[quote]JoeG254 wrote:
I wish this guy would post a picture, I’v e always wondered what a Nazi troll looks like. Is it a shorter hairier version of Hitler?[/quote]
There were pictures of him on an old thread that might have been deleted. Typical skinny kid.
[quote]UkpairehMombooto wrote:
I;m not sure if youre clear about what I;m talking about, but I;ll say this. its NOT as cut and dry as you assume it is…if it was ONLY about HTMU recruitment and fatigue, we would have mass monsters walking around with neurobiology degrees and little to no assistance.
[/quote]
I believe that the whole issue is much more cut and dry than you think it is. When it comes down to it we DO understand the physiology and mechanisms behind muscle hypertrophy- it is not a mystery shrouded in anecdotal evidence.
People can make the whole process of building muscle much more complicated than what it needs to be by looking for things like special set schemes, or training tactics, or ways to “trick” the body with crazy exercises.
We understand how muscles grow, what stimulates them to grow, and the type of nutrition needed for them to grow. It is that there is TOO much extra information out there that is clogging up our thought processes.
[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
Lorisco wrote:
The issue is that it has been shown that force production is reduced for up to 10 days after DOMS. Meaning that even after the sore feeling is gone your muscles still cannot produce the same level of force again for almost two weeks. So unless you are using a split that allows you to work the same muscle only every two weeks, it is likely that you are limiting your progress.
Shown where though, in laboratories? In the real world countless people get DOMS and still progress the next time that muscle comes around. I know I do.
Personally, I find that two different approaching work in this regard. Either training extremely hard and then rotate in less intense workouts to help the recovery (cycle), or train at a level that is just a little more intense (more weight or volume) than the previous workout and progress consistently. Either method works. But training balls to the wall constantly will just mean you will stop progressing quickly and will not be able to gain over the long haul.
Yes, both of those approaches would work. The thing with the second approach is, if you are already training very intensely and creating DOMS. Then adding weight or slightly more volume the next time around is still likely going to cause DOMS. So, the DOMS doesn’t seem to negatively affect progress. There are quite a few very successful programs which revolve around this approach, and yes they cause DOMS.[/quote]
Yes, these were university studies.
But I agree it is a very individual thing as people have different recovery abilities.
Also, my point is not that you must never get DOMS. My point is that your training goal should not be DOMS. Your goal should be to progress in whatever parameters you have set for yourself. I do also admit that the degree DOMS would negatively effect progress depends on your goals. For a bodybuilder this may not be a big issue, but for a strength athlete it would be a factor.
[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
Nominal Prospect wrote:
I could not disagree with this more. If you want to develop balance and coordination, nothing will get you there faster than doing bodyweight exercises.
I don’t know about that. I’m not saying that bodyweight exercises don’t build balance and coordination, but unless you’re talking about high level gymnastics exercises I don’t see how bodyweight exercises would be superior to weighted exercises.
[/quote]
Body weight exercises can be effective if done with single limb protocols. With single limb you can get enough load to have it be as effective as exercises with a mechanical load.
heres a study thats pretty interesting:
http://www.diva-portal.org/umu/reports/abstract.xsql?dbid=105
and heres another thread about DOMS: (i posted that study on that thread as well)
http://www.T-Nation.com/tmagnum/readTopic.do?id=1659839
[quote]passionhawaii wrote:
heres a study thats pretty interesting:
http://www.diva-portal.org/umu/reports/abstract.xsql?dbid=105
and heres another thread about DOMS: (i posted that study on that thread as well)
http://www.T-Nation.com/tmagnum/readTopic.do?id=1659839[/quote]
This is huge!
This means that the pain from DOMS is due to remodeling (growth) not a breakdown of myofibrillas (muscle fibers). Other studies show that if you hit the weights again during this time that you will not get sore, but no further remodeling will take place.
This may make me rethink my position on DOMS from a bodybuilding perspective.
[quote]Lorisco wrote:
passionhawaii wrote:
heres a study thats pretty interesting:
http://www.diva-portal.org/umu/reports/abstract.xsql?dbid=105
and heres another thread about DOMS: (i posted that study on that thread as well)
http://www.T-Nation.com/tmagnum/readTopic.do?id=1659839
This is huge!
This means that the pain from DOMS is due to remodeling (growth) not a breakdown of myofibrillas (muscle fibers). Other studies show that if you hit the weights again during this time that you will not get sore, but no further remodeling will take place.
This may make me rethink my position on DOMS from a bodybuilding perspective.
[/quote]
Interesting, but what’s happened in the five years since it’s been published? Google scholar only had it cited by 2 articles.
[quote]HoratioSandoval wrote:
Lorisco wrote:
passionhawaii wrote:
heres a study thats pretty interesting:
http://www.diva-portal.org/umu/reports/abstract.xsql?dbid=105
and heres another thread about DOMS: (i posted that study on that thread as well)
http://www.T-Nation.com/tmagnum/readTopic.do?id=1659839
This is huge!
This means that the pain from DOMS is due to remodeling (growth) not a breakdown of myofibrillas (muscle fibers). Other studies show that if you hit the weights again during this time that you will not get sore, but no further remodeling will take place.
This may make me rethink my position on DOMS from a bodybuilding perspective.
Interesting, but what’s happened in the five years since it’s been published? Google scholar only had it cited by 2 articles.[/quote]
check: pubmed.gov
Yeah, we’re pretty much in complete agreement there.
Also true, though even with single limb protocols they are much more limited in their potential effectiveness when compared to exercises with added resistance (unless again, you are talking about really, really advanced things like gymnastics exercises, breakdancing or things of that level/nature).
And even then, coordination is movement specific (skill specific), so actually practicing the desired skill is going to be essential if you want to gain mastery of it. Any other exercises are just supplementary, regardless of whether or not they use external resistance, though can still be helpful.
[quote]passionhawaii wrote:
heres a study thats pretty interesting:
http://www.diva-portal.org/umu/reports/abstract.xsql?dbid=105
and heres another thread about DOMS: (i posted that study on that thread as well)
http://www.T-Nation.com/tmagnum/readTopic.do?id=1659839 [/quote]
Great find and very interesting article.
[quote]Lorisco wrote:
HoratioSandoval wrote:
Lorisco wrote:
passionhawaii wrote:
heres a study thats pretty interesting:
http://www.diva-portal.org/umu/reports/abstract.xsql?dbid=105
and heres another thread about DOMS: (i posted that study on that thread as well)
http://www.T-Nation.com/tmagnum/readTopic.do?id=1659839
This is huge!
This means that the pain from DOMS is due to remodeling (growth) not a breakdown of myofibrillas (muscle fibers). Other studies show that if you hit the weights again during this time that you will not get sore, but no further remodeling will take place.
This may make me rethink my position on DOMS from a bodybuilding perspective.
Interesting, but what’s happened in the five years since it’s been published? Google scholar only had it cited by 2 articles.
check: pubmed.gov
[/quote]
Nevermind - I’m dumb. That was the guy’s dissertation.
[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
Lorisco wrote:
Yes, these were university studies.
But I agree it is a very individual thing as people have different recovery abilities.
Also, my point is not that you must never get DOMS. My point is that your training goal should not be DOMS. Your goal should be to progress in whatever parameters you have set for yourself. I do also admit that the degree DOMS would negatively effect progress depends on your goals. For a bodybuilder this may not be a big issue, but for a strength athlete it would be a factor.
Yeah, we’re pretty much in complete agreement there.
Body weight exercises can be effective if done with single limb protocols. With single limb you can get enough load to have it be as effective as exercises with a mechanical load.
Also true, though even with single limb protocols they are much more limited in their potential effectiveness when compared to exercises with added resistance (unless again, you are talking about really, really advanced things like gymnastics exercises, breakdancing or things of that level/nature).
And even then, coordination is movement specific (skill specific), so actually practicing the desired skill is going to be essential if you want to gain mastery of it. Any other exercises are just supplementary, regardless of whether or not they use external resistance, though can still be helpful.[/quote]
Well, a single leg squat, extending the free leg off the ground in front of you while you squat, is quite challenging and does not require a lot of coordination. Ian King recommends doing single limb bodyweight exercises to fix muscle/strength imbalances for beginners before using compound lifts with external load. I agree with this protocol as it has been shown to prevent injury and increase strength to a greater level later.
Charles Poliquin weighs in on the issue:
“My absolute favorite routine for fast arm growth is the following post exhaustion routine…
By overloading the muscles at two different insertion points, you cause an incredible amount of micro-trauma. Expect some deep soreness.”
Case closed. Another win in my column.
[quote]Nominal Prospect wrote:
Charles Poliquin weighs in on the issue:
“My absolute favorite routine for fast arm growth is the following post exhaustion routine…
By overloading the muscles at two different insertion points, you cause an incredible amount of micro-trauma. Expect some deep soreness.”
Case closed. Another win in my column.[/quote]
Yay for you!
[quote]Nominal Prospect wrote:
Charles Poliquin weighs in on the issue:
“My absolute favorite routine for fast arm growth is the following post exhaustion routine…
By overloading the muscles at two different insertion points, you cause an incredible amount of micro-trauma. Expect some deep soreness.”
Case closed. Another win in my column.[/quote]
He said “EXPECT some deep soreness” not “soreness is mandatory” or “If you’re not sore the next day your workout was a complete failure”.
Seriously, I spent 3 YEARS focusing on DOMS and now Im playing catch up with my strength levels because for a person training for 5 years, I should be much stronger than I currently am. Those three years were wasted on focusing on DOMS and not progression.
Yeah, you didn’t make substantial strength gains because you were focused on DOMs. What’s hard to understand about that?
You lift 100 pounds. The next day you are sore.
Next week you lift 105 pounds. The next day you are not that sore.
The next week you lift 110 pounds. The next day you aren’t sore at all.
Don’t confuse soreness with effort and don’t confuse effort with results.
Are you getting stronger? It’s likely you are also getting bigger unless you’ve started some new exercise or protocol.
DOMS is related mostly to a brand new stimulus. This could be single reps, 5 reps, 10 reps, 100 reps. Whatever. I bet if you did 100 burpees nonstop you’d be sore as shit for days…is that the best way to get heuuuooooge?
Let the bar and the mirror be your guide.
[quote]Nominal Prospect wrote:
Yeah, you didn’t make substantial strength gains because you were focused on DOMs. What’s hard to understand about that?[/quote]
Are you even jacked?
I hear people saying:
My Answer â?? now this is very plain and simple. YOU DID NOT TRAIN ENOUGH, FOR UR CURRENT STATE OF BODY (UR BODY ADAPTS ALL THE TIME).
My Answer â?? plain and simple once again. YES THIS IS TRUE! HOWEVER IF U ARE SORE AND DONâ??T GET UR DIET AND SLEEP CORRECT THEN: U WILL MOST PROBABLY NOT GROW AND MAYBE EVEN GROW SMALLER.
You will need to sleep as much as your body needs and eat correctly depending on the soreness of you muscles.
My Answer â?? well helloâ?¦. YES.
OK ENOUGH WITH THIS RUBBISH.
HERE IS MY STORY:
i actually know what it feels like to over train or work so hard. i did a crzy amount of squats (about 8 weeks ago), the next day i seriously had to crawl to the toilet, YES CRAWL - HANDS AND KNEE’S. i practically: ate, tolieted, slept, ate toileted, slept… every 2 hours. YES I WOKE UP WENT TO THE TOILET AND THEN DROPPED BACK INTO BED AND SLEPT â?? MY BODY NEEDED IT. 1-2 HOURS (sometimes it was up to 5 hours) LATER i woke up again and felt very hungry I ate for 10 mins went to bed and slept. this lasted 2 days, 3rd day i was walking ok â?? still was very sore, 5th day i could walk faster â?? still was sore. i was like a disabled person. I couldnâ??t do any weights at all for 5 days. I never did do any leg weights for the next 6 weeks, as my body told me I couldnâ??t. however my mind told me I could do leg weights at weeks 4 â?? 5.
I improved alot from just this one crzy session leg workout session â?? it was worth 3 months legs training to me â?? most people donâ??t believe me (doesnt matter, ITS MY GAIN not urs). i usually only train 5 hours a week or less. however i sometimes do train up 13 hours a week. I will do this leg workout again soon (in a week or 2). I might even follow the same kind of workour for all my body parts (chest, back, etc.)
by the way: im sorta am new to bodybuilding I must say as there are people bodybuilding consistently for 10+ years, however im no beginner. Some people at my gym think im on roids with the improvements ive had over a short period of time, I wouldnâ??t touch roids this is not for me, im happy with my improvements/gains.
Gd Day!
STOP MESSING AROUND PLAYING WITH UR PEANUT.
PROGRESSION, INTENSITY, FOOD, SLEEP. ITS THE ONLY KEYS.
ITS ALL VERY BASIC. U CAN DO TECHNICAL LIL THINGS EVERY NOW AND THEN HOWEVER THE BASIC KEYS WILL ALWAYS WIN.