Iranian Nuclear Program

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
41

[quote]JeffR wrote:
jtf,

I appreciate your response.

However, I wish I was as calm as you about the situation.

The iranian nutjob has pledged total destruction of Israel and the United States. He is on a crash course to develop nuclear weaponery.

I’m sorry, but, it’s hard not to put those two together.

Finally, besides saying you hate W., you didn’t offer any alternatives.

I’d still like to hear your suggestions.

Thanks in advance,

JeffR
[/quote]

“Every war when it comes, or before it comes, is represented not as a war but as an act of self-defense against a homicidal maniac.”
–George Orwell

I think the best way to ruin Iran would be to give them “W”…

But seriously folks… the thing that bothers me is that there is no FIRM intelligence estimate of what Iran really has, and unlike ISRAEL, they have been cooperating with IAEA inspectors.

All the same people who were RIGHT about Iraq, are sounding the same warnings about Iran.

Former Weapons Inspector, Experts Warn Against Military Action Toward Iran
http://voanews.com/english/archive/2006-10/2006-10-12-voa47.cfm?CFID=88784267&CFTOKEN=72085270

The “secret cabal”, Lawrence Wilkerson talks about has hijacked America’s foreign policy and is working on it’s own, to pursue interests that have almost no benefit to America and in fact are making us universally HATED around the world.

Neocons Blocked 2003 Nuclear Talks With Iran
Lawrence Wilkerson, then chief of staff to Secretary of State Colin Powell, says the failure to adopt a formal Iran policy in 2002-2003 was the result of obstruction by a “secret cabal” of neoconservatives in the administration, led by Vice President Dick Cheney.

If we attack Iran, not only will Iran’s population turn against us, we risk destroying relations with Russia and China as well.

What happens to the US when gasoline hits $6.00+ a gallon? Most people will suddenly be wishing a nuclear bomb was their biggest worry. But then again a good portion of men & WOMEN under 40 will probably be drafted so we won’t have them driving around wasting so much fuel anymore.

The saddest part is, if we really wanted to take out Iran, we’d cut off their source of income. The technology to do so is for all intense and purpose, already here but mostly suppressed, underfunded and being outright hidden.
http://www.ev1.org/chevron.htm

Considering that a 100% electric car that goes 0-60 in 4 seconds and can go 250 miles on a single charge is ALREADY IN PRODUCTION – it makes me literally nauseous to have to talk about Iran and Iraq’s natural resources as a reason to start WWIII.

That car would get 95% of every working person in the US back and forth to work for an entire week ON A SINGLE CHARGE. The more I think about that car, the more pissed off I get about where we appear to be headed.

Iran discovers new onshore oil field

42

cool ride

43

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
OKLAHOMA STATE wrote:

Why did we overthrow Mossadegh, who was completely pro-Western (did his schooling in England)? Because he had the nerve to nationalize Iran’s oil. I mean oh my God, he wanted Iranians to have control of their own resources. What a bad man!

If we hadn’t overthrown Mossadegh in 1953 Iran would still be a democracy and the middle east would be a lot more stable than it is. Our foreign policy is incredibly short-sighted.

The British developed Iran’s oil fields, then kicked them out, after the Brits had done all the work. What kind of compensation did Iran offer, after someone else did all the work?

You honestly think Iran would be a peaceful democracy today? You then call US irrational?

Wow…

[/quote]

Stunning isn’t it?

44

Wow, JTF…

Lately I’ve been thinking in much the same, VERY frustrated way…

What if we took a FRACTION of the Trillions we spend on “Killing” Wars…and decided we would fight a war of “Self-Sufficiency” in which we became 0 (zero) dependent on Foreign Oil?

What would happen if we simply said (as a start) that all Governmental and Business vehicles needed to be totally electric, and gave businesses Tax Incentives to do so ?

Too naive and “pie-in-the-sky” I guess…

It seems like we are more hell-bent on fighting “Killing” Wars with the “Black Gold” always seeming to be the backdrop…

Mufasa

45

That car costs more than 90 grand. But if they make a much cheaper car that can still do 0-60 under 6 secs I would seriously make it my priority to buy one.

46

That cost would most CERTAINLY come down with much larger volume (eg Governmental/Business), ESPCIALLY if there was a chance of being a major player in the U.S. market.

Mufasa

47

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
You honestly think Iran would be a peaceful democracy today? You then call US irrational?

Wow…

[/quote]

Absolutely. The whole basis of the 1979 Iranian Revolution was their lack of political freedom. No US-imposed despot= no 1979 revolution.

Yes, our foreign policy is incredibly short-sighted at times.

Again, not that I’d expect you or Zap to have any rational knowledge of history.

48

[quote]OKLAHOMA STATE wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
You honestly think Iran would be a peaceful democracy today? You then call US irrational?

Wow…

Absolutely. The whole basis of the 1979 Iranian Revolution was their lack of political freedom. No US-imposed despot= no 1979 revolution.

Yes, our foreign policy is incredibly short-sighted at times.

Again, not that I’d expect you or Zap to have any rational knowledge of history.[/quote]

You didn’t address the theft of the British oil companies investment of material and labor.

49

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
OKLAHOMA STATE wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
You honestly think Iran would be a peaceful democracy today? You then call US irrational?

Wow…

Absolutely. The whole basis of the 1979 Iranian Revolution was their lack of political freedom. No US-imposed despot= no 1979 revolution.

Yes, our foreign policy is incredibly short-sighted at times.

Again, not that I’d expect you or Zap to have any rational knowledge of history.

You didn’t address the theft of the British oil companies investment of material and labor.

[/quote]

So what.

Governments coerce and steal.

Is that completely new to you and why does it matter if it happens halfway around the globe?

50

[quote]orion wrote:

Boohoo, those bastards killed 3000 people and took down 2 towers which does of course justify bombing the shit out of countries whose inhabitants look roughly the same, but when they get a little cranky after you helped murder a few millions, well, they clearly hate you for your freedom…

[/quote]

This is ablsotutely correct. We are still whining about a piddly little 3000 americans killed on 9/11. We should have just taken it. I believe they are completly justified in attacking the US. We should have thanked them for opening our eyes.

I myself, look forward to the day when we can all live peacefully under islamic law. There are two types of people in the world, those know and love islamic rule and those who deserve to die.
I think it’s time we fall on our own sword. We should be ashamed to be Americans.

51

One other point to consider, gents…if the world is chaotic, investors tend to ‘pull in their horns’. Look what’s happening in Venezuela — anyone here care to invest a few dollars down there, to be confiscated by that scumbag?

It therefore makes no sense to develop oilfields, mines, or anything else that can be confiscated by the local tribal chieftain. The third world suffers in destitution, while developed countries get the cash, low-interest rates and soaring stock markets (the cash has to go somewhere).

When the world goes unpoliced, its the poor that suffer the most.

52

[quote]pat36 wrote:
orion wrote:

Boohoo, those bastards killed 3000 people and took down 2 towers which does of course justify bombing the shit out of countries whose inhabitants look roughly the same, but when they get a little cranky after you helped murder a few millions, well, they clearly hate you for your freedom…

This is ablsotutely correct. We are still whining about a piddly little 3000 americans killed on 9/11. We should have just taken it. I believe they are completly justified in attacking the US. We should have thanked them for opening our eyes.

I myself, look forward to the day when we can all live peacefully under islamic law. There are two types of people in the world, those know and love islamic rule and those who deserve to die.
I think it’s time we fall on our own sword. We should be ashamed to be Americans.
[/quote]

orion,

Please tell me you don’t believe all of the things you type. To minimize September 11th, 2001 is not only incredibly insensitive and crass, it makes one think that you are a schtick trying to get attention.

Please tell me it’s the latter. If you need attention, pm me your address and I’ll have mongo the singing gorilla visit you. I might even teach him to write your name in gorilla crap.

However, if you truly believe that 3000 American innocents killed was trifling, then I hope you develop kidney stones that you cannot pass. I hope they are as jagged as possible. I hope it takes several painful operations before they are removed.

JeffR

53

[quote]oKLAHOMA sTATE wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
You honestly think Iran would be a peaceful democracy today? You then call US irrational?

Wow…

Absolutely. The whole basis of the 1979 Iranian Revolution was their lack of political freedom. No US-imposed despot= no 1979 revolution.

Yes, our foreign policy is incredibly short-sighted at times.

Again, not that I’d expect you or Zap to have any rational knowledge of history.[/quote]

Hey, cowboy.

Just wanted to drop you a line and tell you that it strikes me as amusing that a guy who cannot understand the geo-political consequences of failure in Iraq would dare lecture anyone on short-sightedness.

Thanks for the chuckle,

JeffR

54

[quote]JustTheFacts wrote:
JeffR wrote:
jtf,

I appreciate your response.

However, I wish I was as calm as you about the situation.

The iranian nutjob has pledged total destruction of Israel and the United States. He is on a crash course to develop nuclear weaponery.

I’m sorry, but, it’s hard not to put those two together.

Finally, besides saying you hate W., you didn’t offer any alternatives.

I’d still like to hear your suggestions.

Thanks in advance,

JeffR

“Every war when it comes, or before it comes, is represented not as a war but as an act of self-defense against a homicidal maniac.”
–George Orwell

I think the best way to ruin Iran would be to give them “W”…

But seriously folks… the thing that bothers me is that there is no FIRM intelligence estimate of what Iran really has, and unlike ISRAEL, they have been cooperating with IAEA inspectors.

All the same people who were RIGHT about Iraq, are sounding the same warnings about Iran.

Former Weapons Inspector, Experts Warn Against Military Action Toward Iran
http://voanews.com/english/archive/2006-10/2006-10-12-voa47.cfm?CFID=88784267&CFTOKEN=72085270

The “secret cabal”, Lawrence Wilkerson talks about has hijacked America’s foreign policy and is working on it’s own, to pursue interests that have almost no benefit to America and in fact are making us universally HATED around the world.

Neocons Blocked 2003 Nuclear Talks With Iran
Lawrence Wilkerson, then chief of staff to Secretary of State Colin Powell, says the failure to adopt a formal Iran policy in 2002-2003 was the result of obstruction by a “secret cabal” of neoconservatives in the administration, led by Vice President Dick Cheney.

If we attack Iran, not only will Iran’s population turn against us, we risk destroying relations with Russia and China as well.

What happens to the US when gasoline hits $6.00+ a gallon? Most people will suddenly be wishing a nuclear bomb was their biggest worry. But then again a good portion of men & WOMEN under 40 will probably be drafted so we won’t have them driving around wasting so much fuel anymore.

The saddest part is, if we really wanted to take out Iran, we’d cut off their source of income. The technology to do so is for all intense and purpose, already here but mostly suppressed, underfunded and being outright hidden.
http://www.ev1.org/chevron.htm

Considering that a 100% electric car that goes 0-60 in 4 seconds and can go 250 miles on a single charge is ALREADY IN PRODUCTION – it makes me literally nauseous to have to talk about Iran and Iraq’s natural resources as a reason to start WWIII.

That car would get 95% of every working person in the US back and forth to work for an entire week ON A SINGLE CHARGE. The more I think about that car, the more pissed off I get about where we appear to be headed.

Iran discovers new onshore oil field

jtf,

Third and final request: What is your solution for iran circa january 29th, 2007.

For the purposes of discussion, let’s drop the “it’s all Bush’s fault” for a while.

Let’s hear your solutions.

Thanks in advance,

JeffR

55

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
OKLAHOMA STATE wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
You honestly think Iran would be a peaceful democracy today? You then call US irrational?

Wow…

Absolutely. The whole basis of the 1979 Iranian Revolution was their lack of political freedom. No US-imposed despot= no 1979 revolution.

Yes, our foreign policy is incredibly short-sighted at times.

Again, not that I’d expect you or Zap to have any rational knowledge of history.

You didn’t address the theft of the British oil companies investment of material and labor.

[/quote]

Under the agreement the British enforced on the Iranians,Iran recieved 15% of the net profit for their ownership of this non renewable resource.
I doubt any nation would have accepted those terms for very long.
And I’m fairly sure the British companies more than adequately recouped any investment in labour and equipment they may have made.
If the companies had been a little more magnanimous in their sharing of the wealth with the Iranian state,do you believe that they would have been kicked out?
I don’t think so.
It was sheer old fashioned greed that cost the oil concessions.

56

Iran will soon run Iraq?

57

[quote]Neuromancer wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
OKLAHOMA STATE wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
You honestly think Iran would be a peaceful democracy today? You then call US irrational?

Wow…

Absolutely. The whole basis of the 1979 Iranian Revolution was their lack of political freedom. No US-imposed despot= no 1979 revolution.

Yes, our foreign policy is incredibly short-sighted at times.

Again, not that I’d expect you or Zap to have any rational knowledge of history.

You didn’t address the theft of the British oil companies investment of material and labor.

Under the agreement the British enforced on the Iranians,Iran recieved 15% of the net profit for their ownership of this non renewable resource.
I doubt any nation would have accepted those terms for very long.
And I’m fairly sure the British companies more than adequately recouped any investment in labour and equipment they may have made.
If the companies had been a little more magnanimous in their sharing of the wealth with the Iranian state,do you believe that they would have been kicked out?
I don’t think so.
It was sheer old fashioned greed that cost the oil concessions.[/quote]

Greed makes the world go around. Without the oil companies greed we would be walking.

58

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Neuromancer wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
OKLAHOMA STATE wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
You honestly think Iran would be a peaceful democracy today? You then call US irrational?

Wow…

Absolutely. The whole basis of the 1979 Iranian Revolution was their lack of political freedom. No US-imposed despot= no 1979 revolution.

Yes, our foreign policy is incredibly short-sighted at times.

Again, not that I’d expect you or Zap to have any rational knowledge of history.

You didn’t address the theft of the British oil companies investment of material and labor.

Under the agreement the British enforced on the Iranians,Iran recieved 15% of the net profit for their ownership of this non renewable resource.
I doubt any nation would have accepted those terms for very long.
And I’m fairly sure the British companies more than adequately recouped any investment in labour and equipment they may have made.
If the companies had been a little more magnanimous in their sharing of the wealth with the Iranian state,do you believe that they would have been kicked out?
I don’t think so.
It was sheer old fashioned greed that cost the oil concessions.

Greed makes the world go around. Without the oil companies greed we would be walking.[/quote]

I agree,but it has to benefit both sides in an equation like this one.A smaller profit over a longer time span.
You don’t find the figures slightly one sided?

59

[quote]pat36 wrote:
orion wrote:

Boohoo, those bastards killed 3000 people and took down 2 towers which does of course justify bombing the shit out of countries whose inhabitants look roughly the same, but when they get a little cranky after you helped murder a few millions, well, they clearly hate you for your freedom…

This is ablsotutely correct. We are still whining about a piddly little 3000 americans killed on 9/11. We should have just taken it. I believe they are completly justified in attacking the US. We should have thanked them for opening our eyes.

I myself, look forward to the day when we can all live peacefully under islamic law. There are two types of people in the world, those know and love islamic rule and those who deserve to die.
I think it’s time we fall on our own sword. We should be ashamed to be Americans.
[/quote]

No, you, and I mean you, personally should be ashamed for not understanding that they are human beings and react the same way you do.

You should not be ashamed for your lack of empathy but for the lack of emotional and intellectual education and sophistication that makes you a useful idiot for a system that thrives on constant warfare.

You remember US college kids shouting “Ho-Ho-Ho-Chi-Minh!” in he 60s? Thats what you are, in reverse.

60

[quote]JeffR wrote:
pat36 wrote:
orion wrote:

Boohoo, those bastards killed 3000 people and took down 2 towers which does of course justify bombing the shit out of countries whose inhabitants look roughly the same, but when they get a little cranky after you helped murder a few millions, well, they clearly hate you for your freedom…

This is ablsotutely correct. We are still whining about a piddly little 3000 americans killed on 9/11. We should have just taken it. I believe they are completly justified in attacking the US. We should have thanked them for opening our eyes.

I myself, look forward to the day when we can all live peacefully under islamic law. There are two types of people in the world, those know and love islamic rule and those who deserve to die.
I think it’s time we fall on our own sword. We should be ashamed to be Americans.

orion,

Please tell me you don’t believe all of the things you type. To minimize September 11th, 2001 is not only incredibly insensitive and crass, it makes one think that you are a schtick trying to get attention.

Please tell me it’s the latter. If you need attention, pm me your address and I’ll have mongo the singing gorilla visit you. I might even teach him to write your name in gorilla crap.

However, if you truly believe that 3000 American innocents killed was trifling, then I hope you develop kidney stones that you cannot pass. I hope they are as jagged as possible. I hope it takes several painful operations before they are removed.

JeffR[/quote]

Millions in the Iraq/Iran war, thousands in the war on drugs in Columbia, a few hundred thousand in Iraq now…

vs 3000 people…

Action-> Reaction…

Get it?

Plus were is your “sensitivity” when it comes to non American lives?

Dozens of people were killed in Somalia recently, the alleged three al-Queda members were not among them.

Business as usual I guess, but 3000 AMERICANS, whoa, that means crossing a line…

You know what, maybe it was part of the white man`s burden…