2 miles in fifteen minutes? That sounds a tad fast to me.
I’m glad this thread has generated so much attention. I took an anatomy course last semester and I was lab partners with this guy who I would have sworn was 25 or 30 tops. I asked him one day and he said he was 55!!! He said he attributes it to the weight training he does and working out. It looked like he had hit the fountain of youth or something. As soon as I get to be HYOOOG I’ll probably scale it down on th reps a bit to avoid tiring my body out… Of course that will be in like 12 years
[quote]kefu wrote:
World-class 100 metre sprinters may avoid cardio like the plague but everyone of them is still able to knock out a 5k run whenever they turn their hand to it. You can deadlift ten times your own bodyweight for all I care but if you can’t run two miles in fifteen minutes, you’re not fit in my book.
quote]
Thank you. I wasn’t bashing sprinters, or cyclists or swimmers or any other cardio athletes. I’m saying exactly what you said.
I’ve done the HIIT, the 20 rep squats, pushed my car (albeit, it’s a Suzuki Swift). Then I tried to go for a jog and realized ‘I can’t run very far without having a heart attack’. Moderation baby.
I guess I am bashing some bodybuilders to some degree LOL.
[quote]rainjack wrote:
This is a body building site.
[/quote]
Really? I don’t think T-Nation is a ‘bodybuilding’ site as much as it is a site that tells you how to build your body very, very well, and offers strong advice to strong minds and bodies on a myriad of topics.
And there some nice looking ladies displayed on the weekends. Can’t forget teh 8008135!
Nah… I am fast enough, but I have seen people throw down 3 miles in 15 and change. I don’t know about that horseshit. I blow chunks for the last quarter mile as it is. Whatever takes you to your limit.
Hey about that insurance bit and the BMI. AIG has enough money to rebuild many WTCs and even tsunami hit areas of Asia and India, but they cannot afford the truth on BMIs. Yeah I was either gonna be turned down for life insuranced or get my premiums increased because of my BMI. My weight during the test was 60lbs heavier than my ideal weight of 166lbs. What the hell is that crap?
I respectfully submit that you are wrong. Though it isn’t displayed due to the recent new product introduction, the site tagline is “Bodybuilding’s Think Tank”. That would be BODYBUILDING, hello?
However, I do understand that the information presented deals with a wide variety of topics and supports those interested in many sports or even simpler pursuits such as health and “weight” loss.
All that being said, if T-Nation wishes to modify it’s slant towards more of a mainstream non-bodybuilding position, that is certainly a potentially reasonable decision for them to make.
It doesn’t happen often enough, but I have to agree with Rainjack, Zeb and anyone else posting a similar viewpoint, this is in fact, until we are notified otherwise, a site concerning bodybuilding. Keep an eye on that tagline!
Anyway, regardless, for what it is worth, as far as I’m concerned all are welcome, as long as they have a live and let live philosophy with respect to the goals of others and threads geared towards those goals.
So, I’m now off to go frequent some running forums and gripe at everyone because they can’t bench their bodyweight… kidding!
[quote]VinceDee wrote:
rainjack wrote:
This is a body building site.
Really? I don’t think T-Nation is a ‘bodybuilding’ site as much as it is a site that tells you how to build your body very, very well, and offers strong advice to strong minds and bodies on a myriad of topics.
And there some nice looking ladies displayed on the weekends. Can’t forget teh 8008135!
[/quote]
Evidently the guys that run this site agree with me.
[quote]Wideguy wrote:
This is my take. Everyone here pretty much agrees that we all have a genetic potential in terms of how much we can carry “naturally”. For example my father is about 210 12-14% bdyft and up until recently never lifted any weights. Soo that in mind he could probably get up to 230-240 without drugs and his heart would still be able to comfortabley circulate blood through his system. Now lets say he puts on 70 lbs of mass with a few wicked cycles. Do you think his heart that was originally only supposed to circulate blood through a 210-240 lbs man is going to work the same? I’d think it’d be ALOT more stressful. Is this oversimplifying things? [/quote]
I thought wideguy hit the major issue here when it comes to aerobic conditioning. That seems to be what some people feel “fitness” is defined as. Clearly, there is no criteria for fitness. When ESPN chose their greatest athlete, they stated they were thinking in terms of endurance. Of course they picked Lance Armstrong. Anyway, I thought the issue was that your heart can’t keep pace with the muscle growth, not the overuse of drugs. I thought bodybuilders use pretty sophisticated stacks to minimize liver damage and don’t overdo the dosages. Correct me if I’m wrong, but aren’t the majority of former bodybuilders still doing okay?
Being former military I used to live by the standard of the PT test (1.5 mile run in 11 minutes) but I have since changed my view on this.
I could maintain this standard even at a BW of 220lb at 5’8".
Recently I dropped it as my standard for being fit. I feel it’s counter productive. I use a cardio monitor now and a simple uphill walk is enough to get my heart rate up to 125 bpm or 65% of my max heart rate.
I find this is plenty of cardio (I can take ten flights of stairs w/o being winded)for a guy my size.
The military was all about endurance and that’s great, it was geared towards the purpose. Now I realize that back when I was 18 and 150 pounds soaking wet, my heart rate was probably only 65% of my max heart rate during the run.
Now that I’m strength orientated I don’t have to cardio at the same standard as 150 pound guy to get the same benefit.
I’d still say I’m in good shape and you know what, my BF has actually decreased since dropping the intense 1.5 mile runs.
I have haerd of several studies that have proven that there is a positive corelation between increased muscle mass and both the quality and quantity of life as a person ages.If I can find them again and this thread is still running I’ll post them.
And what the hell is a meathead mentality? Do I have one? I want to stay big, strong, and lean. I’m prety sure that this is the way to go.Hell, I have even dedicated a large part of my life to it. You could say that I’m betting on it. I know a couple of people who participate in Ironmans and also weight train. Are they meatheads, or just confused? I wish I had the direction of Vince Dee before I wasted all that money on a basement full of weights and equipment. Then again at $200 a pair, If I had been running for all these years I guess I would have spent a few K on shoes instead.
Great,now I an riddled with self doubt.
Happy now, running man?
All I was trying to say is that a little running goes a long way. So some of you aren’t interested - that’s fine.
This is a guy whose primary concern seems to be not to upset his girlfriend too much. If he starts lifting weights and running at the same time - he’s going to end up very athletic-looking and there’ll be no question of being huge or his girlfriend being worried about him.
As already said, I think at the weight he described, he has a good couple of years before he even needs to worry about this issue.
Also, you know I don’t give a f**k about the poster who says he can run two miles in 12 mins 30 secs.
I was just setting what I thought was an attainable standard to expect from a guy of his weight and age.
I do not expect a power-lifter or bodybuilder to be able to do this because they have chosen to forego that element of their all-round fitness in pursuit of strength or size.
This guy does not sound like he is aiming to be a powerlifter and it sounds to me like a bit of all-round lifting and running would be ideal for him.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Your statement is why some athletes and bodybuilders have trouble getting health insurance because the BMI is used…because they do not take into consideration muscle against body fat. Being smaller does not make you healthier. Body composition and cardio training are the main factors.
As far as a study on worms, there have been more extensive studies on monkeys and while those with lower daily food intakes seem to live longer, your deduction that this means anyone who gains weight is at risk is also wrong. Gaining weight is not the issue. It is believed that food oxidation is the problem, thus, the more meals you eat, the more food oxidation occurs. This is only a theory, however. That means, if your goal is to out live everyone else, perhaps you need to find a really large - yet comfortable - bubble to live in and restrict meals to possibly once a day, or better yet, once every two days. Of course, you won’t actually be “living” very much, but if anyone is more likely to hit the age of 115…[/quote]
My statement doesn’t have any power in qualifying for health insurance. A fit 300lber and an obese 300lber are in no way going to see anything past 75 years old. I was talking about longevity. While I don’t agree with the BMI for those who carry an inkling of muscle being overweight does equate to a shorter life. All things being equal I don’t think being lighter is healthier but it does appear to lead to longer life. I’m not sacrificing muscle for the hopes I can live 2-3 years longer because when that bus jumps the curb…
I don’t give much weight to studies conducted in animals. From worms to rhesus to baboons to pigs…there are far too many drugs which have worked beautifully in animals which are a disaster in humans. There’s a reason for the human trials requirement in approving these drugs.
I think we’re splitting hairs on this. To put it simply, a 300lb chimp will not outlive a 98lb backstreet boy on the new “South Beach Diet: Worm edition”…
I have to say that I think you’re oversimplifying. Like most people… including some scientists they take a group and assume the correlation has something to do with the most obvious commonality. They then explain families like mine as anomalies. My innate grandfather is 74 and still swims 3 miles in the ocean once a week. (during the summer, during the winter he does the treadpool thing.) He can still BP 225lbs for 4x10 and can squat 300lbs. He is ~5’10" and weighs over 200lbs.
My agnate greatgrandfather lived to be 105 and he could still do 50 pushups on his 100th bday and crush a walnut in his bare hands.
He maybe weighed 170lbs when he died, but was 5’6".
I expect to be well over 200lbs when I die… and still kicking ass.
