Is It Me?

[quote]ZEB wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
I’m only 21, so I have little to compare it to, of course. But I think the whole obesity trip/ fad diets/ “health conciousness” thing in the 90s probably contributed to the influx of assholes in the gyms. Anytime more people get involved in something, you are garaunteed to get more people yapping about things they don’t know too much about.

It really goes beyond the Gym. I think the Gym simply reflects what is happening in our society.

For example, I have a child who just started High School this year. It’s amazing the stories that she comes home with. If even half of them are true we have some serious problems brewing.

Complete and total disrespect for teachers is the order of the day it seems. Not by everyone of course but by many. It used to be that there was always one or two wise guys in many classes. According to my daughter that number has grown considerably. And they go beyond harmless comments or pranks-

I wouldn’t last one week as a teacher because some of these punks who deserve something that they never got as kids- A GOOD BEATING!

(okay that was harsh)

[/quote]
Yea but you meant every word.

[quote]grey wrote:
Thanks for all the good input bros.
It was also good to hear from some of the younger bros who sound like they have it straight.
Ive been wondering about another thing as I was reading these posts and others,
How is the net affecting live communication skills in our youth.
Internet gives people a buffer. Live people skills is another thing.
I would suggest it can give us both.
The really shy and introverted
a chance to develop.
It stops the developement of interpersonal skills in children who would otherwise probably be excellent
in that department.
Which one is it?

When we were kids we had to make an effort to see our friends…whether they lived “around the block” or even a few doors down.
Most kids find their friends on a screen these days.
Pretty pathetic or is this what they call progress?[/quote]

I have a 10 year old brother, and he really doesn’t use the internet too much for communication…he plays games and crap. Kind of the same thing I used to do with Nintendo when I was a kid.

I think the influx of electronics is making the kids more prone to staying inside, of course. Plus parents are alot more fearful about where kids are nowadays…as if there are more kidnappers now…but all these things combine to keep kids inside and around the house more.

When I was 10, i spent most of my time in the woods riding on trails and shit. It just doesn’t happen so much anymore.

Although I think as long as there are public schools where the kids get together, things won’t change much. The social skills evolve one way or another. Or they won’t- but miserable introverts are nothing new to the world.

I think the kids who come on that are 17 and talk far bigger than they are are simply hiding behind the computer. They wouldn’t mouth off nearly as badly if they were face to face with a 250 pound bodybuilder. Very few people would. So that’s the world of the computer, what are you gonna do. You flame’em off, and the good ones will stay.

I have two daughters…a seventeen year old and a four year old.
I know for sure that when we were kids
I never behaved like my older one.
They seem to know everything.
I enjoyed reading a post here on this forum quoting Mark Twain. When he was 16 he thought his father was stupid. When he returned home at 21 he was amazed at how much smarter his father had become in 5 short years. It’s not exact but you get the message.
Then there are the stories of kids suing their parents and winning in a court of law because the parents had no right to hit the child as punishment.
I’ve never hit my children and do not believe that I ever could, but let’s face it…there are circumstances where a stiff repremand just doesn’t cut it. Especially with boys.
I know I;ll get it for being sexist or some such idiocy but that’s what i truly believe.
My old man rarely ever hit me (actually it was mom who my brother and I were scared of more) but boy when he did those few times I learned a lesson and didn’t repeat the same mistake twice.
Some liberal’s would say that that’s not love but fear etc. etc.
Damn right it was fear. Fear to get a whoopin but also a fear to dissapoint the man who I looked up to.
If he had been weakkneed and passive I probably would have climbed all over my parents heads like many kids these days do.
He has gone these many years now.
I thank him silently from time to time and hope that I can be as good a father to my children as he was to my brother and me.
Will children who are raised without discipline nor respect thank their parents for turning a blind eye when something should have been done…or will they blame them for where they ended up in life.

Maybe part of the problem is that many of us built our own home gyms and are not in the public gyms anymore. If we were there, we could teach (by example perhaps)these little assholes how to act properly in public - something their parent(s) failed to do. Some of these young kids, males especially, never had a strong male role model in their life to teach them otherwise. Sad state.

I escaped to my own home gym to avoid having to be around the problem, so I’m no better. Also, my parents had the same missgivings about my generation, so apparently we were not as perfect as I remember.

food for thought…

I do see this phenomenon of ‘lack of respect’ as a cultural issue, or at least a geographical one. Concerning the ‘receiving criticism’ issue. Ask the same question to yourselves? When a seemingly random person gives a criticism, whether is constructive or not, what is your first reaction? Be it in the gym, this forum, driving, work, or life in general?

Most alpha types ‘feel’ their right and the betas ‘know’ their right via research or whatnot. I’ve defended full squats against football players in HS to cardiologist (a “huge” 50yr old). How often are your ears open to what others have to say? When is the last time you’ve admitted that you were wrong on this forum alone? I have such respect for people who, when cornered and incorrect, admit this and commend the other person. Doing that online is FAR easier than in person. People hardly listen to one another, let alone ACT on what the other was saying. I will freely admit, that when I was at the school gym, I would only listen to one individual of the campus’s 28,000 kids, concerning my lifting form: the captain of the university’s powerlifting team and winner of Nations in Reno (and I only listened to his deadlift recommendation, he said “good”).

Much of our issue with other’s (young people in gyms in this case) lack of perceived respect is the fact that we think we are infallibly correct ourselves.
Since i’m apparently a young sprite just in my 20s, i’ve had to hear that “i have the worst upright row form ever” when i’m doing hang cleans from the resident group of hotshot aging baby boomers. I think the issue of the failure of respect start with that generation, the baby boomers. While respectful as youths, they were the first generation to band together and openly defy authority in ways never done before ('68 democratic convention, the entire Vietnam era movements, drugs) and then have become the richest generation our country has ever seen. I’m not sure of the numbers, but the wealth this country has seen increased by many multiples during the time baby boomers have spent at the top. Maybe the issue lies where i live, (a loaded county around chicago) but I see the problem as the “Benz/Beemer” syndrome. If you are successful enough to drive one, then you must have been vindicated in your life’s decisions, and therefore, you are just ‘right.’ You know the type, one probably cut you off driving while laughing on the bluetooth yesterday, or maybe you do not realize who i’m talking about, because you are one yourself. On top of that mentality, you have junior, whose inherited all of dad’s arrogance and superiority complex WITHOUT earning any of it. Its these little shits who epitomize the lack of respect. They learned from an early age that they “know it all” too. They got a bad grade because the teacher was wrong. Coach didn’t play them because coach was stupid, etc. Arrogance as a birthright. Possibly I’ve completely missed the idea of this article with my response, but I highly doubt anyone will disagree with the original concept that ‘kids are disrespectful’ now a days, since each and every generation says that to their kids. It makes me wonder where they learn it from. To rehash an often over quoted Gandhi, “Be the change you want to see in the world.”

[quote]kane101nod wrote:
I do see this phenomenon of ‘lack of respect’ as a cultural issue, or at least a geographical one. Concerning the ‘receiving criticism’ issue. Ask the same question to yourselves? When a seemingly random person gives a criticism, whether is constructive or not, what is your first reaction? Be it in the gym, this forum, driving, work, or life in general?

Most alpha types ‘feel’ their right and the betas ‘know’ their right via research or whatnot. I’ve defended full squats against football players in HS to cardiologist (a “huge” 50yr old). How often are your ears open to what others have to say? When is the last time you’ve admitted that you were wrong on this forum alone? I have such respect for people who, when cornered and incorrect, admit this and commend the other person. Doing that online is FAR easier than in person. People hardly listen to one another, let alone ACT on what the other was saying. I will freely admit, that when I was at the school gym, I would only listen to one individual of the campus’s 28,000 kids, concerning my lifting form: the captain of the university’s powerlifting team and winner of Nations in Reno (and I only listened to his deadlift recommendation, he said “good”).

Much of our issue with other’s (young people in gyms in this case) lack of perceived respect is the fact that we think we are infallibly correct ourselves.
Since i’m apparently a young sprite just in my 20s, i’ve had to hear that “i have the worst upright row form ever” when i’m doing hang cleans from the resident group of hotshot aging baby boomers. I think the issue of the failure of respect start with that generation, the baby boomers. While respectful as youths, they were the first generation to band together and openly defy authority in ways never done before ('68 democratic convention, the entire Vietnam era movements, drugs) and then have become the richest generation our country has ever seen. I’m not sure of the numbers, but the wealth this country has seen increased by many multiples during the time baby boomers have spent at the top. Maybe the issue lies where i live, (a loaded county around chicago) but I see the problem as the “Benz/Beemer” syndrome. If you are successful enough to drive one, then you must have been vindicated in your life’s decisions, and therefore, you are just ‘right.’ You know the type, one probably cut you off driving while laughing on the bluetooth yesterday, or maybe you do not realize who i’m talking about, because you are one yourself. On top of that mentality, you have junior, whose inherited all of dad’s arrogance and superiority complex WITHOUT earning any of it. Its these little shits who epitomize the lack of respect. They learned from an early age that they “know it all” too. They got a bad grade because the teacher was wrong. Coach didn’t play them because coach was stupid, etc. Arrogance as a birthright. Possibly I’ve completely missed the idea of this article with my response, but I highly doubt anyone will disagree with the original concept that ‘kids are disrespectful’ now a days, since each and every generation says that to their kids. It makes me wonder where they learn it from. To rehash an often over quoted Gandhi, “Be the change you want to see in the world.”
[/quote]

Well written post.
Some good points…

I was telling a buddy the other day that I thought a lot of today’s kids are such smart asses. He told me that kids are still pretty much the same, it’s just that I’m getting older so I’m more sensetive to their attitude. I never really thought about it that way I guess.

I definitely agree that there’s a lot of weightlifting/bodybuilding information available through the internet but don’t necessarily think the kids are picking up that much more information that’s actually sound and productive. Hell, I look around any gym and the vast majority are still doing the same old workouts and exercises with lousy form. To come clean, I don’t think I started to learn how to workout in the most effective manner up until about 2 years ago and I’m now 36.

But in all honesty, I don’t pay much attention to anyone in my gym. The punk rock is coming through pretty loud on the mp3 and I just go about my business.

I don’t think that “kids” these days are any more ignorant, but I do believe that the collective population is getting dumber as daily intellectual challenges are lessened with the advent of newer technologies.

One of the problems with todays “internet kids” is that they don’t know the difference between advertisements and facts.

But I do think that “kids” seem more ignorant as I get older…it’s a perception, not necessarily a reality.

No it isn’t just you. Lots of good posts here. I am 44 and have been lifting since 16, steadily since 19. I remember at 22 going into the old Spartan Gym in Merrifield, VA in early 1985. It was my first exposure to a hardcore gym. At 6’3" and 195, I thought I had some decent size, until I walked into this place. For weeks, I would get a knot in my stomach just going in there. There were guys 80, even 100 pounds more than me. I didn’t step out of line and just tried to figure out what people were doing. I met a few guys there, but mostly everybody was dead serious and there was no messing around. It was a fear and respect thing.

Flash forward 20 years. Actually, I have been seeing this trend for about 10 years now. For many under 25, it seems that there is a tremendous sense of confidence, false I suspect in many instances. I think the whole esteem based education thing has much to do with it. If you never experience failure, you do not believe it possible. Plus, adolescent males seem to have no fear of anybody bigger than they are. Kind of like a miniature Doberman that doesn’t know. And, nobody else knows anything. I stopped offering advice years ago. If somebody wants to f themselves up, go for it. If I get asked, I might offer, but that almost never happens.

We have had a high school co-op student in my office for the last several months. He is 17 and not a bad kid, but comes from a borderline noveau rich family with just a touch of the attitude. The BS he spouts sometimes just makes me smirk. I don’t know why he tells us this crap. Wednesday, he was bragging about how he and his buddies will cut in lift lines, movies lines, what have you, because he knows most older people won’t say anything. This kid is about 5’10", 160. He claims that everyone in his school is afraid of him, partly because he is a hockey player. He brags that he doesn’t respect his teachers. I was taught that you were polite and respectful to teachers even if they were idiots. Smarting off to a teacher had consequences. This doesn’t appear to be case in one of the wealthier high schools in the Denver metro area.

Anyway, in the gym, I see this attitude all the time. They know everything. But it isn’t just young guys. There is no camaraderie. My gym has changed dramatically from a medium sized place to a super gym in order to compete with 24 Hour and Better Bodies. With this size increase has come a legion of scowlers and posers of all ages. A big influx came when my gym inherited the membership from a gym up the street that closed after 20 years. Boy, what a bunch of 35+ year old whiny snobs.

On top of it all, nobody is friendly anymore. No longer is there the “Fellowhip of Iron.” Christ, you say hi to somebody, they look at you like you just stabbed them (this isn’t just confined to the gym, though).

Yesterday there was a trio of college guys benching and tough guy posturing like doing 135 was a big deal. I kept waiting for the big weights to come, but these chubby boys never got to it. Then are are the teeny tiny tatted up tough guys benching 115.

Oh well. Merry Christmas to all who are not offended by such!