Also, I can’t speak for all of humanity, but here in America I would argue that we are going through a period in which we do NOT like violence as much as we used to. Violent crime in this country is lower than it’s been in 40 years and it’s been dropping every year for 20 years straight. Murder rates are following the same trends. It seems like kids aren’t encouraged to settle their difference through fisticuffs as much anymore. We don’t have real gladiators and we don’t watch public executions anymore. There is a significant opposition to the idea of the death penalty and this opposition is in its infancy compared to how long we’ve had the death penalty in Western society. Violence is still all around us, but it’s superficial violence. It’s on TV and in movies and in video games much more than in real life nowadays.
There has been an increase in violent video games sales, but those reasons can easily be explained. One, there are simply more and more people buying video games in general and two, kids aren’t outside playing cops and robbers or cowboys and Indians anymore; they just do it inside on PlayStation instead. When we were kids we played outside. I grew up in the video game era but the only game system I’ve EVER owned was the original Nintendo system. And maybe it’s THAT, the gamer generation, that will slowly walk away from the sport. I think there’s a certain disconnect from reality when you play these games online instead of outdoors with your friends.
Ever seen Born On the Fourth of July? Remember the scene in the beginning when the kids are playing some war game and one of the kids ambushes little Ronnie Kovic and stands over him shooting him with his fake gun and saying “you’re dead” over and over. That has a little more finality to it than playing Gears of War online and hearing your buddy scream that at you over your headset from halfway across town. I don’t think as a society we’ve become desensitized to REAL violence at all, only superficial, fake violence.
Perhaps kids who are growing up removed from the sort of closer contact and larger sense of acceptance of violence that we had as kids will watch these players on TV and it will have a large impact on them. Perhaps the fact that it’s a real-life person they’re watching denounce the institutionalized, encouraged violence on the football field will reach them, especially given that they don’t grow up with the sort of accepted violence that you and I grew up with.
All things must end and nothing lasts forever for sure.
However using your argument how long has the NFL been around? Could sports like football and MMA (which has grown in leaps and bounds over last 10 years) be the cause of this decrease in true violence? Could the male anger and pent up frustration be tempered by the mere fact of Football, MMA and video games?
There has not been a decrease in football related camps around the country if anything they have increased. There are more MMA places springing up all over the country. Humans are naturally violent and I think as a civilized society we divert this inherent violence in productive outlets.
Again my point is at this point in time Football fills that need and the cup over floweth. At some point if that bubble pops something else will fill that void. We have already seen that time and time again in history. Once that civilization happens and we no longer have to hunt and war for survival we turn to games.
[quote]DJHT wrote:
All things must end and nothing lasts forever for sure.
However using your argument how long has the NFL been around? Could sports like football and MMA (which has grown in leaps and bounds over last 10 years) be the cause of this decrease in true violence? Could the male anger and pent up frustration be tempered by the mere fact of Football, MMA and video games?
There has not been a decrease in football related camps around the country if anything they have increased. There are more MMA places springing up all over the country. Humans are naturally violent and I think as a civilized society we divert this inherent violence in productive outlets.
Again my point is at this point in time Football fills that need and the cup over floweth. At some point if that bubble pops something else will fill that void. We have already seen that time and time again in history. Once that civilization happens and we no longer have to hunt and war for survival we turn to games. [/quote]
Sure, football fills that need and has for almost 100 years. But that need is not infinite and I wouldn’t be surprised to see MMA fill part of the gap that the NFL might create if it loses popularity. Video games might help fill it as well. And how many of these camps are full-contact camps? How many full-contact camps can we expect in the future. Shit, the Ivy League recently announced that it has set its limit on full-contact practices to no more than, I believe, once a week. The NCAA has guidelines set, again if memory serves me, 3 days a week. How long before that number gets dropped down?
[quote]DJHT wrote:
All things must end and nothing lasts forever for sure.
However using your argument how long has the NFL been around? Could sports like football and MMA (which has grown in leaps and bounds over last 10 years) be the cause of this decrease in true violence? Could the male anger and pent up frustration be tempered by the mere fact of Football, MMA and video games?
There has not been a decrease in football related camps around the country if anything they have increased. There are more MMA places springing up all over the country. Humans are naturally violent and I think as a civilized society we divert this inherent violence in productive outlets.
Again my point is at this point in time Football fills that need and the cup over floweth. At some point if that bubble pops something else will fill that void. We have already seen that time and time again in history. Once that civilization happens and we no longer have to hunt and war for survival we turn to games. [/quote]
Also, you are correct that humans are violent by nature. But humans also have a very strong aversion to violence being visited upon them by others. That’s why we have societies and govt; we enter into social contracts so that there is some sort of codified, universally-recognized system that we are all beholden to that is designed to protect us from those who would do violent things to us. We avoid tangible violence whenever possible and fill that innate need for violence in some form through superficial violence. And really, these means are very, very new in the history of civilized man.
It is extremely rare for people to actually seek out physical violence, and the numbers support the idea that these sorts of people are becoming more and more rare each year. To me, it’s only a matter of time before this has a significant spillover effect on the NFL, and it may be happening right now.
[quote]DJHT wrote:
All things must end and nothing lasts forever for sure.
However using your argument how long has the NFL been around? Could sports like football and MMA (which has grown in leaps and bounds over last 10 years) be the cause of this decrease in true violence? Could the male anger and pent up frustration be tempered by the mere fact of Football, MMA and video games?
There has not been a decrease in football related camps around the country if anything they have increased. There are more MMA places springing up all over the country. Humans are naturally violent and I think as a civilized society we divert this inherent violence in productive outlets.
Again my point is at this point in time Football fills that need and the cup over floweth. At some point if that bubble pops something else will fill that void. We have already seen that time and time again in history. Once that civilization happens and we no longer have to hunt and war for survival we turn to games. [/quote]
Sure, football fills that need and has for almost 100 years. But that need is not infinite and I wouldn’t be surprised to see MMA fill part of the gap that the NFL might create if it loses popularity. Video games might help fill it as well. And how many of these camps are full-contact camps? How many full-contact camps can we expect in the future. Shit, the Ivy League recently announced that it has set its limit on full-contact practices to no more than, I believe, once a week. The NCAA has guidelines set, again if memory serves me, 3 days a week. How long before that number gets dropped down?[/quote]
Of course they are doing this to decrease the injuries occurring during practice and so players will be fresh for the game.
Yes the camps are all skill position camps QB, WR and RB camps again to protect against injury and litigation. However besides the parents nobody will every pay to see this. Just like who really watches the Pro-Bowl cause that is where you are suggesting the NFL will end up. The pro-bowl is a bastardized flag football, that I havent watched in 10 years.
Having played High School, College and tried out for the USFL…I’m not going to argue the above nor am I going to question/discuss the physics of the suggested helmet change. Two things:
First the sport is popular because of the game itself, but mostly because of the violent hits that take place. Sure the game has other facets of intrigue, but the core of the success of football is the violent encounters, be it a hit on the QB, a wide reciever, or the action of linemen. This alone is the core of the love for this game, without it you have something much less…Take Rugby and Australian football, both much more rugid a game and requires tremendous toughness, skill and endurance, never will be as popular as American Football…why?..they don’t wear helmets and pads that allow for more violent collisions.
Which brings me to my second point…the helmet…it is designed to protect the wearer from a catastophic event to the brain…works fairly well for most collisions, BUT not well for collisons that cause either a whiplash effect (player is hit head on, but then head springs back and hits ground) or when the blow is leveraged either on the side causeing severe neck extension and/or when a blow is to the face/lower jaw area only protected by a face mask, allowing for a true strike by extension and the padding of the helmet provides no assitance to distribute the blow.
Since forever the plastic/hard helmet has became a weapon of choice by an agressive player, allowing you to drive your body as a missile into that of the other player. Without changes to the helmet or substantial rule changes, which as DB says will change the game and if so will it still be poplular?
The only way to assist the current players and enhance safety is to change the helmets, as said above it’s in the works, and we will see how much it affects the game. IMHO not only does the helmet need to be changed but the use of neck devices should be incorporated, however to date these are somewhat cumbersome and restrict a players ability to swivel his head somewhat…
[quote]DJHT wrote:
All things must end and nothing lasts forever for sure.
However using your argument how long has the NFL been around? Could sports like football and MMA (which has grown in leaps and bounds over last 10 years) be the cause of this decrease in true violence? Could the male anger and pent up frustration be tempered by the mere fact of Football, MMA and video games?
There has not been a decrease in football related camps around the country if anything they have increased. There are more MMA places springing up all over the country. Humans are naturally violent and I think as a civilized society we divert this inherent violence in productive outlets.
Again my point is at this point in time Football fills that need and the cup over floweth. At some point if that bubble pops something else will fill that void. We have already seen that time and time again in history. Once that civilization happens and we no longer have to hunt and war for survival we turn to games. [/quote]
Also, you are correct that humans are violent by nature. But humans also have a very strong aversion to violence being visited upon them by others. That’s why we have societies and govt; we enter into social contracts so that there is some sort of codified, universally-recognized system that we are all beholden to that is designed to protect us from those who would do violent things to us. We avoid tangible violence whenever possible and fill that innate need for violence in some form through superficial violence. And really, these means are very, very new in the history of civilized man.
It is extremely rare for people to actually seek out physical violence, and the numbers support the idea that these sorts of people are becoming more and more rare each year. To me, it’s only a matter of time before this has a significant spillover effect on the NFL, and it may be happening right now.[/quote]
Yes but our “games” have rules and regulation for “fair” play just like our society. Finding that balance of fair and just without us regressing to slaves being sacrificed to lions is what I believe the NFL is trying to accomplish. Are they perfect no, are they still out to make a $ yes because it is a pro sport. However I warrant that at least 70% of the NFL owners do what they do because they love football. They do NOT want to see their investments damaged, that would be counter productive. I also believe that they do really care for the health and well being of the former players.
Also what has been the trend over the last 4-5 years? Drafting character players, the old thug life with issues is heavily scrutinized by the top notch teams IMO. There will always be exceptions natural bell curve no way you would bat a 1000 for a league of alter boys. However I think the league office is and has tried to put a stop to all that nonsense.