[/quote]
You were a humanitarian that runs a blockade and you are thinking they are not going to board you? Then when boarded youstart swinging metal rods, using knifes, and beating on a commando, and you do not think you going to be shot at?
I dare you to go running into your local police station swinging around a metal rod trying to hit a police officer in the head. If that does not work pull out a knife and try and stab the police officer. Lets see what happens to you. Report back to us from prison.
[quote]florelius wrote:
[quote]phaethon wrote:
[quote]florelius wrote:
one sentence clears this up: state terrorisme ( they shoot civilians, this is what I call terrorisme ).[/quote]
They intentionally shoot innocent civilians who are just going around minding their own business? Since when? Certainly not in this case.[/quote]
I was a humanitarian convoi, they shot at it, and civiliian activists died, how is that not terrorisme.
Well…because…you dont have a single fact correct?
[/quote]
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
[quote]OrcusDM wrote:
Just to start, I’m not trying to be confrontational, just to start a debate.
As far as I’m concerned, Israel had no other choice than to intercept these ships.
No-one had officially informed them of the ships, no-one had searched the ships, and Israel have a bit of a problem with people smuggling in mortars and rifles.
As for the conduct of the interception, I’d like to wait until the report. Both sides claim the other side instigated gun fire, and I have no idea as I’m not on the boat.
Any other perspectives?[/quote]
Good post. Yes, Israel had every right to demand that these people stop and be searched. Only fucking evil people would demand that Israel just sit and watch.
If I saw something like this approaching my shores and they refused to stop, I’d have fire bombed the whole thing.
[/quote]
This thread is full of “fucking evil people”, including that Nazi who accuses Christians of having Stockholm syndrome to Jews.
I just wish Israel had firebombed this ship instead of wasting its soldiers on thses jihadis.
BTW, a video describing what an Israeli soldier saw is here:
http://idfspokesperson.com/2010/06/01/recording-idf-soldiers-report-attacks-from-the-flotilla-activists-on-board-the-marmara-1-june-2010/
Jew-haters will sneer and deride this video. Normal people will be intereetd to learn more.
There are also pictures/video of the weapons, Kevlar vests, knives etc found on the Ship of Jihad.
Lots more updates on the site itself.
[quote]weby wrote:
Its funny how every time you speak up against the apartheid regime of Israel you get labelled as anti-semitic…"
That’s because when you call this country an apartheid regime you’re being antiSemitic.
the real apartheid countries are the Arb Muslim nations who don’t allow non-Muslims into Mecca and Medina, who ethnically cleansed their countries of Jews arounfd 1948 when they attacked the newly declared State of Israel, who are so racists they call black [people slaves.
Lebanon does not allow Palestinians to work in over 60 professions or to receive medical aid or hospital care if sick or to become citizens. (Quite frankly after the atrocities committed there by the PLO I dont’ blame them.
Jordan rescinded the Jordanian citizenship of Palestinians there.
Kuwait threw out 33000 Palestinians in the early 90s in the first Gulf war.
Israel has Palestinian citizens, who work and study there, they get free hospital care whoever they are - EVEN TERRORISTS - and they send aid INTO GAZA EVERY SINGLE DAY.
Muslims have always hated their former dhimmis gaining independence and they can’t stand the fact that the Jews are not under their genocidal boot, hence their genocidal hatred.
theyr’e massacring Christians in the Middle East, throwing acid in girls’ faces when they won’t wear the veil, hamas brought back Sharia law and crucifixion to the gaza territories and fire rockets at every opportunity into Israel at its civilians.
They are the infant abusive male writ large and they made a religion out of it, with a human Rottweiler as their beloved Prophet, and the fact they follow his conduct shows us all what he was and what they are.
nuffsaid!!!
Before Israel existed jews and arabs lived in peace and there are many jews out there who claim this, people in Jerusalem coexisted peacefully, Zionism destroyed all that Zionism is the root of all evil in the middle east, it is the reason for 9/11 and 7/7 in my own country. The Israeli propagandists on this forum all you need to do is youtube the word Israel see what this brutal state does.
Zionism=Terrorism
all of you who claim there were weapons on the flotilla here is what an israeli on board the flotilla had to say:
A member of the Israeli Parliament (Knesset) who was onboard the Gaza-destined aid convoy when it came under Israeli fire dismisses allegations that the Freedom Flotilla was carrying weapons.
Haneen Zuabi, a senior member of the Balad party, was among hundreds of activist aboard the Freedom Flotilla, which was comprised of nine ships carrying thousand of tons of humanitarian aid for the impoverished people of the Gaza Strip.
In comments following her release in the Ashdod port on Wednesday, Zuabi disputed Israel’s claims that the ship was carrying weapons for the Palestinian Resistance Movement of Hamas.
“Our goal was to break the siege. We had no plans for a confrontation. Israel carried out a provocative military operation. Israel is used to doing as it pleases with the Palestinians. The main problem is not the ship, but the siege.” She added.
On Monday, commandos acting upon direct orders from Israeli Defense Minister Ehud Barak stormed the aid convoy, leaving at least 20 people dead and more than 50 others injured.
The member of Knesset also said that Israeli forces were seeking to leave behind a high number of casualties.
“It was clear from the size of the force that boarded the ship that the purpose was not only to stop this sail, but to cause the largest possible number of fatalities in order to stop such initiatives in the future,” Zuabi said.
The assault sent shockwaves around the world, prompting two countries to withdraw their ambassadors from Tel Aviv and many others summon Israeli envoys.
The United Nations Security Council held an emergency meeting in which the 15-nation body called for an “impartial, credible and transparent” probe into the incident and condemned “those acts which resulted in the loss of … civilians and many wounded.”
[quote]weby wrote:
all of you who claim there were weapons on the flotilla here is what an israeli on board the flotilla had to say:
A member of the Israeli Parliament (Knesset) who was onboard the Gaza-destined aid convoy when it came under Israeli fire dismisses allegations that the Freedom Flotilla was carrying weapons.
Haneen Zuabi, a senior member of the Balad party, was among hundreds of activist aboard the Freedom Flotilla, which was comprised of nine ships carrying thousand of tons of humanitarian aid for the impoverished people of the Gaza Strip.
In comments following her release in the Ashdod port on Wednesday, Zuabi disputed Israel’s claims that the ship was carrying weapons for the Palestinian Resistance Movement of Hamas.
“Our goal was to break the siege. We had no plans for a confrontation. Israel carried out a provocative military operation. Israel is used to doing as it pleases with the Palestinians. The main problem is not the ship, but the siege.” She added.
On Monday, commandos acting upon direct orders from Israeli Defense Minister Ehud Barak stormed the aid convoy, leaving at least 20 people dead and more than 50 others injured.
The member of Knesset also said that Israeli forces were seeking to leave behind a high number of casualties.
“It was clear from the size of the force that boarded the ship that the purpose was not only to stop this sail, but to cause the largest possible number of fatalities in order to stop such initiatives in the future,” Zuabi said.
The assault sent shockwaves around the world, prompting two countries to withdraw their ambassadors from Tel Aviv and many others summon Israeli envoys.
The United Nations Security Council held an emergency meeting in which the 15-nation body called for an “impartial, credible and transparent” probe into the incident and condemned “those acts which resulted in the loss of … civilians and many wounded.”
[/quote]
aside from having multiple verifiable facts wrong, he does at least admit their purpose had nothing to do with delivering aid.
[quote]weby wrote:
"Our goal was to break the siege. We had no plans for a confrontation.
[/quote]
Proof that she is either stupid or a lying hag. Those two sentences are contradictory.
It is like saying “My goal was to steal your car. I had no plans for a confrontation”.
source: Activists describe Israeli raid on Gaza aid convoy - BBC News
Eyewitness reports:
Norman Paech, a former member of Germany’s Left Party, was aboard the Mavi Marmara, the largest of the six ships in the convoy.
Speaking at a news conference in Berlin, he said the ship was surrounded by small Israeli assault boats on Monday morning at about 0430 local time.
"Moments later, we heard detonations and then soldiers from helicopters above us dropped down on board.
“The soldiers were all masked, carrying big guns and were extremely brutal.”
Mr Paech said he only saw three activists resisting.
“They had no knives, no axes, only sticks that they used to defend themselves,” he told reporters.
But he said he could “not rule out” that others used weapons somewhere else on the boat.
NILUFER CETIN, TURKEY
Turkish activist Nilufer Cetin told reporters she hid with her baby in the bathroom of her cabin aboard the Mavi Marmara.
“When the Mavi Marmara continued on its course, the harassment [from Israeli ships] turned into an attack,” she said.
"They used smoke bombs followed by gas canisters. They started to descend onto the ship with helicopters.
"It [the violence] was extremely bad and brutal. The ship turned into a lake of blood.
"I was one of the first victims to be released because I had a child. They confiscated everything, our telephones, laptops are all gone.
“We were aware of the possible danger [in joining the trip] but there are thousands of babies in Gaza. If we had reached Gaza we would have played with them and taken them food.”
DIMITRIS GIELALIS, GREECE
Activist Dimitris Gielalis, who had been aboard the Sfendoni, was among six Greeks who returned home on Tuesday.
“Suddenly from everywhere we saw inflatables coming at us, and within seconds fully equipped commandos came up on the boat,” he said.
“They came up and used plastic bullets, we had beatings, we had electric shocks, any method we can think of, they used.”
Mr Gielalis said the boat’s captain was beaten for refusing to leave the wheel, and had sustained non-life-threatening injuries, while a cameraman filming the raid was hit with a rifle butt in the eye.
“Of course we weren’t prepared for a situation of war,” he said.
ARIS PAPADOKOSTOPOULOS, GREECE
Aris Papadokostopoulos was aboard the Free Mediterranean, travelling behind the Mavi Marmara and carrying mainly Greek and Swedish activists.
"The Turkish ship [the Mavi Marmara] was in front of us… on which there was a terrible raid from the air and from the sea and from everywhere, with shooting.
Mr Papadokostopoulos said that aboard the other boats, commandos beat activists but nobody was gravely injured.
He said no one put up resistance on the Free Mediterranean, which was carrying a cargo of wheelchairs, building material and medical and pharmaceutical aid.
“Some people were hit by clubs and electric shocks. During their interrogation, many of them were badly beaten in front of us,” he said.