[quote]orion wrote:
The 2/3 of the population that is under 30, listening to your music, watching your films and trying to study in the US if they possibly can may not hate you yet, but it is time that a new generation learns why they call you Big Satan.
[/quote]
Haha, they may not hate yet, bu they will, they will.
[quote]Sikkario wrote:
Yes the ruling elite have control of their own soil, not the people. They do not enjoy the freedoms you or I do, yet, you support their tyranny.
What freedoms do you enjoy that they do not?[/quote]
Are you serious? If you are you need to study up the situation. Start with the bill of rights and go from there.
[quote]Sikkario wrote:
You are a college kid, right?
I don’t understand what that means.
Am I in college? Is that were you asking? What is a college kid? How do you qualify yourself as a college kid? I feel there is a deeper meaning to your question.[/quote]
You are young and idealistic. Keeper of the keys to the gate of truth, so to speak.
[quote]Sikkario wrote:
I respect your opinion.
I’d like to know more about your position however, so it seems they’ve earned a level of condemnation in your opinion. From where does this condemnation derive, you indicate they’ve earned this condemnation, so I’d like to not what they have done to earn it.[/quote]
Iran - illiberal autocracy that sponsors terrorism, is an infant totalitarian state, and wants nuclear weapons so it can change its weight class in hopes of muscling Israel.
I never said they had more or less than you do. I’m asking you, what are these freedoms you hold so dearly that make your existence so much better than theirs.
The citizens of Iran are guaranteed rights and freedoms as well, their people are guaranteed personal freedoms and liberties just like ours are. Whether or not their government always abides by this will probably come under scrutiny now that I have made this assertion. We know that our gov’t has also routinely violated the rights of its people throughout its history as well.
You’ve made the assertion that the ruling elite of Iran enjoy freedoms and the citizen lacks these freedoms.
That here in the United States we do not have a ruling elite, and our citizens enjoy greater freedom than theirs.
Thus we exist on a moral high ground compared to theirs.
I’m asking you to back up your claim or forfeit it.
[quote]Sikkario wrote:
I never called you a Nazi. I don’t really know what you argument is.
That was Israel’s land long before they came and got it back.
The hatred for the Jew is as old as time. There is no new reason needed for the rest of the ME to hate the Jewish State.
I disagree, that being somewhere 2,000 years ago, and even then not being the dominate inhabitant of the region, some how obliges someone to a divine right to OWN this land and expell the current inhabitants from it.
Also if we’re taking about some sort of ethnic inhabitant concept, most of the Jews in Europe, were descended from converts from the Kingdom Of Khazaria (in the Russian Steppe) rather than, some sort of Neo-Roman Judean refuges.
Also, Israel was never really a region, Judaea was a Roman province with a government nominall controlled by ancient Jews, but Israel was the tribes of Israel, and they were spread all over the place and kept on spreading.
The nation was named Israel because it was thought to be a recollection of all these tribes.
I don’t personally hate Jews.
I challenge your position that Jews are being scapegoated here.
For if Judaism is the scapegoat in the Middle East and they are all hellbent on doing Holocaust 2 on the Israelis, why are their significant and prosperous Jew communites in the great antagonist of Iran even to go as far as being permanently reserved a seat in government?[/quote]
I didn’t say there weren’t new reasons. Of course there is going to justification for the current relationship. But the Jewish State - Israel - has been villlified for well over 2000 years.
I might have been a bit misleading in my prior statement when I said simply “the Jew”. I meant that to be interpreted as the Jewish state. I don’t think you can draw any parallels between the treatment of a Jew living in another country, and The Jewish State of Israel.
[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
Sikkario wrote:
I respect your opinion.
I’d like to know more about your position however, so it seems they’ve earned a level of condemnation in your opinion. From where does this condemnation derive, you indicate they’ve earned this condemnation, so I’d like to not what they have done to earn it.
Iran - illiberal autocracy that sponsors terrorism, is an infant totalitarian state, and wants nuclear weapons so it can change its weight class in hopes of muscling Israel.
[/quote]
Having nuclear weapons won’t mean Israel is getting nuked, mutually assured destruction and all that. It will mean a stop to the threat of Israel nuking other Middle Eastern nations, and how is that a bad thing exactly?
I think Israel was created because many Jews felt they could not be safe or prosperous in any other country but their own ethnically and religious homogenous state. Unfortunately, it appears the opposite is true. The Jew in the USA, and the Jew in Iran, is safer than the Jew in Israel.
For the Jew in Israel is held responsibly social by all the second class citizens within that region who he has displaced.
[quote]will to power wrote:
thunderbolt23 wrote:
Sikkario wrote:
I respect your opinion.
I’d like to know more about your position however, so it seems they’ve earned a level of condemnation in your opinion. From where does this condemnation derive, you indicate they’ve earned this condemnation, so I’d like to not what they have done to earn it.
Iran - illiberal autocracy that sponsors terrorism, is an infant totalitarian state, and wants nuclear weapons so it can change its weight class in hopes of muscling Israel.
Having nuclear weapons won’t mean Israel is getting nuked, mutually assured destruction and all that. It will mean a stop to the threat of Israel nuking other Middle Eastern nations, and how is that a bad thing exactly?[/quote]
When has Israel ever used a nuke? There is a reason why the answer is never: The US. We have Israel on a leash.
Iran goes nukey, and the US had either get a much stronger leash, or Iran had better have one stable assed government in place that can be trusted, and is not full of anti-zionist rhetoric.
The ME doesn’t have what it takes to handle an unleashed Israel.
Now tell me how Iran going nuclear is going to do anything to make the ME more stable.
[quote]Sikkario wrote:
I might have been a bit misleading in my prior statement when I said simply “the Jew”. I meant that to be interpreted as the Jewish state. I don’t think you can draw any parallels between the treatment of a Jew living in another country, and The Jewish State of Israel.
I think Israel was created because many Jews felt they could not be safe or prosperous in any other country but their own ethnically and religious homogenous state. Unfortunately, it appears the opposite is true. The Jew in the USA, and the Jew in Iran, is safer than the Jew in Israel.
For the Jew in Israel is held responsibly social by all the second class citizens within that region who he has displaced.[/quote]
This post makes no sense to me. The Jews had been very prosperous everywhere before WWII - especially in the US.
I think the ME is already as unstable as could possibly be, considering Pakistan is at the point of total collapse and has a fully equipped nuclear arsenal.
Despite this, the USA, still is in bed with Pakistan.
[quote]Sikkario wrote:
I think the ME is already as unstable as could possibly be, considering Pakistan is at the point of total collapse and has a fully equipped nuclear arsenal.
Despite this, the USA, still is in bed with Pakistan.[/quote]
I don’t think you have to worry so much about Pakistan going nuts wrt the ME - their enemy is India. Their attention will be turned to them - not Israel, or Iran.
[quote]rainjack wrote:
will to power wrote:
Having nuclear weapons won’t mean Israel is getting nuked, mutually assured destruction and all that. It will mean a stop to the threat of Israel nuking other Middle Eastern nations, and how is that a bad thing exactly?
When has Israel ever used a nuke? There is a reason why the answer is never: The US. We have Israel on a leash.
Iran goes nukey, and the US had either get a much stronger leash, or Iran had better have one stable assed government in place that can be trusted, and is not full of anti-zionist rhetoric.
The ME doesn’t have what it takes to handle an unleashed Israel.
Now tell me how Iran going nuclear is going to do anything to make the ME more stable.
[/quote]
So, you consider that the US will have Israel leashed forever? And what would you do if they went ahead and used a nuclear weapon? I suppose you could stop funding their military, but I doubt even that would happen.
As I said, the reason I think it will be more stable is because Israel will keep Iran on a leash as far as nukes, and vice versa, just like with the US/Russia, India/Pakistan. I think the fundamental divide between our opinions here is you think Iran is insane and willing to commit suicidal acts and I don’t.
[quote]rainjack wrote:
Sikkario wrote:
I think the ME is already as unstable as could possibly be, considering Pakistan is at the point of total collapse and has a fully equipped nuclear arsenal.
Despite this, the USA, still is in bed with Pakistan.
I don’t think you have to worry so much about Pakistan going nuts wrt the ME - their enemy is India. Their attention will be turned to them - not Israel, or Iran. [/quote]
What about the concern of certain groups acquiring nuclear weapons? I don’t expect a sensible state to use them when faced with a nuclear enemy but if crazy enough individuals did the situations could get much worse.
[quote]will to power wrote:
Having nuclear weapons won’t mean Israel is getting nuked, mutually assured destruction and all that. [/quote]
Barbarian Muslim nations have tried - unsuccessfully - to push Israel into the sea. Israel wiped their respective clocks, but Israel’s military superiority didn’t stop them from trying.
A manufactured fear - Israel isn’t going to nuke a Middle Eastern country unless attacked first, which we know is a distinct possibility.
Middle Eastern nations don’t sit in a state of fear that mean old Israel has designs on whooping them - and to suggest so is intellectually dishonest.
[quote]will to power wrote:
As I said, the reason I think it will be more stable is because Israel will keep Iran on a leash as far as nukes, and vice versa, just like with the US/Russia, India/Pakistan. I think the fundamental divide between our opinions here is you think Iran is insane and willing to commit suicidal acts and I don’t.[/quote]
I agree that we see Iran differently. I don’t think you could call the knuckle head in power right now a stable person. I don’t think the country is stable. You don’t give a 2 year old kid a razor blade. I think the same common sense should apply to rogue states.
[quote]will to power wrote:
rainjack wrote:
Sikkario wrote:
I think the ME is already as unstable as could possibly be, considering Pakistan is at the point of total collapse and has a fully equipped nuclear arsenal.
Despite this, the USA, still is in bed with Pakistan.
I don’t think you have to worry so much about Pakistan going nuts wrt the ME - their enemy is India. Their attention will be turned to them - not Israel, or Iran.
What about the concern of certain groups acquiring nuclear weapons? I don’t expect a sensible state to use them when faced with a nuclear enemy but if crazy enough individuals did the situations could get much worse.[/quote]
I think that if Pakistan even farts in the shape of a mushroom cloud, India will turn the entire country into a glass parking lot.
[quote]will to power wrote:
What about the concern of certain groups acquiring nuclear weapons? I don’t expect a sensible state to use them when faced with a nuclear enemy but if crazy enough individuals did the situations could get much worse.[/quote]
You’ve answered your own question - Iran is not a “sensible state”, the powers-that-be in Iran are the “crazy individuals” the civilized world wants to keep nuclear weapons away from.
[quote]dk44 wrote:
[/quote]
Were you trying to educate this new tiresome anti-semite, Sikko, who wrote:
[quote]
The schemings of International Jewry (this is before, the Holocaust, and one of the reasons for the Holocaust) were intending to create some sort of world wide Jewish nation at some location. [/quote]?
This is the typical rant of the racist. Let’s see, it starts a thread on Iran, then hijacks it to vent anti-Israel jew-baiting, lies, and propaganda and crap culled from websites spewing hate. But no, he is not a Nazi, he is a “Bolivian-American” Libertarian.
This skull is impenetrable, dk44. And were you to penetrate this sclerotic cranium, you would find a stale hell of racism, anti-semitism and utter mindlessness bound up only by the migration of spirochetes.
…
I do not know where the captioned website originates. For a solid revisionist history, try Segev, One Palestine, Complete.
And no, I am not going to “debate” Sikko, or the Scumbag Prolix Lixy, unless they want to post a book report.
This is actually what my paper is about.
My new question, is, why does everyone think Iran is insane, unstable, aggressive and otherwise evil?
My piece I’m writing is called, In Defense of Iran.
In recent history, the only country that has tried to control, conquer, damage or otherwise maim any other country in relation to Persia, has been the United States.
Iran has not EVER acted aggressively towards the United States, in fact the past 50 years has been a continual escalation, alienation, damaging and maiming of Iran, by the United States.
The only incident that stands out, is the Iranian hostage crisis, which was a direct retaliation performed by militants against American attempts to control Iran’s government.
I’m not in the service of Iran or anyway affiliated with the country, but I find it absolutely mad, people in the United States somehow hold this opinion that they are some how on a moral strong point against Iran, when absolutely nothing could be further from the truth.
I firmly believe Iran is not trying to harm the USA, does not want anything to do with WMD, and has continually provoked into a state of national defense at the advances and assertions made by our government.
If Iran were seeking Nuclear Weaponry which is sincerely doubt, it would only be as a deterrent against America’s continual threatening of her nation’s right to exist.