I beleive your view of T-man is obscured by your age. It is up to each person to define it. For you it may be being big and intimidating, for another it may be health only.
I agree that when you are married WITH kids, the me attitude goes out the window. So what. To be a supporting husband and father is what’s up for me.
If I were younger it would be about the chicks and looking my best only. Us fathers have to work that part in in the background.
Prioritize.
Goals. Passion. Self-esteem. You must have them all. A man who loves his family will be as strong for them as he can be-when danger enters your house he doesn’t ask if you had a chance to do your squats today. Don’t let your family be an excuse to drop out of the race-let them be the reason to redouble your efforts. Marriage isn’t for all and neither are children. If you have children, raise them to make the world a better place. If you don’t have children, you can still be an example of what they should aspire to. Chop people out of their attics instead of looting casinos, etc.
It is not all BS.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
…
The moral of the story is, don’t get married.[/quote]
Ha! That what I tell people all the time.
However I wouldn’t trade my wife and kids for the world.
They may be the biggest pain in the ass sometimes, but my life would be incomplete without them.
You can’t have everything in life no matter how hard you try.
[quote]jeep7588 wrote:
T-Mag presents itself as and probably is the authority of what the ideal “man” is if there is such a thing. Basically the theme is grabbing life by the balls and sqeezing it till you get all you can. The question I have is that a reality for most people?
Seems to me that reality and the ideas here only match up for a short period of time in a guys life and longer for a select few that have the freedom and means to continue it but might dissapoint a guy that is married sacrificing everything thinking he is not getting the most out of life because he is not “out there” like most of the modern men’s mags (T-mag, Mens Health, Maxim ect) say he should be. And thats why the modern guy ends up fat out of shape and depressed. Not by his choice just the reality of life for joe average.
Jeep[/quote]
I have no idea where you came up with your notion in your first paragraph. Allow me to quote from TC’s Atomic Dog: T-Man Defined from 10/29/04:
http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=515593
[i]Contrary to what the uninitiated might think, being a T-Man doesn’t have that much to do with being physically powerful or imposing. Sure, T-Man is deeply interested in improving his body, but the alleys, halfway houses and prisons are filled with powerful men. Instead, being a T-Man is a sublime blend of intellect, integrity and the burning desire to improve himself physically and mentally.
He doesn’t buy into the notion that all men are created equal, but he believes those that fall short should stop whining about it and get off their ass and do something about it.
T-Man honors the aged and the disadvantaged, treating those that can do him no good equally to those that can. He’s not petty, vindictive and he struggles to keep his ego in check.
T-Man acknowledges that which he believes about women, and that is that they are indeed sex objects, but sex objects that are treated respectfully, almost reverentially. In other words, T-Man doesn’t lie about the fact that he’d like to bone everything female that moves but he doesn’t manipulate, bully, or worse yet, force women to acquiesce to his desires. If being courteous and masculine doesn’t get us what we want, we say “thanks” and go shopping elsewhere.
In no way does this way of thinking interfere with his belief that women are equal and that they be treated as such in pay, employment, status and any other social construct. Of course, just because a woman is our boss doesn’t mean we’re not picturing her naked.
Men are what we are and denying that our urges exist is disingenuous.
Along the same lines, we treat beautiful women well, and ugly ones even better because…well, because it’s the right thing to do.
Most of all, we revel in our manhood. It’s the best thing we’ve got going.[/i]
Now, I’ve only taken some intersting excerpts here but I think you get the idea…and it’s very far from your post.
As the the second paragraph pulled from your text, I’m ashamed of you… and for you. Are you really blaming a magazine, or society, or “life” for the “modern guy/average joe” being out of shape?
Clue: IT’S HIS FAULT HE LET HIMSELF GO.
He could very well have made different choices, but all choices have consequences and he reaped what it was he sowed.
Personal responsibility… A much hated concept in this era.
Side Note Damici, I agree whole heartedly. Not everyone was meant to be married or find that one true love deal. Not everyone was meant to procreate. Doing either because it’s “the thing to do” will lead to nothing but a negative outcome. Knowing yourself well enough to know your own limitations and desires is key to living a productive, fulfilling life - whatever form that takes.
On a related note, I DO believe that it is probably possible to lead a more adventurous/T-driven life while married with kids than many fathers do. I think many of them succumb to the idea that the daily work then come-home-to-the-wife-and-kids then do it all over again rut is all they can now have in life, and although that’s what MUCH of it might be, I think there are some fathers out there who do it right, or at least better than most fathers.
Those who are making a decent living – and I’m not talking about millionaires, but those who are making comfortable money – are able to plan time for adventure travel with their guy friends, or hiking (as my Dad did plenty of when I was a kid, even though he spent plenty of time with me) or whatever the case may be. Much of it boils down to setting some things on the table with your spouse initially and saying, “I’m going to need time to do my things on my own at regular intervals, and you should do the same.” I’ve seen some who seem to do this well, but most don’t.
Nevertheless, even those who do it “well,” relatively speaking, are still living a life that I personally would have no interest in living. But that’s just me.
[quote]~karma~ wrote:
jeep7588 wrote:
T-Mag presents itself as and probably is the authority of what the ideal “man” is if there is such a thing. Basically the theme is grabbing life by the balls and sqeezing it till you get all you can. The question I have is that a reality for most people?
Seems to me that reality and the ideas here only match up for a short period of time in a guys life and longer for a select few that have the freedom and means to continue it but might dissapoint a guy that is married sacrificing everything thinking he is not getting the most out of life because he is not “out there” like most of the modern men’s mags (T-mag, Mens Health, Maxim ect) say he should be. And thats why the modern guy ends up fat out of shape and depressed. Not by his choice just the reality of life for joe average.
Jeep
I have no idea where you came up with your notion in your first paragraph. Allow me to quote from TC’s Atomic Dog: T-Man Defined from 10/29/04:
http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=515593
[i]Contrary to what the uninitiated might think, being a T-Man doesn’t have that much to do with being physically powerful or imposing. Sure, T-Man is deeply interested in improving his body, but the alleys, halfway houses and prisons are filled with powerful men. Instead, being a T-Man is a sublime blend of intellect, integrity and the burning desire to improve himself physically and mentally.
He doesn’t buy into the notion that all men are created equal, but he believes those that fall short should stop whining about it and get off their ass and do something about it.
T-Man honors the aged and the disadvantaged, treating those that can do him no good equally to those that can. He’s not petty, vindictive and he struggles to keep his ego in check.
T-Man acknowledges that which he believes about women, and that is that they are indeed sex objects, but sex objects that are treated respectfully, almost reverentially. In other words, T-Man doesn’t lie about the fact that he’d like to bone everything female that moves but he doesn’t manipulate, bully, or worse yet, force women to acquiesce to his desires. If being courteous and masculine doesn’t get us what we want, we say “thanks” and go shopping elsewhere.
In no way does this way of thinking interfere with his belief that women are equal and that they be treated as such in pay, employment, status and any other social construct. Of course, just because a woman is our boss doesn’t mean we’re not picturing her naked.
Men are what we are and denying that our urges exist is disingenuous.
Along the same lines, we treat beautiful women well, and ugly ones even better because…well, because it’s the right thing to do.
Most of all, we revel in our manhood. It’s the best thing we’ve got going.[/i]
Now, I’ve only taken some intersting excerpts here but I think you get the idea…and it’s very far from your post.
As the the second paragraph pulled from your text, I’m ashamed of you… and for you. Are you really blaming a magazine, or society, or “life” for the “modern guy/average joe” being out of shape?
Clue: IT’S HIS FAULT HE LET HIMSELF GO.
He could very well have made different choices, but all choices have consequences and he reaped what it was he sowed.
Personal responsibility… A much hated concept in this era.
Side Note Damici, I agree whole heartedly. Not everyone was meant to be married or find that one true love deal. Not everyone was meant to procreate. Doing either because it’s “the thing to do” will lead to nothing but a negative outcome. Knowing yourself well enough to know your own limitations and desires is key to living a productive, fulfilling life - whatever form that takes. [/quote]
So the stuff about panty sniffing is normal stuff? I am more talking about the overall vibe. How many profiles have there been here of a working mother or father on a normal job not a coach or trainer that lays out how he or she has been successful at raising a family and managing that with being in shape and staying active?
Personally I believe you can have a much better split than what most do. I do not have a family and my ex-wife to whom I sacrificed a great many things for decided that blowing guys was equivalent to a hand shake and ran my credit into the ground so I kicked her to the curb. I do stay in shape I am not that young at 30 and I am a hard working professional. Not saying anything is an excuse for being out of shape just saying why it happens.
Jeep
Side Note Damici, I agree whole heartedly. Not everyone was meant to be married or find that one true love deal. Not everyone was meant to procreate. Doing either because it’s “the thing to do” will lead to nothing but a negative outcome. Knowing yourself well enough to know your own limitations and desires is key to living a productive, fulfilling life - whatever form that takes. [/quote]
Thanks Karma. And by the way, I’m not saying that I don’t agree with the one true love idea – I do completely, actually. Call me a romantic. 
When I fall head over heels for someone, I REALLY fall head over heels, so I definately want all of that. I just don’t want kids. And if I’m not going to have kids, I don’t really see the point in getting married. What does it add besides conformity to society’s preconceived ideal of what two people “need” to do together, plus a hugely expensive outlay for a wedding, rings, etc.?
Now the TOUGH part will be for me to find a girl who is of precisely like mind. THAT probably won’t be easy. If you happen to know of anyone . . . 
I am not ragging on T-Mag either. I said in my original post that it is not like T-Mag tells people to leave there wife and kids for there own individual pursuits.
And I do not have a family at this time if I did I would do what needed to be done.
Also I said I greatly admired my brother for what he has done again please read the original post I was not ragging on what he has done or the prospect of raising a family.
And this is not really directed specifically at t-mag go read maxim, men’s health not sure but was browsing through one that advocated selling all your shit and touring the world, that is the kind of stuff I am talking about. Wanted to see what peoples opinions on that stuff was not saying my life will be incomplete unless I run with the bulls. I was just giving examples.
And most of all I do not believe there are many excuses for letting yourself go but go tell that to a single mother of four that works at Wal-Mart because her dead beat husband left her. Just saying life happens and sometimes in our high and mighty “everyone out of shape is a fat lazy slob” narrow minded view, while right a majority of the time is not always so.
Also remember these are observations not critiques that is a big difference. Really wanted to see if there is someone out there who does both and manages a happy healthy life.
Jeep
Yes, in fact it IS all BS. There are very few people out there (men or women) who live the life that is portrayed in “Outdoor” magazine. Call me crazy, but I have a feeling that the folks in the Coors commercials are actors.
I’m 38, been married 10 years (this October) and have two little ones.
Prior to getting married, I partied my ass off, drank, and did more than my share of a very wide variety of drugs.
My parents divorced when I was 7. I was flat out resigned to the fact that there would be ABSOLUTELY no fucking way in hell that I would get married. After I got married, I said to myself, there is no fucking way in hell that I’m having kids.
You know what? My wife and kids have molded me into what I think is a pretty damned good guy (not to sound conceited)…alot better than I used to be.
It’s funny, I used to train for looks, then I used to train for the emotional release…now I train for all of the above PLUS, I want my son and daughter to have an image of me as not only a loving, providing father but of a physically strong man as well. I want them to be proud to call me “Dad.” I’ll be damned if I’m going to be at one of my son’s soccer, little league or midget football games looking like most of the “veal” dads that I see everyday.
The way I look at it, my main mission in life is to take care of my wife and kids and to get utterly massive!!!..well, maybe not THAT massive. What it boils down to is that I’d rather go home at night to be with my wife and kids than hang out at a bar hoping to pick up some skank. Been there, done that.
Anyone can “have it all”…It’s all about priorities. I’m married and have two great kids. I still get to the gym 6 days a week,(during lunch hour usually) still restore and work on cars,(when kids go to sleep usually) and still play with the kids everynight after work. The wife also has a chance to do her things because we work on it that way. It’s all about what’s important to you.
So if a man has a wife, has kids, has a job, and can still lift more and/or look better than most single guys then he would truely have it all…
[quote]Scottish 190 wrote:
So if a man has a wife, has kids, has a job, and can still lift more and/or look better than most single guys then he would truely have it all…
[/quote]
IF he’s enjoying life.
[quote]jeep7588 wrote:
So the stuff about panty sniffing is normal stuff? I am more talking about the overall vibe. How many profiles have there been here of a working mother or father on a normal job not a coach or trainer that lays out how he or she has been successful at raising a family and managing that with being in shape and staying active?
Personally I believe you can have a much better split than what most do. I do not have a family and my ex-wife to whom I sacrificed a great many things for decided that blowing guys was equivalent to a hand shake and ran my credit into the ground so I kicked her to the curb. I do stay in shape I am not that young at 30 and I am a hard working professional. Not saying anything is an excuse for being out of shape just saying why it happens.
Jeep [/quote]
Well I don’t know about anyone else, but I think panty sniffing is totally normal. I prefer to sniff them when they still have the warmth of the wearer in them.
As for overall vibe - I suppose part of the vibe (which each of us feels differently since we all see through our own ‘filters’) may be a machismo/fantasy land thing, but I think the main message is pretty damn clear. LIVE LIFE! Don’t let your penis (ovaries I guess would be the ‘female’ equivalent) be kept in a mayonnaise jar under the sink. Each person should define for themselves what constitutes a fulfilling life - AND THEN MAKE EVERY EFFORT TO LIVE IT.
You want profiles of “normal” people that balance life? Hell, look at my story. I’m a single mom, high school drop out, had a shitty marriage/divorce, have worked multiple jobs to make ends meet, have had varying degrees of success in romantic relationships, have been in business for myself and yeah, that’s my ass in my avatar after having gained and lost about 80lbs.
Guess what? I still go to Vegas and dance till 6am. I’ve traveled all over the North American continent having incredible adventures, staying in absolute first class hotels and resorts, flying in a G4 (got to pilot it once, too!). I’m a PTA member and active participant in my son’s school activites. I’ve climbed mountains (granted, not a fourteener yet) and raced Indy cars and flown several small planes. I’ve partied at Lake Havasu when Copper Canyon was one solid mass of boats tied off and everybody was buttassnekkid. I’m the Team Mom for my son’s football team. I’ve spent a week at one of the most exclusive private retreats in the Nappa Valley doing meditation guided by a Buddhist monk, getting every conceivable pampering spa treatment and learning the most fascinating things about the wines of the region.
Life ain’t dull!
But am I a phenom? No. I’m just someone that refused to give up and ‘settle’ for what ‘normal’ really is. I want more and goddammit, I’m getting more!
There’s a ton of ‘normal’ folks here that are getting more, too.
And puhleeze, 30 is old? For you maybe but I refuse to let that be my reality. I’ll be 32 in December and damn proud of it.
[quote]~karma~ wrote:
jeep7588 wrote:
So the stuff about panty sniffing is normal stuff? I am more talking about the overall vibe. How many profiles have there been here of a working mother or father on a normal job not a coach or trainer that lays out how he or she has been successful at raising a family and managing that with being in shape and staying active?
Personally I believe you can have a much better split than what most do. I do not have a family and my ex-wife to whom I sacrificed a great many things for decided that blowing guys was equivalent to a hand shake and ran my credit into the ground so I kicked her to the curb. I do stay in shape I am not that young at 30 and I am a hard working professional. Not saying anything is an excuse for being out of shape just saying why it happens.
Jeep
Well I don’t know about anyone else, but I think panty sniffing is totally normal. I prefer to sniff them when they still have the warmth of the wearer in them.
As for overall vibe - I suppose part of the vibe (which each of us feels differently since we all see through our own ‘filters’) may be a machismo/fantasy land thing, but I think the main message is pretty damn clear. LIVE LIFE! Don’t let your penis (ovaries I guess would be the ‘female’ equivalent) be kept in a mayonnaise jar under the sink. Each person should define for themselves what constitutes a fulfilling life - AND THEN MAKE EVERY EFFORT TO LIVE IT.
You want profiles of “normal” people that balance life? Hell, look at my story. I’m a single mom, high school drop out, had a shitty marriage/divorce, have worked multiple jobs to make ends meet, have had varying degrees of success in romantic relationships, have been in business for myself and yeah, that’s my ass in my avatar after having gained and lost about 80lbs.
Guess what? I still go to Vegas and dance till 6am. I’ve traveled all over the North American continent having incredible adventures, staying in absolute first class hotels and resorts, flying in a G4 (got to pilot it once, too!). I’m a PTA member and active participant in my son’s school activites. I’ve climbed mountains (granted, not a fourteener yet) and raced Indy cars and flown several small planes. I’ve partied at Lake Havasu when Copper Canyon was one solid mass of boats tied off and everybody was buttassnekkid. I’m the Team Mom for my son’s football team. I’ve spent a week at one of the most exclusive private retreats in the Nappa Valley doing meditation guided by a Buddhist monk, getting every conceivable pampering spa treatment and learning the most fascinating things about the wines of the region.
Life ain’t dull!
But am I a phenom? No. I’m just someone that refused to give up and ‘settle’ for what ‘normal’ really is. I want more and goddammit, I’m getting more!
There’s a ton of ‘normal’ folks here that are getting more, too.
And puhleeze, 30 is old? For you maybe but I refuse to let that be my reality. I’ll be 32 in December and damn proud of it.
[/quote]
Guess the panty sniffing wasn’t the best example but really wasn’t trying to rag on t-mag at all.
Sometimes 30 seems old and sometimes it doesn’t guess its all context. I like others have been through a lot of BS the past 2 years and guess it makes you feel older than what you are. Nice ass by the way.
Glad to see you are out there living life as a single mom now that is a great story.
Like I said just wanted some opinions on life and family from people that have one like you. And being a single mom is tough I could only imagine. I am working on getting back into the dating scene and back to the point where I would start to concieve of having a wife and kids but guess it will take some time. Thanks
Jeep: In your original post you talked of how reality gets in the way of your perception of what has been portrayed as being a T-man. You got some really strong feedback that, to me, boiled down to two things.
reality is whatever you decide to create for yoursef.
A T-man is whatever you decide to define for yourself wheather that be within the confines of a family setting or the swinging batchelor lifstyle.
If you don’t want to get stuck with a 9-5 job, don’t choose one. If you don’t want a wife that keeps you tied to the house all the time, choose one who’s on board with you persuing your adventures and might even accompany you on a few. Or choose to reamain single. If you choose to have kids, take 'em on adventures when they’re old enough.
I did’nt want a 9-5 job because I wanted adventure so I chose one with compressed hours so I can get my time away. I also chose a job with adventure and unpredictability built in. I chose to create a lifestyle that allows me to persue advnentures and I make every effort to live into it. Sometimes life gets in the way… everyday can’t be scene out of mission impossible. For me it’s about balancing responsibility with personal passions. As Karma illustrates, there’s room for both, just create it.