Is Iran The Enemy?

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
61

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
will to power wrote:

Having nuclear weapons won’t mean Israel is getting nuked, mutually assured destruction and all that.

Barbarian Muslim nations have tried - unsuccessfully - to push Israel into the sea. Israel wiped their respective clocks, but Israel’s military superiority didn’t stop them from trying.
[/quote]

There’s a huge difference between conventional and nuclear warfare, in particular to the risks for the civilian population.

Actually, a nuclear response to conventional warfare is exactly what I’m referring to. Whether or not you agree if an invasion occurs, that’s no justification for nuking civilian cities.

[quote]
Middle Eastern nations don’t sit in a state of fear that mean old Israel has designs on whooping them - and to suggest so is intellectually dishonest.[/quote]

Israel has made multiple attempts to occupy parts of Lebanon, and their methods show massive disdain towards the civilian population.

62

Ahlmenijad, hasn’t killed anyone. During his regime, he has openly tried to court, the American people, and the Government into dialogue with Iran, despite our countries continual and unrequited antagonization of him.

To the contrary in the past 8 years our leader, has been responsible for more loss of life than any other leader in the world and did so unchallenged after blatantly violating international law.

Our leader has openly threatened Iran, in the same format it threatened Iraq, with zero justifable reasoning, authority or reason.

I think the burden of madness, instability and hostility is on our shoulders not theirs.

If they were seeking nuclear weapons, it is only because we pinned them on an naxis of evil list and have caused loss of life in breaking the toll of a million in two of their neighboring countries.

63

[quote]rainjack wrote:
will to power wrote:
rainjack wrote:
Sikkario wrote:
I think the ME is already as unstable as could possibly be, considering Pakistan is at the point of total collapse and has a fully equipped nuclear arsenal.

Despite this, the USA, still is in bed with Pakistan.

I don’t think you have to worry so much about Pakistan going nuts wrt the ME - their enemy is India. Their attention will be turned to them - not Israel, or Iran.

What about the concern of certain groups acquiring nuclear weapons? I don’t expect a sensible state to use them when faced with a nuclear enemy but if crazy enough individuals did the situations could get much worse.

I think that if Pakistan even farts in the shape of a mushroom cloud, India will turn the entire country into a glass parking lot. [/quote]

I was actually concerned about, say, Bin Laden getting his hands on nukes since he operates in Pakistan and using or trying to use them on Israel.

64

[quote]Sikkario wrote:

In recent history, the only country that has tried to control, conquer, damage or otherwise maim any other country in relation to Persia, has been the United States.
[/quote]

This is factually dishonest. Both times the US was part of a coalition. Not unilateral. We have never tried to conquer, or damage any country.

We have our interests, and the interests of the rest of the civilized world to think about.

The extent of our aggression has been to control, and eliminate two people: UBL, and Sadaam.

Is you memory so short that you cannot remember Iraq’s attempt to conquer Kuwait?

Please. I am not a fellow poly sci student.

65

What is racist about what I’m saying? I don’t understand.

I also don’t understand how indicating that Jews were migrating to Israel before WW2 because that is common knowledge for anyone who knows anything about the region is an indication of some sort of personal prejudice. Jews were emigrating there with the hopes of restoring a sovereign nation since at least the 1880s.

66

[quote]will to power wrote:
rainjack wrote:
will to power wrote:
rainjack wrote:
Sikkario wrote:
I think the ME is already as unstable as could possibly be, considering Pakistan is at the point of total collapse and has a fully equipped nuclear arsenal.

Despite this, the USA, still is in bed with Pakistan.

I don’t think you have to worry so much about Pakistan going nuts wrt the ME - their enemy is India. Their attention will be turned to them - not Israel, or Iran.

What about the concern of certain groups acquiring nuclear weapons? I don’t expect a sensible state to use them when faced with a nuclear enemy but if crazy enough individuals did the situations could get much worse.

I think that if Pakistan even farts in the shape of a mushroom cloud, India will turn the entire country into a glass parking lot.

I was actually concerned about, say, Bin Laden getting his hands on nukes since he operates in Pakistan and using or trying to use them on Israel.[/quote]

I don’t think that is a real possibility. At least not in my mind. He has sanctuary in the South, but that is about it. That is a long way from him stealing some nukes.

67

[quote]Sikkario wrote:
This is actually what my paper is about.

My new question, is, why does everyone think Iran is insane, unstable, aggressive and otherwise evil?

My piece I’m writing is called, In Defense of Iran.

In recent history, the only country that has tried to control, conquer, damage or otherwise maim any other country in relation to Persia, has been the United States.

Iran has not EVER acted aggressively towards the United States, in fact the past 50 years has been a continual escalation, alienation, damaging and maiming of Iran, by the United States.

The only incident that stands out, is the Iranian hostage crisis, which was a direct retaliation performed by militants against American attempts to control Iran’s government.

I’m not in the service of Iran or anyway affiliated with the country, but I find it absolutely mad, people in the United States somehow hold this opinion that they are some how on a moral strong point against Iran, when absolutely nothing could be further from the truth.

I firmly believe Iran is not trying to harm the USA, does not want anything to do with WMD, and has continually provoked into a state of national defense at the advances and assertions made by our government.

If Iran were seeking Nuclear Weaponry which is sincerely doubt, it would only be as a deterrent against America’s continual threatening of her nation’s right to exist.

[/quote]

Wow, you write like, partly fluently and partly not.

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Is your memory not so short, that the invasion of Kuwait by Iraq illegal under International Law for the same reason that the USA’s current invasion of Iraq is illegal under international law.

Osama Bin Laden, was armed and equipped by the United States when he was involved in the war against the Soviets. Saddamn Hussein was armed and equipped by the United States in his war against Iran.

Which resulted in 2 million Iranian lives lost, many of which perished from WMD, used by the Iraqis and provided by the United States to destabilize, terrorize and topple the newly formed Iranian gov’t.

Despite the fact that Iran being the country who has suffered more gravely than any other other nation on the face of the planet by WMDs for some reason. Public opinion in the United States presented in the popular media wants to link them to the development obtainment and use of WMD.

This is absurd considering the first Ayatollah proclaimed Iran, as a nation who had suffered so greatly from these weapons would never seek them.

To further this, despite the fact Russia has been meddling in Iranian internal affairs and was the antagonist in the invasion of Afghanistan, while currently being a point of hatred towards radical Islamists due to their prolonged conflict in Chechnya. Iran has no enmity towards them and does not wish to harm this nation or harbor any ill will towards them.

Instead they have become business partners, a future the USA, and Iran can share. Only if we can stop acting like Iraq, and settle down and act peacably with the rest of the world.

69

[quote]will to power wrote:
Having nuclear weapons won’t mean Israel is getting nuked, mutually assured destruction and all that. It will mean a stop to the threat of Israel nuking other Middle Eastern nations, and how is that a bad thing exactly?[/quote]

That is the key point. If Iran gets nukes (which they claim they are not after) it would mean that they could continue with their successful defiance unchallenged. That would be a blow in the balance of power between the countries, and might force Americans to sit down and talk with the Iranians (we can’t have that, can we?).

If you study some of the declassified White House and CIA documents, you can find a recurring theme in the dangers of inspiration. That is precisely the reason the US is extremely antagonistic to Venezuela and might even have been behind the 2002 coup against Chavez. The guy and his movement are inspiring people all over Latin America and the world to break free of the neo-colonial chains, reclaim their own land and stand up to the bullies.

70

[quote]rainjack wrote:
I don’t think you have to worry so much about Pakistan going nuts wrt the ME - their enemy is India. [/quote]

As opposed to Iran which will destroy the US with sheer willpower?

Pakistan is Al-Qaeda (along with Saudi Arabia). And last I checked, NY was attacked by Al-Qaeda, not the Revolutionary Guards.

71

[quote]will to power wrote:
So, you consider that the US will have Israel leashed forever? And what would you do if they went ahead and used a nuclear weapon? I suppose you could stop funding their military, but I doubt even that would happen. [/quote]

Good point. Israel is allied with the USA because the latter gives it free stuff. The US…well, because of AIPAC.

Try starting a lobby in Tel-Aviv to further a foreign nation’s interests. And if you get past that, try to get it to become the the 2nd strongest lobby in the country.

72

[quote]lixy wrote:
rainjack wrote:
I don’t think you have to worry so much about Pakistan going nuts wrt the ME - their enemy is India.

As opposed to Iran which will destroy the US with sheer willpower?

Pakistan is Al-Qaeda (along with Saudi Arabia). And last I checked, NY was attacked by Al-Qaeda, not the Revolutionary Guards.[/quote]

No one has mentioned the US, fuckwad.

Maybe study up on your supposed religion. You know - the one that you shit about?

73

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
A manufactured fear - Israel isn’t going to nuke a Middle Eastern country unless attacked first, which we know is a distinct possibility. [/quote]

Doesn’t that statement of the obvious apply to Iran as well (supposing they are looking for nukes)?

Go tell that the Southern Lebanese.

74

[quote]rainjack wrote:
lixy wrote:
rainjack wrote:
I don’t think you have to worry so much about Pakistan going nuts wrt the ME - their enemy is India.

As opposed to Iran which will destroy the US with sheer willpower?

Pakistan is Al-Qaeda (along with Saudi Arabia). And last I checked, NY was attacked by Al-Qaeda, not the Revolutionary Guards.

No one has mentioned the US, fuckwad.

Maybe study up on your supposed religion. You know - the one that you shit about? [/quote]

I know I’ve only just stepped into the politics forum and I don’t know the history between you two but this seems very mean spirited.

75

[quote]rainjack wrote:
I agree that we see Iran differently. I don’t think you could call the knuckle head in power right now a stable person. I don’t think the country is stable. You don’t give a 2 year old kid a razor blade. I think the same common sense should apply to rogue states. [/quote]

Ok. But by what right do you want to take away their right to enrich uranium?

77

[quote]lixy wrote:
rainjack wrote:
I agree that we see Iran differently. I don’t think you could call the knuckle head in power right now a stable person. I don’t think the country is stable. You don’t give a 2 year old kid a razor blade. I think the same common sense should apply to rogue states.

Ok. But by what right do you want to take away their right to enrich uranium?[/quote]

Because it is an early step in developing nuclear weapons. How hard can it be for even a blithering idiot such as yourself to connect those two dots?

79

[quote]Chushin wrote:
orion wrote:

Iran, the ebil empire that is becoming more Westernized every day …

For Christ’s sake, if you are going to post on an English language site, learn how to spell! It’s e-V-i-l. Got it? I know it’s a big word, but if you try, you’ll learn it at some point.

Yeah, I know: It’s a “debilish” problem for a genius like you…

[/quote]

Chushin,

It is a fact that 99,9% of spelling is from the Internet.
Take it easy on His Highness, Chushin. The Austrians don’t even have their own language; they had to steal it from Germany. They are not like us Americans…

80

[quote]will to power wrote:

There’s a huge difference between conventional and nuclear warfare, in particular to the risks for the civilian population.[/quote]

Correct observation.

Interesting - you seem worried about justifications, but you don’t seem worried about the initial “justification” of attacking Israel. Nuclear weapons act as a deterrent to the Muslim barbarians’ desire to push Israel into the sea. If they get nuclear weapons, that deterrent disappears.

You appear to be confused on the nature of the aggressor here.

Nonsense - but just for kicks, let’s take it at face value. Let’s have an accounting - Israel gets attacked dating back to the 1940s, Israel gets threatened, Israel gets its civilians targeted by suicide bombers.

And you want to lay blame at Israel’s feet? Keep searching for the answer.