hey everybody,
if it seems like all the food that has 1:1 protein-to-carb ratio has a high II (milk, all-bran, etc) so what kind of ratio do we need at P+C meals (if we don’t really want a hugh insulin responses - say in the morning)? 2:1 carb-to-protein or 2:1 protein-to-carb? and also, if milk is a high II carb, why don’t we use it in our post-workout shake? and, why don’t we use a 1:1 protein-to-carb ratio right after the workout, when we need this hugh insulin?
thanks,
F&F
All-bran has a super low II.
I honestly don’t know what you’re talking about.
Milk is not a 1:1 ratio of protein to carbs.
All-bran definately isn’t.
There are other factors affecting insulin index independent of the ratio of protein to carbs. Different types of carbs will have different types of insulin responses.
There is already a proper post workout shake, its called Surge. Its definately not a 1:1 ratio of protein to carbs.
You have to remember that protein also has an effect on insulin.
Hey there…
The ratio is probably going to be based on your current goals and your eating patterns. If you are only having a few P+C meals a day post-workout, you are going to want to load up on them. Otherwise, if you are going for muscle maintenance/maintenance in general, you might want to spread them out. If you are going for massive muscle gains you might want to increase them. As far as the proper ratios, I would think 3-1, 4-1 would generally be good for a few P+C meals a day (this is based on T-Dawgish dieting). I’m not sure if there is some “golden rule”. I am pretty sure it would depend on your goals and your current eating patterns.
Today is cheat day (and Super Bowl day) so I figure I’ll get about a whatever to whatever ratio of pizza and beer.
Good luck!
Brian, Berardi talked about all-bran before.try to search here some articles with the keyword: “All-Bran”.
he mentioned a study (Am J Clin Nutr. 2003 Oct;78(4):742-8.) that said the insulin responses of the All-Bran was higher and worse than Corn-Flax. in other words, check this out:
anyway, milk and yogurt definitely have 1:1 ratio of protein-to-carb. (something like 5 grams of protein -and- 5 grams of carbs for 100 m"l)
and also the all-bran is high in fiber but lower in carbs, and it has a high protein contect (not a good protein source, but has something like 1:1 protein-to-carb ratio).
so the combination of carbs and protein at the same time is also has a big impact on promoting insulin (although the GI of those foods is very low).
so what kind of protein to carb ratio do we need when we’re dieting? i’m not talking about the post-workout shake/drink or the first post-workout meal. I’m talking about breakfast or the second post-workout meal, or just a “regular” carb meal (+protein, of course) on non-workout days (i’ve got 2 of those). how can we get our carbs and protein at the same time without this big insulin release? add more carbs/reduce the pro contect on P+C meals or more pro/less carb?
thanks,
F&F
Just a clarification here, as we’ve had this discussion before.
The II of All Bran is indeed extremely low, as measured by the total area under the entire insulin curve, until levels return to baseline.
However, as I understand it, in the study you cite, the absolute peak of the All Bran-induced insulin spike was higher.
also, if milk is a high II carb, why don’t we use it in our post-workout shake?
milk does have a high II, but it has a low GI so the carbs would take a longer than ideal time to be absorbed PWO.
Wow, you need to work on your communication skills.
I think you are trying to make your question way too complicated. I you don’t want a high insulin response, how about you eat foods with a low insulin index. And if you do want an insulin response, eat foods with a high insulin index.
This is why one would eat oats in the morning, but would eat cereal postworkout.
The reason why you don’t consume milk after a workout is because the casein in milk takes way too long to absorb. With post workout nutrition, you want something that will absorb ASAP, like whey.
And yes, a 1:1 ratio WOULD be good post workout. To take it a step further, I personally go as high as 2:1 ratio of carbs to protein. I ingest 100g of simple carbs with 50g of whey protein. The simple carbs create a high insulin response, and post workout is the most anabolic time of the day. This is where most bodybuilders, including myself, inject our insulin. On none workout days, I inject first thing in the morning (for bulking purposes).
Oh, and another thing. I wouldn’t worry too much about ratios. Worry more about the TYPE of carbs you are eating. This is the main reason why we are told to choose complex carb (ie, oatmeal, yams) over simple carbs (ie, sugars).
Fast&furious, you are mistaken. All-bran has a low II, one of the lowest. Read the II study and you’ll see. Berardi is suggesting that a possible reason for All-Bran’s low II is that when you eat it, the body QUICKLY releases a lot of insulin, causing the carbs to be removed from the blood right away, THEN the body releases a VERY SMALL amount of insulin to handle the remaining carbs. The sum of these two phase TOTALS a very small insulin release for All-Bran. Corn flakes on the other hand releases a little insulin at first, then a lot later, leading to a TOTAL large insulin release. Berardi has clarified himself on this point, and this issue has actually already been discussed on the forum.
Milk may not be ideal post-workout because it has slow-releasing proteins and carbohydrates, and casein MAY form a gel in the stomach which slows the release of other aminos.