Interesting Quote by Andy Warhol

[dylan10507]

Interesting posts larry david and tribunal dude.

As far as the first quote it is very true. I very often see people in real life “playing” a part from a movie etc. and trying to live it in real life my mother and sister did this very very often with creating drama and common movie situations that were not there. Also I know dudes whos ideas about women come entirely from movies. They beleive that every dude is “mean” and if they are sensative and passive they will be the one “different” guy and girls will like them. Also beleiefs that girls do not like sex and give it as a gift or reward, that girls do not like guys (i suppose he meant attracted to) only there personality, and girls only ever want relationships. The guys who beleived this stuff were shit with girls and had no experience with them and they had no way to get theses ideas by observing the world around them(which is impossible since if you don’t live under a rock these are obviously wrong) so they take there beliefs from movies. Did they suck with girls get no experience to get there beliefs from and take them from movie experiences or did they have these movie experience beleifs first and that caused all there problems. Who knows?

Another thing is a strong women who does anything a man can do and anyone who doubts her is stupid . In just about every movie there is a woman doing things a man can do that woman cannot. But it never happens in real life but people think it can. Martial Arts for instance I’ve done it for years and you run into women all the time who think they are tough now good for them to be working out. But when you go with them it is ridiculouse the difference like they can train for 10 years and if you are fit even if you are smaller than them you will kill them on your first day and if you don’t go easy enough they will always cry. I say stuff like this and people are like your dumb your sexiest women are just as strong as men etc and they get this belief from movies.

Also same with girls dealing with stressful situations they don’t keep there cool EVER. Now I love girls they have tons of great shit dudes don’t have but there are some good qualites they have and some men have and movies do not paint them as they really are. ( talking action movies with girls shooting bad guys and fighting and stuff).

Also movies a common plot is weak passive loser but is selfless good hearted whatever. Suddenly some random shit happens and everything is good for him and he becomes a tough badass due to situation. I.E. Spider man, Transformers (I refuse to see any sequeals) So I know very many weak passive people who will not overcome even the smallest bit of fear or discomfort who beleive if they “really needed” to they would step up in a situation like a terrorist attack or emergency. Not true you don’t suddenly become super ballsy man when you need to. It’s equivelent to saying I won’t practice bball but I’ll just play in the nba finals I’m sure I’ll step it up since I have to and do well.

To clarify I was refering to spider man/ tranformer fag kid at first won’t fight bullies won’t ask out girl they want won’t risk anything but then a spider/robotcar falls out of the sky and they have power and responsibility and they suddenly since the situation warrants it become willing to risk there lives and are ultra courageouse.

Also movies are very very often acted out when people are in love or think they are in love. You complete me=came from a movie, I love you more than life itself=came from a movie (both terrible unhealthy attitudes) the one that got away attitude=movie dream girl=movie the one=movie Also very many other actions during romance can be influenced.

Yer another movie thing is guy in love with girl when he probably shouldn’t be and he doesn’t even no shit about the girl. His freind is rational and says like chill bro maybe you shouldn’t jump into this. BUT they always portray the freind as some kind of damanged weirdo jerk who hates girls and only wants to fuck them and in the end he is of course wrong. This makes it hard to convince dudes to chill out cuz they think if you don’t marry any girl your into your the movie character there is no in between in many movies.

For example freind of mine “in love” with girl he NEVER has spoken to . I say chill you don’t know what shes like . Reply “no you don’t understand love”. Obviouse crap that came from a moive. (I of course dropped all of these loser freinds with these ridiculouse beliefs)

Larry david real good post. I am not into the hole alpha beta crap but I geuss just means stong vs weak/pussy. Yes rap is popular because it is the only consistently strong/masculine music. However it could just get by on it’s association with that at some times .

I am glad you posted this op I very often think about the difference between what you see in movies vs in real life and how many people do not make the distinction.

[tribunaldude]

Your viewpoint is not really all that different from mine.
You gave a full explanation of the mechanism (possibly) involved in the male-female interaction with media playing the middleman.

I like the semitic media, trust me. There may be a not-so-faint agenda there, but its still a win-win for the viewers. I wouldn’t have any other cultural/racial group controlling the “man” media.

[quote]LarryDavid wrote:

[quote]tribunaldude wrote:
[/quote]

Caution: Long Ass Post Ahead

I agree that to an extent the media [particularly television and film] does have influence on the way people act, and that there is a tendency for the attitudes of men and women are to be limited to certain archetypes, but I dunno about connecting this to the ideas you stated. It’s probably that shit just went this way by itself, not some concentrated group controlling things.

Women are more than men important as far as sales of movie tickets, DVD’s, TV show ratings etc. I imagine they’ll become even more important since girls don’t download shit illegally nearly as much as men. It makes more sense that stuff would be more catered to satisfy their ideals, however unfair/unrealistic/emasculating they may be.

Subversive [and occasionally explicit] “feminist/female empowering” themes find their way into movies this way. I use the quotations since I’m also including the portrayal of men a dumb and needing of a female guiding influence and other such things as part of this. The seemingly unbalanced amount of films and shows where a woman is portrayed as a victim to a man, or being held back by a man is also a result of this. It’s just profitable is all, and yes it is aimed at bottom of the food chain women for the most part, but they’re a larger sector of the female population.

The way men and women act does feed off of this, but they feed off of each other. The more men act accordingly and think it’s okay, the more the audience for movies with this worldview grows, the more profitable movies and shows like that become. So yeah, it gets worse and worse in films and TV, and more and more male protagonists are beta-males or brutes, and the more uneven the balance gets. It sucks, and I am saying that as someone who most likely falls into that beta category himself.

But I keep mentioning television and film as the primary example of this for a reason. The nature of the medium has a lot more to do with this that it would seem. Music [at least youth oriented music] doesn’t have this problem nearly as much as television or film and the solution lies here. I’m pulling out my own bag of theories for this lol. Music, unlike TV or film is cheaper, and takes up less of the consumers’ time per piece of work [ie, a song takes 4 minutes, a show or film much longer]. And songs don’t have to be distributed through rigid means like channels, or movie theatres where only a limited amount of ideas get to be finished products. On the other hand anybody can make a song and release it to the public, and people can consume music anytime and anywhere- especially now. Music is a much more free and open area of media and entertainment than film or TV. So if there’s a difference between music and Film&TV as far as the themes you’ve mentioned, then obviously the nature of the medium [production, distribution, consumption] and the profit motive have more to do with it than any group controlling the ideas of people, since the same people control music, film, television, radio, etc. So let’s get to the music:

I guess I should focus on lyrics and the relevant overall themes there. Ignore genres like pop, r&b, old pop standards and any other vocal music, since for the most part the lyrical aesthetic barely changes and hasn’t for the good 70-80 years it’s existed as a pop medium. Ignore electronic and any instrumental music since the rare lyric is negligible. So the main big genres we’re left with are rock and hip hop.

In my opinion you can see a direct relation to the fall of the Alpha Male in rock music and the rise of hip hop [via gangsta rap] as the big genre of choice of the youth. Now of course, other factors play into this, technology, demographics in particular, but if we are to focus on what lyrical aspects led hip hop to supersede rock as the avante-garde culturally responsive pop genre of choice for the youth.

Rock fans on the whole get sort of sick of the exaggerated Alpha Male charactersitics of a lot of stadium rock, hair metal and alternative rock breaks through [via grunge] into the mainstream. Although it’s strength is overstated today in most pop music hoopla, the reaction is pretty strong. Alternative rock figureheads like Kurt Cobain mock the Alpha Male and youth oriented rock shifts that way on the whole too. At around the same time [late 80s to early 90s] gangsta rap becomes the dominant hip hop subgenre, and throughout the 90s and 00s hip hop slowly subsumes the bests traits of and then outright replaces rock. The early 90s weren’t just alternative rock, it was also Dr. Dre and Snoop Dogg :).

I don’t think the early gangsta rap and hip hop characters of the 90s really define Alpha Male, and I think the overly aggressive early gangsta rappers were an exaggerated reaction to what was happening in rock [as well as inner city conditions of course], but you start to see well rounded alpha males in different forms all over hip hop by the end of the 90s. Jay-Z on the Blueprint [2001] would be a good example of what I’m talking about. Hip hop is rife with these kind of Alpha Male persona’s. Just think of the recurrent drug dealer turned rapper-CEO narrative in hip hop.

So yeah, music doesn’t really follow the thematic trends of film and TV with regards to what we’re talking about here. And since they have the same people at the head of things, it would seem to me that the idea of a group of people controlling the ideas for a purpose wouldn’t fit. I know there are a few flaws and things I left out in my argument, especially near the end to simplify things, but they don’t really do anything to my overall position and I can expand on them later since this post is too long already and my back and ass are sweaty [pause].

I have a good feeling I’m arguing on a different plane than you are. I suppose I could ask why would they possible want to control things this way other than to secure profit? But as it is I see this as nothing other than profit and the how the medium is produced, distributed and consumed and nothing else. To sum it up, shit just happened.

And I’m not touching that Semitic part lol. I don’t know what that means to be honest, unless you are talking about all the holocaust movies, and even then that’s all I could think of.

[/quote]

[ridethecliche]

Warhol was making an interesting comment alright.

Think of his artform, aka ‘pop art’.

What are movies?
An artform for the masses.

I can dig it.