And before I get sucked into an endless internet pissing contest over something this trivial I want to say that if you disagree with my opinion about the width of Mike Mentzer clavicles - I’m fine with it and respect your opinion on the subject.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
ZedLeppelin wrote:
yes, you’re right, i haven’t really known anyone that’s gone from skinny to extremely developed.
Are you serious? No one around you lifts weights seriously? Not even the people at the gym? Or is it you just assume that every larger lifter you see was always like that?[/quote]
unfortunately that’s pretty much the case… a few people i know lift, but only one of them is over 200 pounds. even at the gym i rarely see a ‘big’ guy. i don’t really know what’s going on…
[quote]ZedLeppelin wrote:
Professor X wrote:
ZedLeppelin wrote:
yes, you’re right, i haven’t really known anyone that’s gone from skinny to extremely developed.
Are you serious? No one around you lifts weights seriously? Not even the people at the gym? Or is it you just assume that every larger lifter you see was always like that?
unfortunately that’s pretty much the case… a few people i know lift, but only one of them is over 200 pounds. even at the gym i rarely see a ‘big’ guy. i don’t really know what’s going on…[/quote]
I know where you’re coming from with this. My gym has maybe…3 members who would qualify as “big” in a good way.
Weird.
I have a naturally stupidly wide shoulder girdle that runs in the family and has been pointed out to me every day of my life. Stupidly wide hips too. Doorways have been my enemy since birth etc.
But I would disappear behind Markus Ruhl… genetics play a part, but 600 pound incline presses with a grip past shoulder width would have some sway too.
[quote]dhuge67 wrote:
ZedLeppelin wrote:
Professor X wrote:
ZedLeppelin wrote:
yes, you’re right, i haven’t really known anyone that’s gone from skinny to extremely developed.
Are you serious? No one around you lifts weights seriously? Not even the people at the gym? Or is it you just assume that every larger lifter you see was always like that?
unfortunately that’s pretty much the case… a few people i know lift, but only one of them is over 200 pounds. even at the gym i rarely see a ‘big’ guy. i don’t really know what’s going on…
I know where you’re coming from with this. My gym has maybe…3 members who would qualify as “big” in a good way.
Weird.[/quote]
Then why are those places called “gyms”?
Seriously, it is sad that things have gotten that way where it is now this rare to see someone who actually looks like a bodybuilder in a gym or even would qualify as “big”. I thought the area I am in now is bad but there are at least 4 other people who are impressively built.
Look at Dorian yates pics as a late teen early 20’s before lifting, and being a rouge.
I wouldl never guess his frame could amount t o a mr olympia.
So it says that yes, theree are different joint size, bone lengths and people have worked with what they had to make something…
[quote]YourXLNS wrote:
…And for the record, Larry Scott does have very narrow clavicles (compared to top bodybuilders) and Mike Mentzer has a poor hip to shoulder ratio that gives him the impression of having narrow(er) shoulders compared to other top bodybuilders. (Unless, of course, you insist on using photoshopped images)[/quote]
- No one argued with you about Scott.
- Mentzer did have a wide pelvic bone.
- The photoshop issue was already discussed, so why try to rub it in. The non-“shopped” picture proved your point wrong anyway.
Look at this, then get to the gym.
BTW no-one has mentioned seroids yet! lol
The above pic is exactly what I’m saying. Definately not an impressive frame, “muscle fibre type”, or even “spirit” beforehand, and look at the result.
Drugs do play a part, but nutrition, rest, training and the right frame of mind are very important.
[quote]ZedLeppelin wrote:
How much of shoulder width is genetic?
i don’t exactly have narrow shoulders, but i’d definitely prefer them to be wider. how much of a difference can i make through training?
i’m going to play any hand i’m dealt, but i am curious. were all these massively wide bodybuilders always broad shouldered?[/quote]
To a degree everything is genetic but dont use it as a limitation always aim to surpass your genetic limitations, especially if they are self imposed.
[quote]djrobins wrote:
Drugs do play a part, but nutrition, rest, training and the right frame of mind are very important.[/quote]
Exactly. Though some of us do need to be reminded that bodybuilding isn’t only for people with perfectly proportioned skeletons. Hell, if you have a small frame it’s easier to make certain parts (traps, for example) look impressive.
I think that while it is very possible to look much wider than you are now through training, having truly wide shoulders is pretty much up to genetics. You can make your deltoids bigger than your face, make your neck disappear by training your traps, and widen your lats and even your ribcage a bit in order to create the appearance that you’ve got wide shoulders but all that will do is make you look like a wide block of muscle whose shoulder’s bone structure in comparison to his waists size is still pretty close.
[quote]FightingScott wrote:
I think that while it is very possible to look much wider than you are now through training, having truly wide shoulders is pretty much up to genetics. You can make your deltoids bigger than your face, make your neck disappear by training your traps, and widen your lats and even your ribcage a bit in order to create the appearance that you’ve got wide shoulders but all that will do is make you look like a wide block of muscle whose shoulder’s bone structure in comparison to his waists size is still pretty close. [/quote]
I disagree about that. I think big muscles can look even more impressive on a smaller frame.
Exhibit A: a young Larry Scott (above). Not so developed yet, his shoulders look rather narrow…
Last one… doesn’t look so narrow anymore, does he?
I disagree about that. I think big muscles can look even more impressive on a smaller frame.
I agree, If you have wider shoulders, at lighter body weights it can create an illusion of your arms being disproportionately thin. Narrow people appear to have more developed arms.
[quote]max manus wrote:
FightingScott wrote:
I think that while it is very possible to look much wider than you are now through training, having truly wide shoulders is pretty much up to genetics. You can make your deltoids bigger than your face, make your neck disappear by training your traps, and widen your lats and even your ribcage a bit in order to create the appearance that you’ve got wide shoulders but all that will do is make you look like a wide block of muscle whose shoulder’s bone structure in comparison to his waists size is still pretty close.
I disagree about that. I think big muscles can look even more impressive on a smaller frame.
Exhibit A: a young Larry Scott (above). Not so developed yet, his shoulders look rather narrow…
[/quote]
I never said not having a natural V-taper and looking like a block was a bad thing. I’m just arguing that shoulder width is pretty much genetic and there’s not a lot you can do about getting wider shoulders without getting wider everywhere else.
I think Dorian Yates is a good example of how not having wide-shoulder bone structure can still be very impressive. In some pictures you can see his lats flared out to be almost as wide as his shoulders.
It’s defiantly possible to train and get a thicker upper body but if someone who looks like a skinny block starts training they’re going to end up looking like a thick, muscular rectangle.
On that note I think shoulder bone structure is about as arbitrary as wrist circumference. Sure both matter a little bit with regard to how fast you can put on muscle or how you’ll look when you put on muscle but since you really can’t do anything about either of them why worry
?
There was a time, when the carl louis body type was epitimized as the best limb lengths and attachments for sprinting…
Several sprinters Michael Johnson notably proved that the old theories are wrong.
Personally I’m believing more was self imposed anyway.
That you can reacch to genetics past your parents and grandparents.
That alot of pain is required, anad most people going to the gym, having fun, talking, etc will never ever get there.
That some of these body builders actually proved that you ccann get wider shoulders.
And most “skinny boy” with the real narrow waist and wide shoulders never become body builders or usually never do, its usually someone with a heavier structure to start with and lots of motivation.
That your shoulder width can change based on posture, possibly 1" to 1.5" in each direction.
That body builders putting on their image do impose best posture for a position or are supposed to.
So regardless you have to work with what you got, so why worry.
At what age would frame size and shoulder width be done growing?
It seems that the majority of average people between 16-20 look smaller than those that are 25-30, as far as frame size, but there are exceptions.