Indigo-3G Observers Thread

How the fuck is 300g of carbs making most people fat.

Total calorie # is.

Clean vs unclean carbs shouldnt even be talked about here, unless the “unclean carbs” also contains shitty fats (read pizza and fries) than yeah no shit this will make you fat. Not because of the carbs but because total calories will be over maintenance

This whole argument is fucking stupid.

Drink 10 cans of 300ml soda per day. with nothing else.

I guarantee you wont gain any fat, even if the carb source is not “clean”

Wtf is this shit

Actually you know what ? Let me rephrase.

I guarantee you wont get fat. You will lose fat. And muscle too yes

hope no one is thinking im saying this would be a great fat loss/muscle retention diet.

[quote]jolopez wrote:

[quote]MileHighSal wrote:
Did I miss something but wasn’t Shelby supposed to train 20 people? Did he quit or something? [/quote]

I had the same question. Had not heard from him on this site on a while. I know from his facebook page that he still promotes that he uses Biotest products. Within the last few days he mentioned FINiBARs and low carb Metabolic Drive.[/quote]

spoke to him on facebook, he said he’s only doing articles from now on, next one will be on cardio

[quote]Melkor1 wrote:

[quote]jolopez wrote:

[quote]MileHighSal wrote:
Did I miss something but wasn’t Shelby supposed to train 20 people? Did he quit or something? [/quote]

I had the same question. Had not heard from him on this site on a while. I know from his facebook page that he still promotes that he uses Biotest products. Within the last few days he mentioned FINiBARs and low carb Metabolic Drive.[/quote]

spoke to him on facebook, he said he’s only doing articles from now on, next one will be on cardio[/quote]

fuck… i really liked his live spills. him and meadows are the best additions the site has made in a loooooooong time

EDIT: sorry off topic

is there like a poor man’s protocol for this?

i cant afford I3G, MAG-10, Swf Anaconda etc but if stretching 1 bottle into a 12 weeker would have good results i may give it a try…

[quote]MAF14 wrote:
is there like a poor man’s protocol for this?

i cant afford I3G, MAG-10, Swf Anaconda etc but if stretching 1 bottle into a 12 weeker would have good results i may give it a try…[/quote]

I have not been using any of those supplements because I have no money for them. I use a large whole food meal before for most of my nutrients and then a homemade shake of ground up oatmeal and eggwhite and cinnamon and splenda for a workout shake. I have been seeing good results so far. Cals increased. Carbs increased. Lost a bit of weight. Look tighter and larger. So i would say you can def. get results. They may not be “optimal” but they will still be damn good.

I hear “people” talking about how great this stuff is and there seems to be some common work capacity improvements from it, but visually I haven’t seen anything that makes me want to shell out half a K. Most of what I have seen in the logs is people who started eating better and probably lifting harder when they got CT’s program, but nothing that seems better than the results they could’ve gotten regardless.

I am not bashing it. I have not been through all the logs - there are too many. I WANT this stuff to be worth it, so I am asking, can someone point me in the direction of a log with some before and now pictures that are better than coud be expected with proper diet and training?

I don’t want to hear about eating more carbs and getting similar results. I don’t care about eating or not eating anything in particular. For near $600 it should be about time to see something impressive. So, to which logs should I look?

Zraw or stronghold: I would love an answer on this and Im not picking a fight Im honestly curious and want to keep this intellectual.

Youre claiming calories are the overall precursor for weight gain not carb sources not insulin.

If the carbs are coming from good sources, then there should not be any problem with fat gain. (Its not actually about weight gain but fat gain, this is what some people get confused when arguing cals vs carbs.)

So lets say it IS about cals, always has been, total calories consume vs. expended.

Most people on the Indigo-3G Project have completely upped their cal intake and possibly their cal out put. At the same time though, they have dramatically upped their carb intake (theres no carb output though).

But, and here is where I am confused regarding this debate, Indigo-3G isnt a caloric nutrient repartion-er its a carb repartion-er. Their overall cals may have increased but most of them are coming from carb sources. As the article even says “Research has proven that C3G has a powerful effect on insulin signaling and glucose management.”

Its known that Insulin is a powerful muscle growth promoter. There is nothing in a calorie that promotes muscle gain, correct? (Im seriously asking) If that were true, that calories promote muscle gain, I could go on a low protein, low carb, high fat diet and gain muscle because the calorie is causing the growth.

But thats not what this product does, it uses insulin to promote the growth. Its a “glucose management” product. Most of the team members were having problems with weight gain from carb sources not over all cal, right? A switch has been flipped now where they can intake higher amounts of carbs, with little or no change in cals and lose weight and gain muscle because the Indigo-3G directs insulin signaling.

So how is it all about the cals?

“It’s the fat cell that sends all of the molecular signals for glucose and nutrient uptake in both fat and lean tissue. This is especially important because it’s the nutrient uptake that has the most impact (not androgens) on gaining muscle.” --its not the cals its calling for its the glucose?

“Unfortunately, insulin is anabolic in both muscle and fat. But by decreasing the effects of insulin on fat and increasing the effects of insulin on muscle, you can achieve what no one thought was possible and turn the common man into a bodybuilding genetic freak.” --by this statement alone it would be concluded that insulin is the culprit and cause of weight and muscle gain or lose. Because its not the cal from protein or fat causing the problem its the glucose and insulin release from the carb source. In this quote it says that its the + or - in insulin that effects in increase/decrease in muscle or fat.

Inflammation isnt caused by +/- or overall cals its caused by insulin.

Even the rules for I3G say to ignore cals - the focus is on carbs.

Am I reading this right?
Thank you for any response

[quote]hipsr4runnin wrote:
Zraw or stronghold: I would love an answer on this and Im not picking a fight Im honestly curious and want to keep this intellectual.

Youre claiming calories are the overall precursor for weight gain not carb sources not insulin.

If the carbs are coming from good sources, then there should not be any problem with fat gain. (Its not actually about weight gain but fat gain, this is what some people get confused when arguing cals vs carbs.)

So lets say it IS about cals, always has been, total calories consume vs. expended.

Most people on the Indigo-3G Project have completely upped their cal intake and possibly their cal out put. At the same time though, they have dramatically upped their carb intake (theres no carb output though).

But, and here is where I am confused regarding this debate, Indigo-3G isnt a caloric nutrient repartion-er its a carb repartion-er. Their overall cals may have increased but most of them are coming from carb sources. As the article even says “Research has proven that C3G has a powerful effect on insulin signaling and glucose management.”

Its known that Insulin is a powerful muscle growth promoter. There is nothing in a calorie that promotes muscle gain, correct? (Im seriously asking) If that were true, that calories promote muscle gain, I could go on a low protein, low carb, high fat diet and gain muscle because the calorie is causing the growth.

But thats not what this product does, it uses insulin to promote the growth. Its a “glucose management” product. Most of the team members were having problems with weight gain from carb sources not over all cal, right? A switch has been flipped now where they can intake higher amounts of carbs, with little or no change in cals and lose weight and gain muscle because the Indigo-3G directs insulin signaling.

So how is it all about the cals?

“It’s the fat cell that sends all of the molecular signals for glucose and nutrient uptake in both fat and lean tissue. This is especially important because it’s the nutrient uptake that has the most impact (not androgens) on gaining muscle.” --its not the cals its calling for its the glucose?

“Unfortunately, insulin is anabolic in both muscle and fat. But by decreasing the effects of insulin on fat and increasing the effects of insulin on muscle, you can achieve what no one thought was possible and turn the common man into a bodybuilding genetic freak.” --by this statement alone it would be concluded that insulin is the culprit and cause of weight and muscle gain or lose. Because its not the cal from protein or fat causing the problem its the glucose and insulin release from the carb source. In this quote it says that its the + or - in insulin that effects in increase/decrease in muscle or fat.

Inflammation isnt caused by +/- or overall cals its caused by insulin.

Even the rules for I3G say to ignore cals - the focus is on carbs.

Am I reading this right?
Thank you for any response[/quote]

Please refer to the thread “carb source doesnt matter” for infos on this. There is also a link to an article in the later pages

It should cover all questions.

Ppl that were fat because of “carbs”… my guess ? They had a shitty diet with more calories than they tought.

I also think these ppl eating habits changed when starting Indigo-3G.

If indeed they didnt change their cal # and didnt change their carbs # at the start and started to notice fatloss well this just mean the product really does work…

Lets just pretend before Indigo-3G someone had an excess of 500 calories… and than started Indigo-3G… supposedly Indigo-3G would send these 500 “excess” calories in the muscle cells instead of fat cells… right? Bye bye the extra 500 calories

Anyways, go read the thread, its not anectodal stuff its tried stuff (about the carb source and all)

Thanks for the response. I was following that thread before. It made possible sense from a fat loss perspective but not from a health perspective. I even tried it and unfortunately it did not work for me, though I will admit for the sake of honesty, that could have been caused by other factors.

What I noticed with most of the “team” was a definite shitty diet and a very false idea of their current standings. Most were on, in some fashion, a low carb diet because of being self labled FBB’s. What changed was an increase in both carbs (more bad than good kinds) and over all cals. This alters the theories stated in both threads. I see both sides of the coin being true though to a degree, depending usually on circumstance and situation.

[quote]MileHighSal wrote:
Did I miss something but wasn’t Shelby supposed to train 20 people? Did he quit or something? [/quote]

actually, an interesting experiment would have been to randomly give Shelby 20 people without indigo and compare results with the indigo crowd to see if just smart dieting alone can achieve similar results.

following a combination of Shelby’s and others advice, i have lost about 20 lbs from my previous average carrying weight (25 from peak) and saved about 300 dollars.

[quote]zraw wrote:

[quote]hipsr4runnin wrote:

Lets just pretend before Indigo-3G someone had an excess of 500 calories… and than started Indigo-3G… supposedly Indigo-3G would send these 500 “excess” calories in the muscle cells instead of fat cells… right? Bye bye the extra 500 calories

[/quote]

I have not had a biology/physiology class in many years. but carbs and fat do not turn to muscle, do they? i thought only protein would “build” muscle. so what would happen with the extra calories in the muscle? the muscles can only store so much.

Is it just there for a more readily available source of energy? Would would happen if the group was do doing a redicuolous amount of work to burn off the calories? Does your body temp just go up to burn more carbs?

i am not sure how Indigo really works yet.

[quote]privatemedical wrote:

[quote]MileHighSal wrote:
Did I miss something but wasn’t Shelby supposed to train 20 people? Did he quit or something? [/quote]

actually, an interesting experiment would have been to randomly give Shelby 20 people without indigo and compare results with the indigo crowd to see if just smart dieting alone can achieve similar results.

following a combination of Shelby’s and others advice, i have lost about 20 lbs from my previous average carrying weight (25 from peak) and saved about 300 dollars. [/quote]

Lol what kind of marketing strategy is that to say “Hey we have this product that can get you crazy lean, but its nothing you can’t do on your own with a proper diet”?

Just an observation, where did PX’s Indigo group 2 log go?

It seems mods have been doing some housecleaning, fixing up posts and thread titles. I was just wondering if this was overlooked or if PX decided to stop keeping a log…?

Edit: nevermind, didn’t realize there were multiple pages of logs…

[quote]Test Icicle wrote:
Just an observation, where did PX’s Indigo group 2 log go?

It seems mods have been doing some housecleaning, fixing up posts and thread titles. I was just wondering if this was overlooked or if PX decided to stop keeping a log…?

Edit: nevermind, didn’t realize there were multiple pages of logs…[/quote]

It’s still there. I haven’t put much into it because I am not sure what you guys want.

I don’t usually keep logs of weight used or anything like that. I have had way too many arguments here about some weight I use and how I have to prove it for it to be true…since 2001.

If you want more info, just ask.

[quote]privatemedical wrote:

[quote]zraw wrote:

[quote]hipsr4runnin wrote:

Lets just pretend before Indigo-3G someone had an excess of 500 calories… and than started Indigo-3G… supposedly Indigo-3G would send these 500 “excess” calories in the muscle cells instead of fat cells… right? Bye bye the extra 500 calories

[/quote]

I have not had a biology/physiology class in many years. but carbs and fat do not turn to muscle, do they? i thought only protein would “build” muscle. so what would happen with the extra calories in the muscle? the muscles can only store so much.

Is it just there for a more readily available source of energy? Would would happen if the group was do doing a redicuolous amount of work to burn off the calories? Does your body temp just go up to burn more carbs?

i am not sure how Indigo really works yet.
[/quote]

The body can store well north of 600g of glycogen. Fats and carbs are protein sparing. Indigo doesn’t somehow negate the laws of thermodynamics. If it does what they’re saying it does, it simply rearranges the variables that add up in the storage part of the “out” side of the equation to facilitate a greater storage of lean tissue vs. fat tissue (an effect better known as "partitioning).

[quote] Stronghold wrote:
The body can store well north of 600g of glycogen. Fats and carbs are protein sparing. Indigo doesn’t somehow negate the laws of thermodynamics. If it does what they’re saying it does, it simply rearranges the variables that add up in the storage part of the “out” side of the equation to facilitate a greater storage of lean tissue vs. fat tissue (an effect better known as "partitioning).
[/quote]

It is my understanding that the lower body fat percent you are, the better you “partition nutrients”.
If this is true, it seems that this supplement is worth the most to people who are:

  1. Extremely obese with hormonal problems and need to lose fat
  2. People near their genetic limit of building muscle while staying lean (like Stu or X may be).
  3. People who are > 15% body fat who may not want to cut first before trying to put on muscle.

So… you can get C3G a hell of a lot cheaper than $500 for a 6 week supply. What am I missing here?

[quote]ashylarryku wrote:

[quote]privatemedical wrote:

[quote]MileHighSal wrote:
Did I miss something but wasn’t Shelby supposed to train 20 people? Did he quit or something? [/quote]

actually, an interesting experiment would have been to randomly give Shelby 20 people without indigo and compare results with the indigo crowd to see if just smart dieting alone can achieve similar results.

following a combination of Shelby’s and others advice, i have lost about 20 lbs from my previous average carrying weight (25 from peak) and saved about 300 dollars. [/quote]

Lol what kind of marketing strategy is that to say “Hey we have this product that can get you crazy lean, but its nothing you can’t do on your own with a proper diet”?[/quote]

if it can beat a good diet, than its a billion dollar supplement. if not, well…