Dudes they won’t directly nuke anyone but they can always secretly give it to terrorists who can smuggle it near the United States coast through a boat then set it off causing major damage to a coastal city.
I remember watching something on TV about this scenario. And they’d be no way we’d be able to prove that the Iranians gave it to them because they could always say the terrorists stole it.
You guys make it sound like transporting a nuke is an easy thing. Its not. Its a big, big ordeal to move a nuke from point A to point B and easily detectable on satellite. A terrorist smuggling a nuke into one of our cities or carrying one halfway around the world on a boat LOL? You guys have been watching too many network movies.
BTW, the Iranian president has never threatened us. He has threatened Israel, but as a pointed out before, he doesn’t have any real political power in Iran and he doesn’t control any aspect of their military.
[quote]JeffR wrote:
You guys need to ask some of these dems/anti-americans to explain the PROPER role of appeasment. If we are talking munich, 1937, we would be GIVING Iraq to iran.
[/quote]
Fortunately we secured our future against such a possibility by installing a right wing shia regime in Iraq to act as our bulwark against Iran.
The US and the rest of the first world want to keep the middle east and the Gulf open for the free passage of oil. The US would like to see the people who live there free and able to vote for the type of government they want and who will lead them.
We’d like to buy their oil at free market rates, have them become reliable suppliers and then spend the money they make on goods and services we provide thereby increasing everyone’s wealth and improving living conditions.
The Iranians do not want any of that to happen. They want to control the Middle East and the Gulf. They want to be able to limit the oil supplies and use oil as a weapon to control other countries. They know they cannot stand up to a US attack and want a nuclear weapon to inflict the maximum amount of damage on a US fleet or troop concentration. They also want to be able to provide a nuke to proxies who can use it in Europe or the US, either in reataliation for some percieved slight or as a means to extortion.
The Iranians, based on public statements and policy want to destroy Israel. The Israeli’s would not attack Iran if they were not threatened in public, numerous times by Iran. At this point it’s a matter of time until the Israeli’s strike.
Iran is on a dangerous course. Their intentions are clear and the messages they are sending are making a lot of powerful enemies nervous. If the Soviets made statements like the Iranians are doing now, we probably would have struck them.
Israel is in a no win situation regarding their nukes. If they use them first they will be villified around the world, but will survive. If they use them after they are struck…it will be too late. If you’ve spent anytime in the ME you know they will not wait until it’s too late.
[quote]JeffR wrote:
Cunnivore wrote:
pat36 wrote:
I think the we should not only support the Iranians in their nuclear ambitions. We should fund them. Isn’t that what proper appeasment is all about?
Let’s give them a couple of bombs during their “nuclear celebration”, it could be like the 1812 Overture, but you know - louder.
Source:
http://www.adnki.com/index_2Level_English.php?cat=Politics&loid=8.0.380236179&par=0
Cunnivore/Pat:
You guys need to ask some of these dems/anti-americans to explain the PROPER role of appeasment. If we are talking munich, 1937, we would be GIVING Iraq to iran.
[/quote]
No, I have a better idea!
Why not overthrow a democratic Iranian government, install a dictator of your choice, which is then overthrown by religious fanatics and further alienate those fanatics by arming, funding and generally aiding their enemies!
A few million Iranian dead?
Well, it was all in the name of, um, can`t be democracy, maybe, well, …
You could further mention them as members of the “axis of evil” and pronounce a new “crusade” and then invade their neighbour under false pretenses!
That will teach them not to develop nukes especially after they have witnessed how you treat NK…
Gentlemen, the Iranians are acting completely rational…
[quote]Cunnivore wrote:
OKLAHOMA STATE wrote:
Where did I say “filthy jews” you moron?
I simply said its not worth our boys dying for Israel. We give them enough money/weapons as it is. Let them fight their own battles instead of manipulating us to fight their battles.
I guess you’re right. If Israel happens to get wiped off the face of the earth, it’s no business of ours. Helping them out would just make it worse for the US, what with our “Police of the World” image and all. We might want to stop helping out in Somalia, too. And we might as well not even consider helping out in Darfur, we spend millions in Africa as is.[/quote]
Whoever made that map is an idiot.
To throw Arabs, Persians, Sikhs, Turks, and whatever the Sudanese are all in one pot…
Well, I guess they all are Muslims and talk funny…
[quote]orion wrote:
Gentlemen, the Iranians are acting completely rational… [/quote]
Threatening to nuke Israel and the U.S. is rational?
That sentence of yours illustrates how far from sanity you truly are.
Hard to take you very seriously.
JeffR
[quote]orion wrote:
Cunnivore wrote:
OKLAHOMA STATE wrote:
Where did I say “filthy jews” you moron?
I simply said its not worth our boys dying for Israel. We give them enough money/weapons as it is. Let them fight their own battles instead of manipulating us to fight their battles.
I guess you’re right. If Israel happens to get wiped off the face of the earth, it’s no business of ours. Helping them out would just make it worse for the US, what with our “Police of the World” image and all. We might want to stop helping out in Somalia, too. And we might as well not even consider helping out in Darfur, we spend millions in Africa as is.
Whoever made that map is an idiot.
To throw Arabs, Persians, Sikhs, Turks, and whatever the Sudanese are all in one pot…
Well, I guess they all are Muslims and talk funny…[/quote]
Cunnivore, that map was hilarious!!!
Why don’t you trim it down to the participants in the six day war.
It would be just as funny. You’ll get silence from our resident austrian.
JeffR
[quote]OKLAHOMA STATE wrote:
…
BTW, the Iranian president has never threatened us. He has threatened Israel, but as a pointed out before, he doesn’t have any real political power in Iran and he doesn’t control any aspect of their military.[/quote]
Why do you spread these lies?
[quote]orion wrote:
Whoever made that map is an idiot.
To throw Arabs, Persians, Sikhs, Turks, and whatever the Sudanese are all in one pot…
Well, I guess they all are Muslims and talk funny…[/quote]
Us Mercans think Middle Easterners = Arabs = Muslims. Ignorance is bliss. It makes the “Kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out” mentality so appealing.
Thought this was interesting from this week’s Sports Illustrated on page 19, entitled “Postcard from Persia” (I’m justing posting part of it about the US Wrestling Team traveling to Iran to wrestle their team):
Iranian girls greeted the US Team with flowers at the airport and roughly 3,000 fans crammed into the Fadger Sport Hall- which was built for 2,000- while another 3,000 tried to force their way in.
The tournament was televised live and was front-page news. “They’re wresting fanatics, and they made us feel like kings,” said Rich Bender, USA Wrestling’s executive director. “Never once did we see an anti-American sentiment.” Though Iranian bodygaurds accompanied the squad, the wrestlers wore USA jackets and mingled at a local marketplace, where they signed autographs and traded pins for pistachios. “They treated us like celebrities,” said heavyweight Michael Irving. “We don’t get that in the States.”
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
OKLAHOMA STATE wrote:
…
BTW, the Iranian president has never threatened us. He has threatened Israel, but as a pointed out before, he doesn’t have any real political power in Iran and he doesn’t control any aspect of their military.
Why do you spread these lies?[/quote]
Yep. The guy’s threats are all over the place. Ahmani-jihad thinks he’s the Lord Marshall from the ‘Chronicles of Riddick’ and dreams of sending the Necromongers to kill or convert us.
[quote]JeffR wrote:
orion wrote:
Gentlemen, the Iranians are acting completely rational…
Threatening to nuke Israel and the U.S. is rational?
That sentence of yours illustrates how far from sanity you truly are.
Hard to take you very seriously.
JeffR
[/quote]
Of course it’s rational. We are into appeasment, right. I think we should surrender, dismantle isreal and help Iran setup the great palistinian state with jeruselem as it’s capitol. Then, we’d have peace. We are such idiots for wanting to protect our rights and freedoms. If we would just accomodate and give in to their demands there would be no terror, right?
[quote]pat36 wrote:
JeffR wrote:
orion wrote:
Gentlemen, the Iranians are acting completely rational…
Threatening to nuke Israel and the U.S. is rational?
That sentence of yours illustrates how far from sanity you truly are.
Hard to take you very seriously.
JeffR
Of course it’s rational. We are into appeasment, right. I think we should surrender, dismantle isreal and help Iran setup the great palistinian state with jeruselem as it’s capitol. Then, we’d have peace. We are such idiots for wanting to protect our rights and freedoms. If we would just accomodate and give in to their demands there would be no terror, right?
[/quote]
How did you protect your rights by overthrowing their government and help Hussein kill millions of them?
How does that work in your mind?
If you happen to be one of Bush`s cheerleaders, please also explain to me why you protected your rights at such an enormous cost, if you let Bush take so many of them away after 9-11?
I have two phrases for you:
“Good or bad - My country!”
and
“Whatever happens we have got, the Maxim gun - and they have not.”
Pure unadulterated imperialism instead of all this hypocritical BS…
Boohoo, those bastards killed 3000 people and took down 2 towers which does of course justify bombing the shit out of countries whose inhabitants look roughly the same, but when they get a little cranky after you helped murder a few millions, well, they clearly hate you for your freedom…
Jesus…
[quote]orion wrote:
How did you protect your rights by overthrowing their government and help Hussein kill millions of them?
How does that work in your mind?
If you happen to be one of Bush`s cheerleaders, please also explain to me why you protected your rights at such an enormous cost, if you let Bush take so many of them away after 9-11?
I have two phrases for you:
“Good or bad - My country!”
and
“Whatever happens we have got, the Maxim gun - and they have not.”
Pure unadulterated imperialism instead of all this hypocritical BS…
Boohoo, those bastards killed 3000 people and took down 2 towers which does of course justify bombing the shit out of countries whose inhabitants look roughly the same, but when they get a little cranky after you helped murder a few millions, well, they clearly hate you for your freedom…
Jesus…
[/quote]
Huh? What the hell are you talking about?
He’s talking about how we overthrew the democratic government of Iran in 1953 (via the CIA) and established a dictator there who brutalized thousands and thousands of Iranians during the next 26 years of his rule before he was overthrown.
Why did we overthrow Mossadegh, who was completely pro-Western (did his schooling in England)? Because he had the nerve to nationalize Iran’s oil. I mean oh my God, he wanted Iranians to have control of their own resources. What a bad man!
Then in the 1980s our very own Donald Rumsfield gave Saddam Hussein the very same “weapons of mass destruction” that prompted us into the current bullshit war.
If we hadn’t overthrown Mossadegh in 1953 Iran would still be a democracy and the middle east would be a lot more stable than it is. Our foreign policy is incredibly short-sighted.
You want to talk appeasement? How about Ronald Reagan sending Oliver North to Tehran secretly in 1984 in an effort to reestablish ties only a few years after Iran funded and trained Hezbollah to kill 255 of our Marines in Beirut?
Not that I’d expect you to have any rational knowledge of history though.
[quote]OKLAHOMA STATE wrote:
Why did we overthrow Mossadegh, who was completely pro-Western (did his schooling in England)? Because he had the nerve to nationalize Iran’s oil. I mean oh my God, he wanted Iranians to have control of their own resources. What a bad man!
If we hadn’t overthrown Mossadegh in 1953 Iran would still be a democracy and the middle east would be a lot more stable than it is. Our foreign policy is incredibly short-sighted.
[/quote]
The British developed Iran’s oil fields, then kicked them out, after the Brits had done all the work. What kind of compensation did Iran offer, after someone else did all the work?
You honestly think Iran would be a peaceful democracy today? You then call US irrational?
Wow…
Why don’t we just nuke all these jerkoffs and turn them into craters? Then we wouldn’t have to worry about them developing anything for a long, long time.
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
OKLAHOMA STATE wrote:
Why did we overthrow Mossadegh, who was completely pro-Western (did his schooling in England)? Because he had the nerve to nationalize Iran’s oil. I mean oh my God, he wanted Iranians to have control of their own resources. What a bad man!
If we hadn’t overthrown Mossadegh in 1953 Iran would still be a democracy and the middle east would be a lot more stable than it is. Our foreign policy is incredibly short-sighted.
The British developed Iran’s oil fields, then kicked them out, after the Brits had done all the work. What kind of compensation did Iran offer, after someone else did all the work?
You honestly think Iran would be a peaceful democracy today? You then call US irrational?
Wow…
[/quote]
The more pertinent question is how much of the bounty of the Iranian oil fields did the British share with the Iranians before they got hoofed out,and would this lack of compensation to the Iranians at the time have anything to do with them being told to move swiftly along?
First there is considerable doubt as to Iran being trusted not to make bombs from their program.
Iran was the first country to bomb Iraq’s nuke program because they said they did not trust Iraq and said Iraq would make a bomb. It was later that Israel actually finished off what Iran first started.
If Iran thought doubt as to Iraq’s program was for energy was good enough for them to bomb Iraq then it is good enough for the rest of the world to bomb Iran and eliminate their program.