Increasing Frequency of All Lifts at Once

[quote]Astar wrote:

The topic of steroids seems to come up alot whenever there is discussion about high frequency training but I think it’s less of a factor than people try to make it. One of the lowest frequency programs I can think of is the classic squat day, bench day, dl day, with possibly a second light bench session. This program was used to great effect by guys like Ed Coan (who used steroids) or how about 5/3/1, another really low frequency program created by Jim Wendler (who also used steroids) or the westside template, all the guys there are on gear. My point is that there are guys using on every major program so it seems silly to disregard one style of training out of hand because of it. Can you squat 15 times a week like the Bulgarians without some “help”? probably not. Can you squat 4-6 times and make progress? yes. [/quote]

Your post only lists guys on gear that have used low frequency programs, yet you want people to interpret that to mean “you don’t need gear to do high frequency”. Just because guys on gear used low frequency programs does not make the converse true. Logic fail.

(I’m not commenting on gear usage or not here, just an observation about a silly post)

[quote]Astar wrote:

[quote]muscle_g wrote:

What you have to relize is that most of the guys and gals that do those high frequency routines are taking some “extra” supplements to help with there recovery. I feel alot of people over look the needs of rest and recovery.[/quote]

The topic of steroids seems to come up alot whenever there is discussion about high frequency training but I think it’s less of a factor than people try to make it. One of the lowest frequency programs I can think of is the classic squat day, bench day, dl day, with possibly a second light bench session. This program was used to great effect by guys like Ed Coan (who used steroids) or how about 5/3/1, another really low frequency program created by Jim Wendler (who also used steroids) or the westside template, all the guys there are on gear. My point is that there are guys using on every major program so it seems silly to disregard one style of training out of hand because of it. Can you squat 15 times a week like the Bulgarians without some “help”? probably not. Can you squat 4-6 times and make progress? yes. [/quote]

I never said the guys on low frequency programs did not or does not use. Yes they are drug users that use many different templates, no doubt about it. And yes someone natural could maybe make gains off the high volume routines like the ones mentioned above but they have to pay alot more attention to recovery than the guys that do use would have to.

Personally I wouldnt attempt to increase the volume of deadlifting unless you drastically reduce the intensity of the DL sessions. I wouldnt want to press heavy more than twice a week either as it would start to destory my shoulders/wrists. When it comes to squatting…Id say you can do that as much as you want, IF you manage it sensibly. Thats a big IF. Ive squatted everyday for the past 18 days now and Ive hit 2 PR’s in that time (both singles). Several of those sessions have been multiple sets of 5 at 60kg - you could probably refer to these more as recovery than as work - but if you manage it well a lot of people have done it. I think youd run into a lot of problems if you were not squatting raw however.

you’ve been training a year and a half…of course you can recover quickly. and wheres your accessory work, among other things. you need to build a better base of strength, and most likely size. what someone already said, use a proven template for a few years, and learn how to make your own program. in essence, learn how to lift. it’ll take a decade, so get started.

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:

[quote]Astar wrote:

The topic of steroids seems to come up alot whenever there is discussion about high frequency training but I think it’s less of a factor than people try to make it. One of the lowest frequency programs I can think of is the classic squat day, bench day, dl day, with possibly a second light bench session. This program was used to great effect by guys like Ed Coan (who used steroids) or how about 5/3/1, another really low frequency program created by Jim Wendler (who also used steroids) or the westside template, all the guys there are on gear. My point is that there are guys using on every major program so it seems silly to disregard one style of training out of hand because of it. Can you squat 15 times a week like the Bulgarians without some “help”? probably not. Can you squat 4-6 times and make progress? yes. [/quote]

Your post only lists guys on gear that have used low frequency programs, yet you want people to interpret that to mean “you don’t need gear to do high frequency”. Just because guys on gear used low frequency programs does not make the converse true. Logic fail.

(I’m not commenting on gear usage or not here, just an observation about a silly post)[/quote]

Whenever the topic of training frequency comes up someone seems ready to jump in with the arguement of “you need steroids to train that way” and dismiss the whole concept out of hand, I believe largly due to the fact that some of the more high profile lifters who train in this fashion are/where using drugs. The purpose of my post was to demonstrate that a similar argument could be made for a number of low frequency training programs, none of which anyone seems ready to dismiss for drug free lifters, therefor it’s not a valid argument.

[quote]matsm21 wrote:
you’ve been training a year and a half…of course you can recover quickly. and wheres your accessory work, among other things. you need to build a better base of strength, and most likely size. what someone already said, use a proven template for a few years, and learn how to make your own program. in essence, learn how to lift. it’ll take a decade, so get started.[/quote]

There’s plenty of accessory work. I didn’t bother to mention bc this thread didn’t pertain to them at all whatsoever.

and what about Fomin? Thats 3 major lifts (SQ,BP,DL) at different intensity 3 times a week.

The volume on the bench seems excessive at the high weights you’re choosing. It may be for the squats too, but you don’t give a percentage. Just look at Friday/Saturday. 8x4 at 80% is a lot of work. It’s a tough workout on it’s own, but then the very next day you’re doing ten triples at 85%.

I think three weeks into this you’re going to be very fatigued in the pressing muscles. There are some programs people have gotten results in where they were benching and doing a sq/dl variant 3x a week, but the total volume was lower.

A friend of mine did a routine like that, and he made great gains for about a month then hit a wall and declined fast. You’re young and new-ish to lifting so you’ll recover faster than some of us older guys, but you need time to recover and heal.

[quote]Pigeon wrote:
The volume on the bench seems excessive at the high weights you’re choosing. It may be for the squats too, but you don’t give a percentage. Just look at Friday/Saturday. 8x4 at 80% is a lot of work. It’s a tough workout on it’s own, but then the very next day you’re doing ten triples at 85%.

I think three weeks into this you’re going to be very fatigued in the pressing muscles. There are some programs people have gotten results in where they were benching and doing a sq/dl variant 3x a week, but the total volume was lower.

A friend of mine did a routine like that, and he made great gains for about a month then hit a wall and declined fast. You’re young and new-ish to lifting so you’ll recover faster than some of us older guys, but you need time to recover and heal.[/quote]

Yeah it’s only about a 3 week cycle for the bench anyway, keeping in mind its the smolov Jr.

And I decided to remove the second deadlift day. But the Wednesday DL day would require an intensity of about 88-89% on the last set.
Monday’s sq. would be ~90-93% and friday’s would be ~86%.

So far benching all 4 days a week hasnt been any problem, however im still on the first week which requires very generously low insities in my oppinion. I do expect to need 3-4 days off after the cycle.

At the moment I squat every day. I’ve been doing so for now 18 days in a row. Before this I’ve been squatting for many many years, but mostly 3-4 times a week, but also as frequent as 6 times a week. I am natural, and always will be. Many people may think it is impossible to train a lift every day. If you train with too much intensity, the chance for burnout and injuries are very high. HOWEVER, and this is the most IMPORTANT point: Given you utilize proper intensity management, it is doable. So basically what I did for my own cycle that I am running now, is that I took and modified the smolov base meso cycle (I’ve earlier posted a spreadsheet with a program that I called “Smolov S Aplha”). Basically it is just the smolov base meso cycle with REDUCED intensities, and instead of 4 times a week, I put one day of rest between each squat day, thus it became 3 or 4 times with squats every week. For my summer project, when there are no stress in my life and everything that I do is to squat, eat and sleep, I decided to give 7 days a try. So I took the Smolov S Alpha, based it of my non-paused max, and do all the days in the program as outlined with paused squats as this for me is less taxing than explosive squats. Of course to good depth and with no belt and a high bar close stance style. On the off-day in this program I put in more light low rep squats like 10x2, 8x3 and 7x4. Thus it became a program of squats every day that looked like this (All numbers in kilos):

W1 4x9@150 8x3@140 5x7@160 10x2@150 7x5@170 8x3@120 10x3@180
W2 7x4@150 4x9@160 8x3@150 5x7@170 10x2@160 7x5@180 8x3@130
W3 10x3@190 7x4@160 4x9@165 8x3@140 5x7@175 10x2@170 7x5@185
W4 8x3@140 10x3@195

If I say the pre-1RM was 240kg non-paused and 230kg paused, then for instance the heaviest day will become 84% (195/230), compared to the original smolov base meso cycle where the heaviest day is at 91%. As you can see, many of the days are in the range 150-170kg, and that is in the percentage range 65%-74%. I haven’t bothered to calculate the average intensity yet, but I will do it at a later stage.

The norwegian national powerlifting association have conducted a study where they tested the results of 6 days a week of squats vs. 3 days a week of squats to see what was most beneficial for strength gains. 6 times a week was more beneficial. I have no actual numbers to back it up, but you can contact the NSF at styrkeloft.no if you are interested in more details about this scientific study.

At the moment I am on day 18 of my 23 day project, and I am thinking of extending it, but based on how I feel by the end of it. In the beginning I had some difficulties recovering from the volume, and my sleep requirements skyrocketed, and some days I could do nothing else but staying in bed because I was so tired. However, at the moment after 18 days with this, I feel actually almost recovered, so it seems the body is adapting to it. Frankly, I’ve been feeling even more worse doing the actual smolov base meso cycle. I always get increasingly tired doing it, and the 2nd and 3rd week is real hell, and motivation for training always reaches nearly rock bottom, but I still go and squat. As you know, the smolov base meso cycle is only squatting 4 times a week, but it is brutal anyway.

So you can’t blindly stare at the number of days and make a conclusion from that, you got to take into consideration the amount of volume, and the average intensity. I believe I could not have done something like in the beginning stages of my training, as I did not have the knowledge or the preparedness to do it properly. However, now after training for 10 years, I know my body much better, so it is easier to set up a program.

I’ve also tried benching every day, using something similar. That works too, but when I tried to jump directly to squatting AND benching every day, then it become too much, and I got a shoulder injury, so I’ve dropped the benches for the time being, I can always catch up on that later on when the shoulder is healed, and besides I hit my summer goal in the bench press, so really I don’t care if it becomes a bit weaker if I can increase my squat, it will come back up soon enough when I hit it seriously again.

If you’re a serious squatter, you’d benefit from squat several times a week. Of course you can become stronger from training a lift only once a week, but there is so much more benefits from training more often:

  • You get more used to the exercise, and it becomes second nature to you.
  • You can work on the technique more often.
  • You become more confident.
  • The execution becomes automatic, turning you into a squat machine.

Squatting frequently will work provided the percentages are set right, or if you do not use percentages, that you are a very good judge of what you should lift that day (auto-regulation, RTS comes to mind), perhaps the best would be to have a coach that knows you 100% and can help you with this.

Squatting frequently will not work if you work too hard, and try to increase the volume and intensity too fast. Regardless of what John Broz or the Bulgarians say, I believe this can quickly get you into some REAL trouble: It means REAL INJURIES that it can take months to recover from. Pushing through such injuries are stupid. But of course you can most of the time work around an injury, or if you have a knee problem, you can do exercises that does not trigger the problem. So there is always something you can do, no matter your condition.

I must also mention the importance of nutrition. For the natural lifter taking a creatine product can be beneficial, as it will help you have more energy for the workouts. You should consume a lot of food, and not be afraid of getting a larger stomach. If you are afraid of getting a larger stomach, you should stop squatting, and team up with celeb blogger Perez to play golf in the daytime and frequent gay bars in the night time. If you want to get a big squat, you do what needs to be done. Before bedtime it is beneficial with a large meal filled with proteins, so the body can heal and increase its strength while you sleep. That’s when most of the adaption takes place. Also drink a lot of water to keep yourself hydrated.

The body is able to keep up with more stress than you thought possible, but you must ease into it sensibly and take into consideration all the variables that let you make it or break it.

Of course there are people out there that train every day that are on steroids, it however by no means mean that everybody out there who trains every day are on steroids.

The keyword is: Intensity management.

I’m running a log on T-Nation if anyone is interested to follow my summer project with squatting 7 days a week, and I’ve uploaded every video to my youtube account as well. If you check out my profile for previous posts, you’ll find it.

I hope this was beneficial to some of you. I decided to go the real way: Raw, natural, no belt, no wraps. And I train alone in silence.

Mike Tuscherer is another lifter who is far stronger than me who also trains alone, he’s developed the RTS-system. If anyone have genuine questions, they could send me a message. Ignorant or stupid questions are a waste of my time and will not be answered.

– Stallion

Stallion, you are one squattin’ motherfucker. I really enjoy your posts.

There’s plenty of accessory work. I didn’t bother to mention bc this thread didn’t pertain to them at all whatsoever.[/quote]

Bro, accessory work is extremely pertintent to understand overall volume and trying to wrap your hands around CNS load. There is no 1 perfect training routine.
You sound like you’re giving this a lot of thought, a real thinker. Based on your experience, I vote for you to try 5/3/1 for several rotations.

Thank you spocat. I actually trained using 5/3/1 for a very long time without even realizing it. I just like the feeling of mastery over the lifts by training them frequently; I like to think of the power lifts as skills, so therefore I prefer frequency. That is my reasoning behind what I’m trying to do. I’ve possibly used too much intensity though I think.

Also, my accessory work is usually only 2 other exercises, usually for 3-4 sets w/ no less than 8 reps for the most part. That pretty much holds true for every workout.