That’s exactly what i guessed , you’re decreasing your calories too much, keeping everything else the same, thus you feel like shit. You Cut your calories, continue lifting as you would, body can’t recover as well, body isn’t getting what it needs, and slowly goes down hill.
I personally almost never touch my calories when cutting unless I have some god awful reason I want to be extra lean for something. Talking 7-8% body fat.
You can eat your maintenance calories, and still lean out slowly by adding cardio and changing your resistance training a bit.
Your problem is that you do very little in regard to fat burning and cardio. You sit at a desk for work, you probably don’t eat the most healthy daily diet, you drink some alcohol, you don’t do cardio, AND you power lift (typically requiring longer rests between sets and lower reps which in turn results in less getting your heart rate up).
^^^^ this is pretty much exactly why your physique is the way that it is. I asked the questions that I did because I could have guessed. It’s not a BAD thing, but you just need to be honest with yourself about why your body is the way that it is, and you need change.
You can’t get stronger and stay super lean without cardio and a crappy diet.
That’s a fair point to all of the above. Except the diet thing. I eat a decent amount of food in general but my diet is actually healthy. I live in Thailand so food is rather cheap. Fresh meat and produce is 90% of my diet. The other 10 coming from milk and butter. And by drinking beer I mean maybe 2 a week.
Actually I find powerlifting style lifts get my HR up the most
A set of heavy deadlifts for 8-10 reps will easily push my HR up to 160 (albeit very, very briefly)
But to OP, bf% is probably closer to 20-23%
Have you ever cut down this low? If so… how did you feel? I’m contemplating going down real low… just because, but I think it might be reckless and stupid… 10-12% is healthier, more maintainable (going from probably about 16% currently)… also I can’t really press (dips are fine though) as are lateral, front and rear delt raises… it’s a shame because I was JUST about to start shoulder pressing for the first time in over a year… then I fuck up my shoulder…
Generally around 2500-2800. I aim for at least .8g per lb. And 90% of the time I meet this. The rest is roughly 50/50 carbs/fat. Higher fat comes from the eggs. I eat a lot of them. I can get a crate of 30 fresh eggs for $3. It’s hard not to take advantage of that
Power lifting style lifts… but you are doing 8-10 reps, that’s the zone for me as well, and not really what I was referring to. I associate power lifting with 1RM, sets of 3-5 reps or less. Sounds like you’re talking more about the main lifts, but higher reps, which is the opposite of what I’m getting at. Hitting a 1RM or 3 reps and then taking 5 minute breaks, isn’t the best way to really get the heart rate going.
Yes, I used to be ~8% year round for the most part. I never felt bad or had issues. But I stayed that way from training more so than cutting calories and starving myself. I was extremely active, played competitive sports 4 days a week, and lifted 6 days a week and didn’t HIIT. So I still ate a lot, but I burned a ton.
I also have a ridiculously high metabolism… I think I already told you, but my RMR is 2200cal, and TDEE estimate 3701 (I think both might actually be a bit higher).
So just by adding some cardio, faster paced lifting, I can cut a bit, and then cutting 500 calories still has me well over 3,000 calories, by no means making me feel shitty.
I’m almost the exact same stats as you. 3 years older and a bit bigger. The only thing I’d say is not to run a cycle unless you are prepared to go on trt permanently or are willing to accept the risk of going on trt if pct doesn’t work out.
Forgot to mention… although I didn’t have any “bad” effects from low body fat, you absolutely nailed it. 10-12% is healthier, easier, and to be honest, as I get older the less I care about being super lean. I’m currently about as fat as I’ve ever been.
I think 10-12% is the sweet spot personally. Up to 15% when you’re going hard for some size.
Yeah, I was only referencing my caloric intake for Unreal’s question.
Your TDEE might be even lower depending on your true RMR. If you’re really sitting at a desk all day, and your only physical activity is lifting heavy at the gym, then you might be even lower.
How many eggs are you eating? I eat 3 daily personally with a 1/2 cup egg whites and 3oz turkey meat mixed in. L
I got to 170 / ~8% entirely naturally. I have run 3 cycles thought over the last 3 years.
10wks 500mg Test weekly
10wks 500mg Test weekly and 4 weeks DBol 30mg.
13wks 500mg Test Weekly and 7 weeks anavar 50mg.
I am contemplating TRT for a myriad of reasons, but have yet to take the plunge.
I would HIGHLY suggest you hold off on either of them, until you have figured out your body and diet. If I’m not mistaken, you have kids? Get healthier, for them. You have a good amount of visceral fat, which is associated with health risks. Your diet is not where it should be or healthy given what I can see from the photos.
I’m sorry, I’m not trying to be mean, just shoot you straight. If you can’t lean up without feeling shitty, and figure out your diet, then AAS will only help so much, and when you come off, your body will go back to how it was before cycle.
Nah man. I appreciate the conversation. Been on the forums for years. This has been one of the most pleasant back fourths I’ve had on here. The pharma crowd is a reasonable and helpful bunch, lol.
I will bet you all the money in my wallet that it’s not. “But how can you know this?” asks the skeptical man. Because your size is pretty close to mine. My bf is a little lower and I’m maybe an inch shorter. But I train six days a week and work a desk job (not unlike you). Assumed my maintenance was 2,700 when I started to cut. Nothing happened. I dropped further. Nothing. It wasn’t until I got to 1,800/d that I started to see weight loss. So either I’m a freak of nature who needs a 900 calorie deficit to lose weight or maintenance numbers were off by a shitload. I’m guessing the latter is more likely.
The majority of guys in this section are entirely here to help. Many folks get butt hurt when people tell them to hold off on AAS, but the truth is, it’s coming from a good place.
There’s so many folks that don’t listen, that end up running a cycle prematurely before having their diet and training locked down, and then once off cycle, they lose what they gained.
AAS will make you stronger, no doubt there, and it can help you lose some fat. But once
You come off, your body will revert back to normal if your diet and training aren’t locked down. The higher body fat also makes for estrogen issues that can usually be avoided with lower body fat percentages.
That’s the problem… RMR and TDEE are all subjective and estimates, unless you get an RMR Test done… even then, TDEE is how active you perceive yourself to be… it’s very vague. Take me for example… I don’t sit down AT ALL, until 7pm at night, and I go to bed 830/9. My entire day is on my feet, walking, chasing kids, etc, then two hours in the gym.
My metabolism has been Sky high since I was little. I shit 5-6 times a day and have my entire life.
With all of that… my RMR estimate was 400 lower than testing… I would imagine I probably fall higher on the “activity” scale for TDEE than even they describe.
There’s no better way than experimenting to figure out where one truly needs to be.
I tend to disagree here. If you’re in “healthy” bf% and your labs are “healthy”, then I think being a little chunky shouldn’t stop you. Obviously you could get closer to 15% but get labs and honestly access current bf%. Your training is looking good based on your lifts. Your not doing a show, a powerlifting competition, or have a perfect destination physique in mind. You’re just a dude looking to get an edge. And the muscle you build on cycle won’t just go away because your bf% isn’t 11. If you are clinically health that’s the important part. As for trt, having low t could be contributing to weight gain. Testosterone alone is very well tolerated at moderate doses by many.
All that said, see my above post about starting aas.
Being 20%+ body fat and jumping on cycle could result in more complications with estrogen, gynecomastia, along with the typical issues of bloat, blood pressure, etc.
20%+ body fat is not considered “clinically healthy”, nor is excess amounts of visceral fat.
Lastly, I never stated muscle would disappear because you aren’t 11%. If your diet and training are not on point, your body will revert back to old norms after enough time has passed after coming off cycle. If your diet sucks, and you make progress on cycle, and then go off cycle with the same shitty diet, the chances of you going back to your pre cycle physique are quite high.
Can’t tell you how many people I know personally that have run one cycle, looked great, and now you’d NEVER know they went to the gym.