Indigo-3G Observers Thread

Nutrition
201

[quote]sniper1 wrote:
This thread has gotten WAY off topic! I propose we start a new one, where it is only what the topic states. A thread where people can post their progress on Indigo, without logging all their workouts and diets and so on. When I follow the logs, which I do, it is so hard to decipher the actual info I want, which is how much weight have you gained, how much fat, in inches have you lost, muscle gained, all the pertinent info.[/quote]

I think that’s the point. Unless that person has been a serious regular trainer, it will skew any results mentioned even more.

Many of these people don’t seem to have experienced beginner’s gains yet, let alone be at a place to judge a specific supplement on its own outside of the context of what their new training, diet and overall schedule has mostly become.

In other words, if your goal is to see how good this supplement performs alone on someone, your best bet is to follow the people who were already making big progress without it…not the people who just started training seriously BECAUSE they started taking it.

That is one of the reasons people keep mentioning progress. It is NOT to put people down. It is to be real about what is going on.

You don’t blame Indigo is someone suddenly starts working out several times a week and loses some body fat.

202

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]sniper1 wrote:
This thread has gotten WAY off topic! I propose we start a new one, where it is only what the topic states. A thread where people can post their progress on Indigo, without logging all their workouts and diets and so on. When I follow the logs, which I do, it is so hard to decipher the actual info I want, which is how much weight have you gained, how much fat, in inches have you lost, muscle gained, all the pertinent info.[/quote]

I think that’s the point. Unless that person has been a serious regular trainer, it will skew any results mentioned even more.

Many of these people don’t seem to have experienced beginner’s gains yet, let alone be at a place to judge a specific supplement on its own outside of the context of what their new training, diet and overall schedule has mostly become.

In other words, if your goal is to see how good this supplement performs alone on someone, your best bet is to follow the people who were already making big progress without it…not the people who just started training seriously BECAUSE they started taking it.

That is one of the reasons people keep mentioning progress. It is NOT to put people down. It is to be real about what is going on.

You don’t blame Indigo is someone suddenly starts working out several times a week and loses some body fat.[/quote]

you are 100% correct. nothing against anyone taking Indigo but i really only look through a couple select logs: stu, paragon, thoughts etc…

203

[quote]Professor X wrote:
In other words, if your goal is to see how good this supplement performs alone on someone, your best bet is to follow the people who were already making big progress without it…not the people who just started training seriously BECAUSE they started taking it.
[/quote]

^This just about says it all. BUT you can’t give someone sh-t just because they may not be considered ‘advanced’ yet still choose to invest their money in a supplement they feel will help them. If they make gains with the introduction of I3G, whether it was truly necessary or it simply provided more of a motivational ass kicking, I guarantee you most people in that situation would be content no matter what others think.

S

204

What would be cool would be to have a kind of “photoshop” thingy with Indigo-3G users before/after pictures one beside the other…

Would make it way more easy to “compare” and look at the results than going thru 84 logs and try and find the pics and stuff…

But… im too lazy to do that, maybe someone has time to spare? :smiley:

205

Just the fact that Professor X is keeping a log makes Indigo-3G a success. :slight_smile:

Looking huge X! Awesome!

206

Did I miss something but wasn’t Shelby supposed to train 20 people? Did he quit or something?

207

Perhaps somebody has some insight on my observation so far. From what I can tell (with the exception of the few elite trainees here) we have a giant mass of protocol users who were typically afraid of carbs and eating anywhere from 50-150g per day. Now they are bumping that up to 300-400/day and having much more energy in the gym and a higher capacity for work.

My first thought about this is, “well…duh.” You don’t need I3G to see this effect. To the outside observer this could resemble a giant placebo effect.

208

True. I think people on this web site are afraid of carbs. Shugart doesn’t help matters much with this. No one’s getting fat off 300 grams of carbs if they’re eating below maintenance or training on a regular basis.

209

[quote]jskrabac wrote:
Perhaps somebody has some insight on my observation so far. From what I can tell (with the exception of the few elite trainees here) we have a giant mass of protocol users who were typically afraid of carbs and eating anywhere from 50-150g per day. Now they are bumping that up to 300-400/day and having much more energy in the gym and a higher capacity for work.

My first thought about this is, “well…duh.” You don’t need I3G to see this effect. To the outside observer this could resemble a giant placebo effect. [/quote]

Can’t speak for the others, but:

  1. My energy in the gym started increasing after I started taking Indigo but BEFORE I bumped up the carbs. Sure, bumping up the carbs increased my energy even more, but the effect was there earlier too.

  2. I can’t remember the exact numbers off the top of my head (they’re in my log), but my weekly carb intake pre-Indigo was something like 250/300/200/250/300/200/130. Now it’s starting to resemble 450/480/350/450/480/300/160 or so, although the next week or two will show whether I can keep them this high.

210

[quote]ds1973 wrote:
No one’s getting fat off 300 grams of carbs if they’re eating below maintenance or training on a regular basis.[/quote]

Proven lie. Are YOU skinny, healthy, and strong eating that way? Good for YOU.

300 g carb per day absolutely makes MOST people fat, even if they follow a progressive weight lifting program, do some walking, get enough sleep, and limit calories. Just like on the “carbs in the evening” thread, you are denying/ignoring that MOST people’s bodies have different HORMONAL responses to different macros.

This is EXACTLY what Indigo ALLEGEDLY does, it makes it possible to get enough carbs to add muscle w/o gaining fat; I am on team 2, haven’t got a verdict yet, but many on team 1 are reporting increasing carbs, gaining muscle, AND LOWERING CIRCUMFERENCE AT WAISTLINE - a combination they had previously not been able to do. So I hope I will get similar results.

211

[quote]SuperFast wrote:

[quote]ds1973 wrote:
No one’s getting fat off 300 grams of carbs if they’re eating below maintenance or training on a regular basis.[/quote]

Proven lie. Are YOU skinny, healthy, and strong eating that way? Good for YOU.

300 g carb per day absolutely makes MOST people fat, even if they follow a progressive weight lifting program, do some walking, get enough sleep, and limit calories. Just like on the “carbs in the evening” thread, you are denying/ignoring that MOST people’s bodies have different HORMONAL responses to different macros.

This is EXACTLY what Indigo ALLEGEDLY does, it makes it possible to get enough carbs to add muscle w/o gaining fat; I am on team 2, haven’t got a verdict yet, but many on team 1 are reporting increasing carbs, gaining muscle, AND LOWERING CIRCUMFERENCE AT WAISTLINE - a combination they had previously not been able to do. So I hope I will get similar results.[/quote]

No, I disagree with your statement. 300 grams of carbs in NOT alot of carbs. And no, it won’t make MOST people fat, especially if they follow a legitimate weight training program.

I don’t know how all of a sudden we are thinking EVERYONE is a FFB on this site…and forgetting that there are almost just as many ectomorphic people out there who had better start eating 300 grams of carbs + 300 grams of protein with their intense training.

With I-3G especially, ectomorphs had better start eating ALOT more calories period.

212

[quote]jskrabac wrote:
Perhaps somebody has some insight on my observation so far. From what I can tell (with the exception of the few elite trainees here) we have a giant mass of protocol users who were typically afraid of carbs and eating anywhere from 50-150g per day. Now they are bumping that up to 300-400/day and having much more energy in the gym and a higher capacity for work.

My first thought about this is, “well…duh.” You don’t need I3G to see this effect. To the outside observer this could resemble a giant placebo effect. [/quote]

I’m using I3G right now (Day #10), and I asked myself the same question.

Of course, doing the workout with 100g of carbs, instead of 0g carbs like before for me, I will definitely have more energy. I did two more wide-grip pull up every set last monday, and two more decline bench press rep every set last wednesday. Does only adding carbs can have this effect ? I have not the experience to answer, as I usually always do my workouts without any carbs.

However what I know, is that before when eating 3 carb meals a day, I could start gaining muscles but a lot of fat too. That was mainly on starches, mainly pasta. Eating 300g carbs a day was common, but I couldn’t get lean.

For many months, I stopped eating carbs after lunch (except the week end), and although muscle gain were very slow, strenght too, at least fat loss was steady over time.

I think I3G is challenged with me, I’m back again to 3 carbs meal a day, 200g carbs a day or more. If it works, I’ll see it because I will lose fat and get leaner (the gain of muscle, if any, could be from more calories and carbs). That won’t be placebo, facts will be facts.

I’ll keep my log updated with photo, but not every day or week… I guess a photo every 15 days will be fine.

I trully understand the skepticism. I don’t think I’m in the placebo kind of guy. I didn’t felt anything different taking Alpha-GPC for instance, although I’m still taking it for the GH effect (if any).

I’m still anyway confident in the results, and excited to try I3G :slight_smile:

Time will tell.

Guillaume.

213

I was never a FFB. Kinda the oppposite. Never been really skinny never been overly fat never been overly muscular. In high school I looked athleteic. Lost muscle in college but still looked a bit athletic. Lost too much weight over the period of a year from adding in too much cardio to my weights. Been gaining it back for 6months. I was at 300g of carbs to maybe 400 before IG3 and I was not getting “fat”. I added some extra fat mainly because I was gaining weight.

But I could easily dropped cals a bit and lose while at that many carbs. But with IG3 I have had to increase the calories and I am still losing weight. Which is the opposite of what I am looking for. My body has become much more efficient with them. Buffd I know you really increased calories, i am wondering how much I should increase mine if you have time could you drop in my log and maybe give me some advice?

If not thats alright. Its about self discovery but I respect your opinions you have been around longer and have much more knowledge

214

[quote]MileHighSal wrote:
Did I miss something but wasn’t Shelby supposed to train 20 people? Did he quit or something? [/quote]

I had the same question. Had not heard from him on this site on a while. I know from his facebook page that he still promotes that he uses Biotest products. Within the last few days he mentioned finibars and low carb Metabolic Drive.

215

300g CHO not a lot? Maybe for a seriously training male, but what about a 180 lb female looking to lose weight and takes in 1800 cals/day, that’s 1200/1800 calories from CHO

let’s face it as well, most people that are overweight aren’t eating 300g carb/day from oatmeal, quinoa etc

216

[quote]SuperFast wrote:

[quote]ds1973 wrote:
No one’s getting fat off 300 grams of carbs if they’re eating below maintenance or training on a regular basis.[/quote]

Proven lie. Are YOU skinny, healthy, and strong eating that way? Good for YOU.

[/quote]

LOL at proven lie. I’d say I’m definitely less than 15% BF right now. Amazingly carbs give you great energy.

Look, I’ve spent some time on the calorie counting site I use to track macros and the MAJORITY of the users there are/were overweight females. Amazingly, when they start tracking calories accurately and moving more (even just walking) they start losing weight. We’re talking about obese women eating high carb diets (you know how women are about meat). They progress even faster when they buy a scale and start weighing their food.

You wouldn’t believe how many of them are amazed that the huge chicken breasts they buy at the grocery store are actually 8 ounces instead of 4. There’s one vegan there (yes vegan) who is amazingly lean, however she weight trains (deadlifts, pull-ups, squats, etc). http://caloriecount.about.com/profile/ambereva

Yes hormones matter, however it’s not clear the majority of people have hormone problems so much as over-eating tendancies. A lot of that is due to just not understanding how many calories are actually in the portion they buy/order. It’s especially easy for a women to suck down half her required calories in a venti mocha frappucino and not even realize it.

There’s an old saying that if you hear hoof beats, it’s probably not a zebra. You’re looking for the zebra in a continent that only has horses.

217

[quote]SuperFast wrote:

Just like on the “carbs in the evening” thread, you are denying/ignoring that MOST people’s bodies have different HORMONAL responses to different macros.

[/quote]

LOL. YOU aren’t most people! I thought I recognized your avatar pic, I read your log not too long ago. You had a closed head injury, were seeing an endocrinologist for thyroid issues and found out you have low T. YOU are not MOST PEOPLE . You have a real problem that Indigo-3G may help you overcome. Good luck with that by the way. Sounds like you’ve had good success keeping carbs low.

218

[quote]guillaume76 wrote:

[quote]jskrabac wrote:
Perhaps somebody has some insight on my observation so far. From what I can tell (with the exception of the few elite trainees here) we have a giant mass of protocol users who were typically afraid of carbs and eating anywhere from 50-150g per day. Now they are bumping that up to 300-400/day and having much more energy in the gym and a higher capacity for work.

My first thought about this is, “well…duh.” You don’t need I3G to see this effect. To the outside observer this could resemble a giant placebo effect. [/quote]

I’m using Indigo-3G right now (Day #10), and I asked myself the same question.

Of course, doing the workout with 100g of carbs, instead of 0g carbs like before for me, I will definitely have more energy. I did two more wide-grip pull up every set last monday, and two more decline bench press rep every set last wednesday. Does only adding carbs can have this effect ? I have not the experience to answer, as I usually always do my workouts without any carbs.

However what I know, is that before when eating 3 carb meals a day, I could start gaining muscles but a lot of fat too. That was mainly on starches, mainly pasta. Eating 300g carbs a day was common, but I couldn’t get lean.

For many months, I stopped eating carbs after lunch (except the week end), and although muscle gain were very slow, strenght too, at least fat loss was steady over time.

I think Indigo-3G is challenged with me, I’m back again to 3 carbs meal a day, 200g carbs a day or more. If it works, I’ll see it because I will lose fat and get leaner (the gain of muscle, if any, could be from more calories and carbs). That won’t be placebo, facts will be facts.

I’ll keep my log updated with photo, but not every day or week… I guess a photo every 15 days will be fine.

I trully understand the skepticism. I don’t think I’m in the placebo kind of guy. I didn’t felt anything different taking Alpha GPC for instance, although I’m still taking it for the GH effect (if any).

I’m still anyway confident in the results, and excited to try Indigo-3G :slight_smile:

Time will tell.

Guillaume.

[/quote]

As Buffd stated the 300g is taken along with a “legitimate weight training program”. How were you gaining muscle and fat? I took a look at you pictures and you have neither. You look like someone who has never trained.

I have not posted in this thread before nor have I bashed anyone for purchasing Indigo-3G but, it seems that many of the people state that they have been training for years yet they look like they have never seen the inside of a gym.

I do not think that 300 grams of carbs is alot (I was a pretty fat kid and into my early teens so I was carb phobic for some time) especially if you are training hard and adding some conditioning work.
As Jehova pointed out it is unlikely that those getting fat are taking in carbs from clean sources I would even say that since they are probably not keeping track they are eating more than 300 grams and are having them with high fat foods.

219

[quote]ds1973 wrote:

[quote]SuperFast wrote:

Just like on the “carbs in the evening” thread, you are denying/ignoring that MOST people’s bodies have different HORMONAL responses to different macros.

[/quote]

LOL. YOU aren’t most people! I thought I recognized your avatar pic, I read your log not too long ago. You had a closed head injury, were seeing an endocrinologist for thyroid issues and found out you have low T. YOU are not MOST PEOPLE . You have a real problem that Indigo-3G may help you overcome. Good luck with that by the way. Sounds like you’ve had good success keeping carbs low. [/quote]

It is you, not me, saying “I have such and such experience, therefore, carbs don’t make most people fat”. I am basing my statement that 300 g carbs per day will make most people fat on Gary Taubes’ book “Good Calories, Bad Calories” (mentioned by Jehovasfitness in the OP of this thread), which is over 400 pages of documentation of the evidence that it is CARBS - NOT “overeating” - that is by far the primary driver of the obesity epidemic in this country.

It’s not about me, or about you, it’s about what does the scientific method tell us about MOST people (and not just people on this site)…

220

[quote]SuperFast wrote:

[quote]ds1973 wrote:

[quote]SuperFast wrote:

Just like on the “carbs in the evening” thread, you are denying/ignoring that MOST people’s bodies have different HORMONAL responses to different macros.

[/quote]

LOL. YOU aren’t most people! I thought I recognized your avatar pic, I read your log not too long ago. You had a closed head injury, were seeing an endocrinologist for thyroid issues and found out you have low T. YOU are not MOST PEOPLE . You have a real problem that Indigo-3G may help you overcome. Good luck with that by the way. Sounds like you’ve had good success keeping carbs low. [/quote]

It is you, not me, saying “I have such and such experience, therefore, carbs don’t make most people fat”. I am basing my statement that 300 g carbs per day will make most people fat on Gary Taubes’ book “Good Calories, Bad Calories” (mentioned by Jehovasfitness in the OP of this thread), which is over 400 pages of documentation of the evidence that it is CARBS - NOT “overeating” - that is by far the primary driver of the obesity epidemic in this country.

It’s not about me, or about you, it’s about what does the scientific method tell us about MOST people (and not just people on this site)…[/quote]

Why would someone who lifts weights seriously care what makes “most people” fat?