Let’s say you blast gear (take your pick) for a while or do a few cycles up to the point where you’re holding more muscle mass (while relatively lean, 10-15%BF) than a mere 200mg/wk “TRT” dose could obtain. If you titrate down to cruise while still eating the right foods and training properly, can you maintain an FFMI reminiscent of someone who is CLEARLY on gear?
We know the muscle memory effect is real, where a one and done cycle can produce gains to be ‘reclaimed’ after hormones reset. So wouldn’t this also be possible to do from a BnC > ‘Sports TRT’ standpoint (within reason, not IFBB or stage ready, but not terribly far off)?
My experience that might have some benefit is when I was closing in on 40 with the aim of competing in the Masters Nationals. I decided to compete in two drug tested contests. The rule was that I had to have not taken any AAS the last year. It was tested by lie detector.
So after I finished the last contest before turning 38 I quit AAS. As I recall I lost some muscle size, most noticeable in my delts and traps. I began to fairly quickly look like I was not on steroids. I retained most of my strength, dropping about 10% on my compound lifts.
I won my class in both of the tested shows, but failed to win the overall in either one.
I know your question included running some testosterone, so my experience isn’t quite what you are asking. 200mg/wk of testosterone might keep me looking full in the delts and traps, I don’t know. I never took more testosterone than that, but I had always also taken some anabolics.
When I competed in the drug tested shows I definitely looked like I lifted weights. So I ask, Does a look of definitely lifting weights not meet your desires?
I should say what a judge asked me when I did my first Masters Nationals 6 months after he saw me in the last tested show. He asked, What did you do to put that much muscle on?
From my experience you reach a steady state in the middle of what TRT solo would have got you versus full on cycling. Now with PCT, you lose almost all of it in my experience which is why I don’t recommend cycling for those folks.
Case in point…
When I was young and dumb I ran about three cycles (age 20ish). After PCT I pretty much reverted back to my prior self. Like 90% of the way. After a few months I wanted to cycle again, which I did, and the same result. I gave it up, due to this, all the way until i started TRT in my late mid/late 30s.
I probably ran 5-6 cycles in my mid to late 30s after starting TRT. When I started TRT I had already been working out 5 days a week for 20 years. I didn’t look hardcore at all. I was moderately strong but soft looking at about 170lbs. I started TRT and that alone pushed me to 185 lbs and someone that looked like they worked out. Enter blasting time. After a year of TRT I ran the cycles I mentioned with moderate doses. Off cycle I can hold about 195lbs fairly lean or 200+ a bit fluffy. While cycling I was able to hold 205-210lbs fairly lean.
As I stand today, done cycling, I hold low 200s if aiming for 15% BF (leanest I get because I won’t put the effort to be leaner nor desire to be). Thats clearly higher than TRT solo but not as high as while on the sauce. I’m done risking my health so TRT is good enough for me.
Are you talking about a true FFMI of 28-30, while being 10-15% BF? I guess “CLEARLY on gear” is kinda subjective. For me, a 28 FFMI would occur at 215 lbs, at 10% BF, at 5’10". I don’t think that is in the cards for me, as someone on a cruise that is in the TRT range, and has done a few moderate blasts.
At the same time a lean 28 FFMI for me, is jacked AF. Only the people who think the Rock is natty would think I was haha.
If 26-27 counts, that is a lot easier, and perhaps my genetics would allow it? I’d have to be really dialed in for diet and training to do it (at least if I was as lean as you mention). Someone with better genetics could do it easier.
Muscle memory I believe is a thing. Gains from a blast fall off slowly if you are using sports TRT dosages (unless you are holding mass from massive dose blasts). I think one could do a mini blast once or twice a year to achieve the goal of looking clearly sauced. That is after they’ve built their muscles to a big size with bigger blasts. I’ve seen this with the YouTuber Vigorous Steve. He can get pretty damn big on like 5-600 mg of gear for 12 weeks. But he is relying on muscle memory that came from running a lot more gear.
Well, I already had a physique that said “I lift, and I lift a lot” before AAS, but my goals have always been the same: Get bigger and leaner… never really an end goal in sight, but an FFMI of 28-30 as Ben has mentioned below is likely in the range of my goals. That kind of physique is beyond the scope of what one can achieve naturally, unless the individual has top .01% genetics.
This is kind of the long-term goal (I have more than one). Undeniably big, but with reasonable risk mitigation efforts. I’m okay with losing a couple years of natural lifespan, but I’m not okay with losing a decade or more. I know this isn’t a science, but a few blasts are likely not that damaging in the long run; BnC or Permablast are quite different in that regard.
Not sure what that would actually look like on me, but for arbitrary numbers’ sake sure. I don’t think I’m far off from that now anyways (subjective, BF% is SO hard to tell)
But regardless, I think sustaining a FFMI of 28-30 while ranging 10-15% BF would be ideal (obviously). Just curious if it’s possible to do with some BnC, and eventually tapering to just TRT (albeit high-dose TRT).
That is a good point on the BF%. I know two guys who are more like 10-12% BF, both around 220 lbs, and both basically 6’ (so a little taller than you or I). They are both guys that have used what would be called high doses on this board. They look freaky. One of them is close to a 1900 lb gym total. The other is too beat up to lift like that anymore, but is freaky looking.
I’ve come to the conclusion that I am not as lean as I thought I was based on guys like these guys. I am north of 15%, but sub 20%. I think to really be 10-12%, I’d have to be not much more than 190 lbs. Of course, when I was 215-220 lbs, I thought I’d be there at 200 haha.
My current FFMI is 28. I don’t see it ever getting higher. I’m 40 and done blasting. I do use scripted HGH and Test Cyp at 140mg/wk. Thats about all I will take. I may get bored and, if I can get it scripted, I would be willing to throw some var in there for a short period. But only scripted stuff for me for now on.
My growth levels are abysmal. Thats the only reason I received a script as the clinic I go to doesn’t normally script it. My IGF-1 levels are below range though half the time so I pleaded my case. 2iu will put you in the upper range of normalcy. So those that have normal levels won’t see much out of it. For me, I get slightly leaner as well as a fuller muscles. Its noticeable but not life changing.
The cost is definitely a factor but I’m very well off. Not a brag, just an ‘is what it is’.
I’ve got it drafted but service here is terrible… it’s like being inside a giant Faraday Cage.
Will probably be sent later on today when I get to leave work, it’s just about TRT providers and cost. Considering moving over to Matrix Hormones and was unsure if you had a better/cheaper option (or maybe one that offered more ‘services’ than Defy and Matrix and/or better pricing for them).
My belief is that you can build more on AAS, and you will hold more natural when you get off, then you would have had you never used AAS. You will not lose all the gains you got on AAS.
I do believe you will lose the look that the delts and traps get on AAS. That is exactly what I experienced when competing in the two steroid tested shows.
