Is this Routine Suited for my Goals

Bigger Stronger Leaner
41

[quote]jskrabac wrote:
Am I the only one who read the part about not being able to squat just the bar out benching the bar with 2 5s on it?

This is like discussing what type of 401k plan is best with a 2 year old.

You should not be doing any programs listed in this thread until you learn to properly do all the basic movement patterns of resistance training. [/quote]

That’s because I did bench for sometime and didn’t do squats. I have been doing bench, but haven’t been doing squats. When the bar on the bench was too heavy I went to the smith to bench something less than 20kg (usually the bench’s bar weight) when I could some plates on the smith machine bar, I went to the bench bar and could do it with 5lbs plates, isn’t the same applicable to squats ?

42

[quote]getmynameright wrote:

[quote]jskrabac wrote:
Am I the only one who read the part about not being able to squat just the bar out benching the bar with 2 5s on it?

This is like discussing what type of 401k plan is best with a 2 year old.

You should not be doing any programs listed in this thread until you learn to properly do all the basic movement patterns of resistance training. [/quote]

That’s because I did bench for sometime and didn’t do squats. I have been doing bench, but haven’t been doing squats. When the bar on the bench was too heavy I went to the smith to bench something less than 20kg (usually the bench’s bar weight) when I could some plates on the smith machine bar, I went to the bench bar and could do it with 5lbs plates, isn’t the same applicable to squats ?[/quote]

Not the same. Both are misguided. You should’ve started benching with DBs and you should be learning to squat with your bodyweight, a broom stick, and a box.

43

[quote]jskrabac wrote:

[quote]getmynameright wrote:

[quote]jskrabac wrote:
Am I the only one who read the part about not being able to squat just the bar out benching the bar with 2 5s on it?

This is like discussing what type of 401k plan is best with a 2 year old.

You should not be doing any programs listed in this thread until you learn to properly do all the basic movement patterns of resistance training. [/quote]

That’s because I did bench for sometime and didn’t do squats. I have been doing bench, but haven’t been doing squats. When the bar on the bench was too heavy I went to the smith to bench something less than 20kg (usually the bench’s bar weight) when I could some plates on the smith machine bar, I went to the bench bar and could do it with 5lbs plates, isn’t the same applicable to squats ?[/quote]

Not the same. Both are misguided. You should’ve started benching with DBs and you should be learning to squat with your bodyweight, a broom stick, and a box.
[/quote]

I’ve had plenty of success teaching people to goblet squat before barbell squatting. If OP is struggling to squat with an empty bar, I would suggest that would be all he needs for many months yet.

44

[quote]dagill2 wrote:

[quote]jskrabac wrote:

[quote]getmynameright wrote:

[quote]jskrabac wrote:
Am I the only one who read the part about not being able to squat just the bar out benching the bar with 2 5s on it?

This is like discussing what type of 401k plan is best with a 2 year old.

You should not be doing any programs listed in this thread until you learn to properly do all the basic movement patterns of resistance training. [/quote]

That’s because I did bench for sometime and didn’t do squats. I have been doing bench, but haven’t been doing squats. When the bar on the bench was too heavy I went to the smith to bench something less than 20kg (usually the bench’s bar weight) when I could some plates on the smith machine bar, I went to the bench bar and could do it with 5lbs plates, isn’t the same applicable to squats ?[/quote]

Not the same. Both are misguided. You should’ve started benching with DBs and you should be learning to squat with your bodyweight, a broom stick, and a box.
[/quote]

I’ve had plenty of success teaching people to goblet squat before barbell squatting. If OP is struggling to squat with an empty bar, I would suggest that would be all he needs for many months yet.
[/quote]
Goblet squats or box squats, yes. Smith machine squats, no. There’s nothing about a smith machine squat that prepares you to squat with a barbell.

45

[quote]jskrabac wrote:

[quote]getmynameright wrote:

[quote]jskrabac wrote:
Am I the only one who read the part about not being able to squat just the bar out benching the bar with 2 5s on it?

This is like discussing what type of 401k plan is best with a 2 year old.

You should not be doing any programs listed in this thread until you learn to properly do all the basic movement patterns of resistance training. [/quote]

That’s because I did bench for sometime and didn’t do squats. I have been doing bench, but haven’t been doing squats. When the bar on the bench was too heavy I went to the smith to bench something less than 20kg (usually the bench’s bar weight) when I could some plates on the smith machine bar, I went to the bench bar and could do it with 5lbs plates, isn’t the same applicable to squats ?[/quote]

Not the same. Both are misguided. You should’ve started benching with DBs and you should be learning to squat with your bodyweight, a broom stick, and a box.
[/quote]

I don’t see the line of logic regarding his bench.

He couldn’t bench the bar. He benched in the smith machine. Now he can bench the bar plus 5lbs per side for reps. You are saying it didn’t work?

46

[quote]dagill2 wrote:

[quote]jskrabac wrote:
Not the same. Both are misguided. You should’ve started benching with DBs and you should be learning to squat with your bodyweight, a broom stick, and a box.
[/quote]

I’ve had plenty of success teaching people to goblet squat before barbell squatting. If OP is struggling to squat with an empty bar, I would suggest that would be all he needs for many months yet.
[/quote]

How does the weight he is capable of squatting determine how he should start squatting? If he was strong enough to squat 135lbs the first time, would he also have to do box squats or goblet squats?

47

pcdude wrote:

What if his leg muscles are simply too weak and undeveloped? Will smith machine squats not build them?

48

You guys made me realize something: You all contradict each other with different things and all have different opinions lol. I can never be sure what is correct in the different aspects lolssss

To dt79: You agree with the technique of using the smith and it is logical since it worked for me with bench press. It is true but when you think about it so that I include stabilizer Muscles it would be the same to start with 5kgs dumbell flat bench, but I started out with smitch and now can do clean reps with the bench bar the smallest plates. THat’s something

49

[quote]getmynameright wrote:
You guys made me realize something: You all contradict each other with different things and all have different opinions lol. I can never be sure what is correct in the different aspects lolssss
[/quote]

Because, as everyone has been saying for the last fucking couple of pages, THERE IS NO RIGHT ANSWER.

You find what works for you and you squeeze the life out of it until it no longer works for you. Then you find something else that works for you and then you do the same.

Seriously, it’s not a hard concept to understand.

50

[quote]getmynameright wrote:
You guys made me realize something: You all contradict each other with different things and all have different opinions lol. I can never be sure what is correct in the different aspects lolssss

To dt79: You agree with the technique of using the smith and it is logical since it worked for me with bench press. It is true but when you think about it so that I include stabilizer Muscles it would be the same to start with 5kgs dumbell flat bench, but I started out with smitch and now can do clean reps with the bench bar the smallest plates. THat’s something[/quote]

Yes, people’s opinions differ. But it doesn’t mean they’re wrong as long as the rationale behind their opinions is sound. This is the difference between a beginner reading and regurgitating info they read and those who have actual experience. There are many different methods you can use to reach your goals.

Regarding the smith machine…

In your case, you strengthened the muscles involved in the bench, which were terribly weak at the start. Your drastic weight loss may have something to do with it. Which leads me to believe you will make rather fast strength gains just by eating in a caloric surplus. Dumbbells would have worked as well. Maybe even better.

This does not mean the technique of the normal bench is the same as the bench in the smith machine. It is very much different, and it will benefit you a lot to have someone giving you cues in real life.

EDIT:
The important thing is to keep an open mind so that if your trainer in real life makes you do something different from what you’ve read online, you will do as told rather than question and overthink things, which will be far more detrimental to your progress than failing to find the most “optimal” method.

51

[quote]magick wrote:

[quote]getmynameright wrote:
You guys made me realize something: You all contradict each other with different things and all have different opinions lol. I can never be sure what is correct in the different aspects lolssss
[/quote]

Because, as everyone has been saying for the last fucking couple of pages, THERE IS NO RIGHT ANSWER.

You find what works for you and you squeeze the life out of it until it no longer works for you. Then you find something else that works for you and then you do the same.

Seriously, it’s not a hard concept to understand.[/quote]

I get that dude but I can’t get one thing:

Why is it so bad to start something which is CONSIDERED EFFECTIVE ( give your input on this also) as P/P/L/dayrest/repeat instead of full body when the p/p/l as ANY EFFECTIVE split/fullbody/brosplit/idioticvolumefreaksplit routine is made up of mostly compound movements ?

Can someone give me a good p/p/l

52

Find it yourself.

53

[quote]getmynameright wrote:
I get that dude but I can’t get one thing:

Why is it so bad to start something which is CONSIDERED EFFECTIVE ( give your input on this also) as P/P/L/dayrest/repeat instead of full body when the p/p/l as ANY EFFECTIVE split/fullbody/brosplit/idioticvolumefreaksplit routine is made up of mostly compound movements ?

Can someone give me a good p/p/l[/quote]

I don’t understand your first question. Who says anything is bad?

As for the 2nd question, why don’t you find one yourself?

54

[quote]getmynameright wrote:

[quote]magick wrote:

[quote]getmynameright wrote:
You guys made me realize something: You all contradict each other with different things and all have different opinions lol. I can never be sure what is correct in the different aspects lolssss
[/quote]

Because, as everyone has been saying for the last fucking couple of pages, THERE IS NO RIGHT ANSWER.

You find what works for you and you squeeze the life out of it until it no longer works for you. Then you find something else that works for you and then you do the same.

Seriously, it’s not a hard concept to understand.[/quote]

I get that dude but I can’t get one thing:

Why is it so bad to start something which is CONSIDERED EFFECTIVE ( give your input on this also) as P/P/L/dayrest/repeat instead of full body when the p/p/l as ANY EFFECTIVE split/fullbody/brosplit/idioticvolumefreaksplit routine is made up of mostly compound movements ?

Can someone give me a good p/p/l[/quote]

Because the various incarnations of 5x5 are simple and effective and have sold well as brand names. Thus people like that stronglifts guy and Jason Blaha jump on the bandwagon with their own versions to appeal to an audience already sold on this method. To make your own program/ method stand out, of course you have to say other programs are ineffective or for steroid users.

The good thing about fullbody programs like starting strength is that they have a built in progression model which requires the trainee to consistantly add weight to the bar.

You can do the same with anything else by… consistantly adding weight to the bar.

55

Because I think I can benefit more from you guys giving me a probably already used one and good one ? Most of search results give templates and for a 3 on one off bodybuilding

56

[quote]getmynameright wrote:
Because I think I can benefit more from you guys giving me a probably already used one and good one ? Most of search results give templates and for a 3 on one off bodybuilding [/quote]

Read, study the responses, and just pick one.

57

Found something not exactly PPL but somethin I thinnk it is cool , I would ask you guys to have a look at it. It is still a 3 day on ; one off routine

Day 1 : Chest/Arms

-Flat Barbell Bench 3x6-8
-Incline Dumbbell Bench 3x6-8
-Flat Dumbbell Flye 3x8-10
-Dips 3x10-12

  • Cable Crossover performed every 2nd-3rd session *

-Barbell Curl 3x6-8 / Lying French Press 3x6-8
-Incline Dumbbell Curl 3x8-10 / Tricep Pressdown 3x10-12
-Preacher Curl 3x8-10/ Overhead Extension 3x8-10

Workout Duration : Approximately 45-60 minutes

Day 2 : Legs/Calves

-Back Squats 3x6-8 (alternate with Front Squats)
-Leg Press 3x8-10
-Leg Extension 3x10-12
-Romanian Deadlift 3x6-8

  • Leg Curls performed every 2nd-3rd session *

-Calf Press 3x15-20
-Standing Calf Raise 3x15-20
-Seated Calf Raise 3x6-10

Workout Duration : Approximately 40-50 minutes

Day 3 : Back/Delts

-Barbell Row 3x6-8
-Lat Pulldown 3x10-12
-Cable Row 3x8-10
-TBAR Row 3x6-8 (Dumbbell Row if heavy enough DB’s)

  • Shrugs performed every 2nd-3rd session *

-Military Press 3x6-8
-Side Lateral / Rear Lateral 3x8-10
-Upright Row 3x6-8

*Face Pulls performed @ end for shoulder health

Authors only notes are: where the exercises are separated by / it means that they are supersetted but they can be done one by one if you can stay more in the gym

58

[quote]dt79 wrote:

[quote]jskrabac wrote:

[quote]getmynameright wrote:

[quote]jskrabac wrote:
Am I the only one who read the part about not being able to squat just the bar out benching the bar with 2 5s on it?

This is like discussing what type of 401k plan is best with a 2 year old.

You should not be doing any programs listed in this thread until you learn to properly do all the basic movement patterns of resistance training. [/quote]

That’s because I did bench for sometime and didn’t do squats. I have been doing bench, but haven’t been doing squats. When the bar on the bench was too heavy I went to the smith to bench something less than 20kg (usually the bench’s bar weight) when I could some plates on the smith machine bar, I went to the bench bar and could do it with 5lbs plates, isn’t the same applicable to squats ?[/quote]

Not the same. Both are misguided. You should’ve started benching with DBs and you should be learning to squat with your bodyweight, a broom stick, and a box.
[/quote]

I don’t see the line of logic regarding his bench.

He couldn’t bench the bar. He benched in the smith machine. Now he can bench the bar plus 5lbs per side for reps. You are saying it didn’t work?[/quote]

No offense, but from your last few posts I am gathering one of the following

  1. you are a beginner yourself
  2. you’re playing devil’s advocate
  3. you never had mobility or structural issues or any serious injury limitations so far in your lifting career…especially the beginning. You had no serious trouble learning the basic movement patterns.

I’m going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume 3 for now.

You will not find a single reputable coach who endorses beginning with smith machine to train new lifters in the squatting or bench.

Part of me still thinks you’re just fucking around though. BB + 5lbs per is evidence the smith machine “worked?” C’mon.

59

[quote]dt79 wrote:

[quote]dagill2 wrote:

[quote]jskrabac wrote:
Not the same. Both are misguided. You should’ve started benching with DBs and you should be learning to squat with your bodyweight, a broom stick, and a box.
[/quote]

I’ve had plenty of success teaching people to goblet squat before barbell squatting. If OP is struggling to squat with an empty bar, I would suggest that would be all he needs for many months yet.
[/quote]

How does the weight he is capable of squatting determine how he should start squatting? If he was strong enough to squat 135lbs the first time, would he also have to do box squats or goblet squats?[/quote]

The weight doesn’t play a part for me, it’s the fact he hasn’t stepped into a gym until about a week ago.

60

[quote]jskrabac wrote:

[quote]dt79 wrote:

[quote]jskrabac wrote:

[quote]getmynameright wrote:

[quote]jskrabac wrote:
Am I the only one who read the part about not being able to squat just the bar out benching the bar with 2 5s on it?

This is like discussing what type of 401k plan is best with a 2 year old.

You should not be doing any programs listed in this thread until you learn to properly do all the basic movement patterns of resistance training. [/quote]

That’s because I did bench for sometime and didn’t do squats. I have been doing bench, but haven’t been doing squats. When the bar on the bench was too heavy I went to the smith to bench something less than 20kg (usually the bench’s bar weight) when I could some plates on the smith machine bar, I went to the bench bar and could do it with 5lbs plates, isn’t the same applicable to squats ?[/quote]

Not the same. Both are misguided. You should’ve started benching with DBs and you should be learning to squat with your bodyweight, a broom stick, and a box.
[/quote]

I don’t see the line of logic regarding his bench.

He couldn’t bench the bar. He benched in the smith machine. Now he can bench the bar plus 5lbs per side for reps. You are saying it didn’t work?[/quote]

No offense, but from your last few posts I am gathering one of the following

  1. you are a beginner yourself
  2. you’re playing devil’s advocate
  3. you never had mobility or structural issues or any serious injury limitations so far in your lifting career…especially the beginning. You had no serious trouble learning the basic movement patterns.

I’m going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume 3 for now.

You will not find a single reputable coach who endorses beginning with smith machine to train new lifters in the squatting or bench.

Part of me still thinks you’re just fucking around though. BB + 5lbs per is evidence the smith machine “worked?” C’mon. [/quote]

I realise my last sentence may have sounded offensive in writing but do understand that the tone was meant to be lighthearted and not sarcastic.

I started training in 1996 and continued even through military service in 1998 to 2000 and stopped around 2003. During the last 2 years I was assisted. I started again last year so you may call me a beginner if you feel like it.

I am relating the experience of a generation that trained before everyone got their information from the internet and online wannabe coaches.

My old training partners are still training and the person that first guided us became the coach of the national bodybuilding team of a country I will not mention in the early 2000s and still coaches some national level competitors today.

If somehow we all got it wrong, there would be a lot more developed people in the gym today. I don’t see them.

I am terribly immobile but have had no severe injuries even when squatting 180kg in the military and using that weight for reps thereafter until I began using AAS. I do, however, have a shoulder overuse injury from doing excessive pullups.

I find it surprising that prior to all the articles on mobility, I have not seen anyone limited by such things when starting out. But I do believe it to be essential for more advanced lifters.

No one said anything about using the smith machine to teach new lifters how to squat or bench.

I wrote that the smith machine will strengthen and develope muscles involved in the squat and bench.

Can he not practice technique with a broomstick WHILE building his legs with the smith machine squat and leg press for the time being? He said he lost a large amount of weight in 3 months prior without any resistance training. Don’t you think he will increase his strength rapidly with any form of stimulation?

I also told him that bench technique is far different than benching in the smith machine and he should seek guidance in real life since he has the resources instead of finding info online.

It is evidence that it worked FOR HIM because he can at least bench the bar for reps, not that it will work for everyone. I also did write that dumbbells may have worked better. What he did was not optimal but there was progress.

My belief is that if he really has the drive to progress, he will seek help in real life. He will watch big guys train and pester them for advice and ask to train with them. He will do whatever it takes to reach his goals and to do that, he needs to learn to let his results dictate his actions and understand that all this is as much an art as it is a science.

If not, he will become one of those kids with their latest programs and notebooks meticulously recording their sets and reps and overanalysing everything but not progressing month after month.

EDIT:

PS,

My statements about beginners were not about anyone here. It was a reference to getting his info from people on bodybuilding dot com. See his first few posts where he was having doubts when “everyone” told him to do 5x5 fullbody programs.