I find it interesting that so often when Americans are criticized for some of their foreign policy decisons that they are always so eager to stand up and proclaim that “we are the greatest country in world”. Exactly what barometer are these patriotic souls using to determine that they are indeed the greatest?
America is a free democratic country. No arguments there. It would certainly suck to live in fascist or totalitarian regime. But America is not alone there- there are plenty of “free countries” (Canada, United Kingdom, Australia, Scandanavia, etc.)
America has always opened its arms to refugees of the world fleeing starvation, oppression, genocide and tyranny. Certainly! But again- we are not alone in this practice. Many other countries like the ones listed previously did (when they had the means), and continue to do so as well.
America is the police force of the world and upholders of democracy. Without question, since its creation America has done a lot of “good” in stopping the spread of fascism and global tyranny (World War 1 & 2, perhaps the Korean conflict, Bosnia, etc). But throughout the last 50 years, they have for the most part only particpated in campaigns that support US interests (read: $$) (Viet Nam, the Gulf War as well as dozens of more covert engagements throughout Central America, Somalia, the Sudan, and throughout the Middle East).
You can be anything you want in America- you just gotta work hard and persevere. OK, lets cut the rhetoric and take the rose coloured glasses off here. The gap between rich and poor in America is truly appaling. And it is only getting worse. Try telling the millions of working poor in the mills, factories and restaurants across America that they just gotta put their nose to the grind stone and success will follow.
In America, health care is free and available to all. Woops- sorry- thats Canada, Scandanavia, the UK. Granted, in Canada if you want a CAT scan in the next year you’re better off paying the 2 grand USD and head south anyway.
America has the most sophisticated, equipped, advanced military on Earth. No arguments there.
America has the greatest entertainment industry on Earth. Without question- but have you ever stopped to wonder just why there is such a demand for escapism?
In America, people prosper without the specter of racial oppression. Easy thing for a white person to say. I wonder if America’s black, Asian etc population can verify these claims?
So what is “the greatest nation on Earth”? Using real standards such as education of its citizens, level of available health care, net income and overall level of satisfaction, the United Nations rated the United States of America out of the top 10 for 2002. The top countries? Norway, Australia, Canada, Sweden…just to name a few…
In summation, in no way am I intending to rake America or its citizens across the coals. I love many many aspects of America and I am most certainly overlooking dozens of positive, charitable acts that America does both within and outside of its borders. However, my beef lies in everyday Americans inflated sense of self worth and perceived global superiority. Please. As everyday working joes, none of us has the right to suddenly stand on a soapbox and proclaim “We are the greatest nation on Earth”. In the end, the true experts in these matters rate things much differently.
And yet, people don’t flock to Norway en masse from every single corner of the globe, with nary a dime to their names, often risking their lives in the process. Interesting . . .
Agreed. Most countries do not like the US anyhow and to be quite honest I really do not care what they think. Saddam Hussein would be all too willing to use biological or nuclear weapons against any of his enemies (particularly Israel and the United states) without a twinge of conscience.
I recall as a teenager (when the PErsian Gul War ended). Even then I realized it was a big mistake to leave this ruthless dictator in power.
Some words from George C. Scott (in the film Patton) come to mind: “The politicians always stop short and leave us with another war to fight” [Keep in mind it is this particular quote I am emphasizing].
During the Persian Gulf War Israel was attacked by Iraq with scud missles and out of respect for the US’s wishes Israel did not retaliate (which was unbearable from Israel’s standpoint I’m sure). From what I hear the sentiment in Israel is that they will not sit by this time while another country attacks her and frankly why should they? This is unrealistic to ask of them.
[Bus driver: I’m assuming you live in Israel so please correct me if I’m wrong in my assesment of the latter part of my post].
Lastly, if you do go to war with Iraq I’m happy t oknow we have the full support of Israel…the ONLY democracy in the entire middle east and completely anti-terrorism. Take care guys…
I know this is off topic but it is in reply to the above statements about racial opression in America which is completely ignorant and obvious that the person is uninformed.
I am a white male, first generation college student. What kind of money do you think was given to me as an independent student(read: no mommy or daddy to help)? $500. I made $11,243 on my W-2 last year so it’s not like I come from any money, rich family or anything. Do you think that minorities that made below the poverty level have the same problem? Nope they have grants (NAACP, etc) out the ass for being “opresseed by the white man”. While I, the opressor have to borrow 60 K just to cover the basics. Am I bitching? No I’m happy to borrow the money because I know it’s worth it!! I’m just proving a point.
There aren’t any reasons for anyone in this country not to be able to advance themselves. The money is there if you’re white and poor, black and poor, immigrant and wealthy. You just have to borrow it or, dare I say, work for it. Welcome to America where the top dog wins.
Brian, I agree that are plenty of other great nations to live and raise a family. I don’t doubt that. But these countries don’t bend over backwards to help other countries like the U.S does. Then when the U.S does something wrong, and indeed they have in the past, we are labeled as evil and immoral. Nevermind that New York and Washington D.C get raped by terrorist and we have to rebuild ourselves. Who comes to us in our time of need? Not a goddamn soul. Its crap like this that pisses me off. Then for Big J to say “we can have nuclear weapons but Saddam can’t, that’s not fair.” Well, like Damici said, and I agree, Saddam wouldn’t think twice at nuking our asses. Sorry for the rant. I just can’t help but thinking that if we allow Saddam and Bin Laden to continue living, we won’t be worrying about planes flying into buildings. Instead we’ll be dealing with radiation poisoning and Small-Pox.
Bus Driver, I’m not making any claims on being an expert, but I think read somewhere that back when Israel was formed the US subsidised around 74% of their economy like they would farmers here in America. Treating Israel like a giant Amtrak. I think we’ve dropped the aid significantly to a little over a half. I read this somewhere around a year ago on US foreign policy. I’m not for sure on this so don’t hold these numbers or anything as Gospel.
Fuck Mufasa. This on really takes the cake. He has fucking NUKES. That is reason enough. Osama can surely be found in Irag also. Dictators beware, Bush will take bribes but he ain’t havin’ no nut jobs in power. I think in the next eight years (yeah, because there isn’t anybody good in line) we are gonna see some killing. He has a good record for that and Daddy’s legacy to avenge. Besides that, who really gives a fuck what anybody who fights over religion thinks. They are too stupid to worry about, maybe with a little freedom they will not be so worthless. I subscribe to the theory of an “EYE FOR A HEART” so as not to lose my other eye. Every country over there is too pussy or too weak to finish the fight and their motivation is just some lame religion. We fucking kick ass because we are close to losing our freedom and we just don’t put up with that shit from other countries. We do enough of that ourselves. He must be removed from power or better yet let’s Nuke baghdad just to show the world we aren’t fucking around. You take an eye(world trade) I then take your HEART. I’ll take that butterflyed medium well, thank you.
Lunch box, how can you speak of UN policys when USA owns the UN $1.117 billion? How come “the greatest nation in the world” can’t pay its dues to the United nations? That’s strange… I guess it is OK to break the rules after all. The United States is set to give 283 million US dollars as aid to the United Nations. Of that, 165 million is overdue payments from 2001.
If America wants to go to war with Iraq thats fine but your not dragging us or any other Europiens with you. And to whoever it was that said Europeins were not ‘war crazy’ it might have a little somthing to do with the fact that in WW2 many parts of mainland Europe were blown to fuck and millions dead on thier own doorstep. Here in the U.K Tony ‘kiss ass’ Blair stands behinde bush probably to abvod future conflict but I don’t.
The war on terror was a just one, starting on Iraq is a whole different ball game in that the enemy is stronger and they as of yet have not thrown the first punch. I agree with big J they just don’t want to be Americanised and who can blame them. The war with Iraq is unwinnable just like Vietnam, once bitten twice shy evedently not.
What do you mean that Iraq has not thrown the first punch?? Saddam finances terrorism.
What do you mean this war is unwinnable just like vietnam?? I guess you forget the Gulf war that happened in the early 90’s. Iraqi soilders were surrendering in the 1000’s. There were so many Iraqi PW’s that the USA and allied nations didn’t know what to do with them. Iraqi soilders are cowards and will give up just as fast if another war starts.
Saddam and Iraq are all talk and no action. Before a war happens they will strut around telling people how they will fight to the death and the desert will turn red with the blood of their enemies but when a fight actually happens they cry and surrender because they are cowards.
“who gives a fuck about people who fight over religion”…
Believe it or not T_END, religion is extremely important to billions and billions of people. While you may not give two shits about what happens to your soul after you pass on (and everybody dies, that is a for certain), religion, faith and salvation is of the utmost importance to billions of individuals. I agree that taking another man’s life in the name of God, the bible, the Koran (spell?) or a Martha Stewart cookbook is wrong. But your “who gives a fuck” attitude is utterly ignorant.
“lets nuke Baghdad just to show the world we’re not fucking around”.
OK- and al-qaeda are the terrorists? Would nuking Baghdad show the world how we stand up against terrorism and senseless human suffering? Give your head a shake! Do you realize how ignorant and stupid you sound!
Ethno-centric, ignorant attitudes like T_END’s are exactly the reason why Americans are sadly viewed in such a negative light by most of the world’s five billion residents. What is really sad is that that your opinions are in fact the (very vocal) minority. Most Americans probably wouldn’t want to even associate with you. Of course, my own disagreement with your ideals will probably lead you to label me as “anti-American” or “terrorist sympathiser”. Oh well- one of the greatest things about America is that even ignorant red-necks are entitled to their opinion. It’s your right.
Brian I have to agree with your post for the most part. I’m not saying America is a bad country but “the greatest country in the world”??? If you count military power as your standard of measure then damn right. Heheh. That’s why I always say America is the most powerful country in the world. Brian brought up a good point by basically stating anything you can do in America you can do in Canada, Sweden etc. etc. Heck I think Canada is the greatest country in the world…but I’m Canadian(first time I’ve said that on the forum…probably the last). Heheh. I mean to me it’s not so much that Americans believe that America is the best it’s just that they proclaim it all the time. That and if more American’s kept an open mind about America…ie: “America is great but it has it’s problems that need to be fixed.” I have this same view of Canada. I love Canada but if I ain’t pissed about how our leaders handle certain things…namely our military…or lack there of. Now all that being said I’m still glad to be next to the States. For the most part 90% of American’s I’ve spoken with through work or on vacation etc. have been extremely polite friendly people. America and Canada both profit from our relationship. Now why America backs Israel is beyond me. I mean I like to help people out too but. Could someone explain this too me?
There are billions and billions of people who hold religion dear to their heart and they are all fucking idiots. Most every God Fearing man will tell you that it is not a religion but a relationship with our maker that is important. It is you fuck nuts that think you need temples and holy ground and trinkets that muck it all up. But my point was that in Irag and these other middle eastern countries there is no place for freedom, and without that you have nothing, and nothing stands for zero, so who cares about losing something that isn’t anything to begin with. I was thinking something the other day when a friend of mine’s sister was wearing her “shaw” or whatever the hell that shit they wear over their face is. It must have been 80 degrees out and she was covered from head to toe standing right next to my girl friend wearing shorts, sandals and a tank top. Women wearing that shit over their face is like a black man flying a confederate flag. brian it is limping gazzelles like you that I pounce on first for breakfast each day. You are not smart enough nor are you man enough to kill so as not to be killed. It is because of men like me that you have the freedom to be such a pussy.
T_END, I actually feel bad for you. At times, you appear quite intelligent- you made some good points pertaining to religious conviction that I actually agree with (that the relationship to one’s creator is important, not all the ceremonial baggage.) But then your IQ appears to plummett like Nortel stock and you start rambling that I am a “limping gazelle that you pounce on for breakfast everyday.” OK- so now the discussion has switched from US foreign policy to T_END’s Theory of Social Darwinism? Grow up. Not every one you meet will have an opinion convergent with yours. Your inability to engage in heated discussion without appearing belligerent and hostile reveals a lot of your intellectual inadequacies. If you want to discuss perceived errors in US foreign policy and the Iraq controversy, be my guest. If you want to be a cyber tough guy who who throws out challenges from the safety of his PC- start another thread. Call it the Small Minded/ Small Man Syndrome support thread.
Heh heh heh…I’ve been gone for a while ad dthings certainly have gotten lively around here…its good to see that I’m not the only one that doesn’t have his had up bush’s ass. I wonder how long we can keep this post civilised?
The US backs Israel because it is the ONLY democracy in the middle east (I dont know how many times I’ve posted this statement) and unfortunately for Israel it is completely surrounded by nations who seek her total destruction.
After 9/11 I find it impossible to ignore the teorristic nations any further. Selfishly I would rather “stay out of it” but there comes a time when you cannot ignore a problem anymore by wishing it away. Britan and France did this with Nazi Germany. So much so that by 1940 Germany (the infamous Chamberlain proclimation of : “peace in our time” comes ot mind) had a powerful enough nation to stand up against those two nations. Interestingly enough when Hitler’s armies marched inot Poland there was surprisingly little to defend itself on its wester border. Yet they sat and waited for Hitler to attack. Big mistake. I could use other analogies but WWII is so infamous and well known that more can relate to it.
I do find it surprising (maybe I shouldn’t) that some people are apathetic even after what was done to the US on 9/11. I suppose we should waituntil someone like Saddam finally launches a nuclear warhead at NY, Wash, or some other city then decide to do something about it.
Also it is important to have religious freedom. The inquisition for one proved that whole heatedly. Freedom PERIOD is extremely important. However regimes in the middle east are extremely oppressive. Particularly to women. Incidently when the US was willing enough send our military over to there to kick out Saddams armies during the Persian Gulf War the Arabs were not even willing to let our own troops who were fighting for THEIR protection to carry Bibles on their person. Very ungrateful I must add.
Lastly I d othink it is important to NEVER underestimate the enemy in war. Too many times this had been done and has led to disaster. However I do think it can definetly be won with hte right heads involved in strategy and tactics. Hopefully the right thing will be done. Take care…
Okay brian since you can’t keep up let me slow it down for you. This quasi free market system we prosper in now is modeled after simple rules of survival. Let’s just say you own a dry cleaning biz and so do I. The second I sense any weakness you are as good as dead. I feel that I can provide a better, cheaper service to my fellow man than you and when I prove so you will be out of biz. I will wait until your worst month to open up a shop right next to yours only to break even just to get you out of my demographics. Get it. How is business different from survival? You don’t physically kill someone but, speaking in principle, you keep them from eating so you can eat more or to prevent them from thinking they can eat your share. As for Iraq policy, fuck policy, they are dangerous because they aren’t even close to freedom. Live free or die, very simple concept. Don’t think for one second that these dictators won’t kill you to ensure they remain in power. Well, I am just saying I am willing to kill them inorder to save billions of people their freedom
