I aromatize a shit ton, and AI makes me sick, so in order to keep my E2 down and raise T levels, he wants to try nandrolone to substitute some of the test. Nandrolone converts much less into estradiol. That means I can get higher T levels than I can with T alone. Also the anabolic benefits will be nice.
What qualifies as a shit ton? I was pretty high (relatively speaking) when I started trt, so I’m curious how bad others get it. Are you getting all the nasty sides of high e2? I lucked out and didn’t have much of an issue outside of being more emotional.
At 100mg a week, my E2 was at 40, which doesn’t sound bad, but you have to take my lower SHBG into account. My doc wants my E2 to be closer to 20. When I went to 150mg a week, my E2 went to 84…im relation to my TT and FT it looked okay, but again, having low SHBG meant alot more of that was free. Acne got worse, mood swings, depression, weight gain, excessive tiredness. I had it before at 100mg but it got much worse on 150mg
Your doctor is a moron.
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Yeah, sounds like 150mg is way too high for you. That’s wild. I’d say that qualifies as a shit ton. The highest mine got was 43 (while on trt; blasting is a different story altogether), which was exactly the same as 33 and 22 as far as I could notice. My SHBG rarely gets higher than 15. Usually stays in the 9-15 range, irrespective of whether or not I’m at peak or trough.
I don’t have experience with it, but I’m about to. Just got my new protocol from my doc today and it includes Nandrolone Phenylpropionate (NPP) and some other stuff. I’ll be posting the full protocol in my TRT log as soon as all the gear comes in the mail this week. Assistant on the phone was not able to tell me all the dosing and intervals. Said to check the scripts when they arrive. Be sure to watch my log. Like most, the only reason I started the log was to give back to the guys on this forum.
Can you clarify your original post for us? Is your doc proposing a complete replacement of T in your TRT protocol with either DECA ot NPP (i.e., some form of nandrolone), or is he proposing cutting back on the T dose (say to 100 mg/week) and adding in some nadrolone to replace the lost anabolic affects of the reduced T?
The plan is to lower my T dose, and replace it with nandrolone. The goal is to increase my T level without my rasing e2. I’m going from 84mg a week of must Test, to 70mg of test and 70mg of nandrolone. Also hoping it helps me lose some weight and build some muscle.
My doc prescribed a compounded deca/test mix. 60 mg deca and 140 mg Test Cyp per mg. .5 mg twice a week. I had some nagging shoulder joint issues and after 5 weeks it is gone. I have no e2 issues and no problems with ed. I wouldn’t take deca alone without test. If you’re on a reasonable dose of test you most likely won’t have e2 issues. You’ll only know by blood tests.
Thanks for clarifying. I expect that this will lower your T and that will lower your E2. Your HPTA is probably already fully suppressed with your TRT. Even dropping it down to 70mg of T-cyp per week, you will probably not get any natural production. Nadrolone is also suppressive of T production, so adding it in will further suppress the HPTA.
However, nadrolone can replace the lost anabolic action of the decreased T. In fact, it will probably enhance the overall anabolic effect because it has about 10X more ababolic activity than T. Finding the minimum effective dose of T to abate symptoms and balancing the lost anabolic effect with nadrolone will be the tricky part.
How often and how much were you guys injecting a week? I was injecting 90mg of deca split into 4 shots per week. Along with 180mg of test split into 4 shots per week. I would draw the test first and then draw the Nandrolone next into the same needle.
GOLD:
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Also, there are tons studies comparing testosterone to nandrolone use due to sides and nandrolone performs better in every area of sides with stated better quality of life.
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Im on NPP only now, several weeks in. My libido is fucking insane, its 100% back and better than ever before, even in my teens.
I tested every TRT protocol out there, NOTHING worked, nothing.
I got recommended deca/npp only by a well known body building coach and doctor who has used it with his clients, he also showed me numerous studies on deca only being way better than testosterone in terms of libido, prolactin (decrease), well being, muscle mass, side-effects.
I was sceptcal, super sceptical, but I decided to give it a go.
Best thing ive ever done in my life when it comes to HRT, FINALLY I Feel super high libido, no ED, ZERO bloat, ZERO acne, ZERO hair loss, zero nothing, its super super good.
The reason people have problems on deca is cause of the mix with testosterone, when you combine it with testosterone, all sorts of hormones go crazy, do not do that, I repeat, do NOT combine it with testosterone.
Run it alone, and you will be in for a ride, especially if your body just dont tolerate alot of estrogen, which mine dont.
Also, NPP/deca decrease prolactin (by itself, in studies), testosterone some times double it, in studies.
Hugely recommend.
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How much are you taking a week? Also is that something you can do for life? I’ll be on TRT for life so I need something that won’t hurt me long-term.
How many weeks in and at what dose?
I’m not changing anything for 8 weeks, but after labs if they look good and I’m not having any negative effects from deca, I’m gonna ask my doc if we can go up on the nandrolone. I’m taking 70mg now which isn’t even a therapeutic dose in men.
If you can do it on life? Well, there are studies on hiv patients being on for decades, so far.
There are also heart studies on humans, showing no harm (but harm were shown in rats).
Google around about it, very interesting indeed, Im still educating myself about it too.
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Im doing 300mg, I got advice from Taeian, a bodybuilder coach.
Some of his clients are on 4g of fucking deca (only), with zero side effects, cause the side effects are mainly from the aromatization to estrogen and dht, according to him. The old school bodybuilders, arnold etc, never ran testosterone, they considered it a dirty hormone, thats why almost every body builder on that time had great skin, hair and didnt fall off with heart attacks every so often.
Deca aromatise only 20% of testosterone, so if u want more aromatisation, u need to run a higher dosage (but with great anabolic effects, ofcourse). Its great for people like me who just cannot tolerate high estrogen and need to use AI with testosterone (Which I dont like).
In this interview, he is talking about it too, did u know that there are studies on aids patients who they have threated with deca only (as hrt) for decades? With better subjective results than with testosterone?
[SHR # 2452 :: Can A Nandrolone-Only Protocol Work For Gains & HRT?]
https://superhumanradio.net/components/com_podcast/media/mp3s/SHR_Show_2452.mp3)
Again, it seems like the huge side effects from deca (bloat, libido issues, prolactin spike) is when you combine with with a heavy aromatising compound like testosterone, without it, no issues.
Im a couple weeks in on NPP (fast acting deca), Ive never had this libido in my life and my skin is GREAT, zero bloat, nothing.
And I had ED issues for years on testosterone, i tried every damn fucking protocol in the book, nothing worked.
Did you also know that in studies, trt often increase prolactin (huge risk of fucking up libido if prolactin already high naturally), whereas deca in many studies even decrease prolactin?
Still trying it out, but as of right now, its fucking great, im a couple weeks in and I felt the effects very quickly. FINALLY I have great arousal and stone hard boners again, it has been years!
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