Sipping on Surge throughout a training session will diminish the size/effect of the insulin spike postworkout.
Discuss.
Conversely doing so should reduse or eliminate the need for said Spike as you are keeping a more constant state of Carbs and Aminos in the blood stream. In a sense halting the catabolic effect ASAP.
But thats a big if the whole during some arent sold On Like Dave Barr I do beleive. Mainly I think for the reasoning that you kind of stop the absorption etc of food when you are working HARD all the energy is going to the work. This is why he suggest the Before lifting nutrition. To come into the session with a rich supply in the blood then a Spike after.
My take
As far as I am aware, insulin initially suppresses GH and IGF1 secretion (produced during training)- but also acts synergistically with the two hormones to produce hypertrophy.
Therefore it would seem to me that we want to keep insulin at bay throughout the workout, and spike as much as possible afterwards. This could entale fastprotein/carbs maybe 30-40mins before exercise, and the same again immediately PW.
Having read many articles on Surge, there is a constant reminder that the fast carbs, hydrolysed whey, and BCAA combination produces a far larger spike than carbs alone. Why would this even be an issue if we are sipping DURING the session?
Any takers?
Dave_
Ive been questioning the idea lately.
So far i believe athletes certainly need it if they are going to have multiple training sessions, long duration, etc…
But for the rest of us who only work out around 45-50 minutes a pop… I dont think it makes that much of a diference if you take it during or after. Its a measly 45 mins the effects of waiting wont kill you. Not will it break your physique goals.
I like to have eaten something a little while before working out though.
I can’t speak for my insulin IGF and GH levels but here is and in depth analysis of my training with and without Surge.
Surge before, during, and after:
I can lift harder, longer, and recover faster.
No Surge:
Not only do I run out of gas and struggle to recover before my next workout but I begin to drop weight.
It may just be the extra calories but I notice the difference biking or playing 2 hours of ultimate frisbee. If I sip Surge during the activity I fell strong all the way through.
Seeing that I’m more active in the summer, without Surge I don’t think I would be able to recover enough to have optimal weight workouts.
I drink 1/2 of my serving of Surge right after I warm up prior to starting my workout and I sip the rest of the serving between sets.
I would not be able to workout at 5:00 AM without it.
Thing is, insulin secretion is going to be pretty low during exercise anyway, and glucose disposal is going to be accomplished by non-insulin mediated pathways. So I wouldn’t think keeping blood glucose up with a CHO beverage during training is going to have much of an impact on insulin afterwards.
If anything, I would expect gastric empying to be slowed during exercise, leaving the bulk of a pre- and during workout beverage to chill out until after exercise ends, just like we want.
That’s what I reckon anyway.
Hmm I’ve always sipped my shake through the workout. So this is not ideal?
[quote]Phill wrote:
Conversely doing so should reduse or eliminate the need for said Spike as you are keeping a more constant state of Carbs and Aminos in the blood stream. In a sense halting the catabolic effect ASAP.
But thats a big if the whole during some arent sold On Like Dave Barr I do beleive. Mainly I think for the reasoning that you kind of stop the absorption etc of food when you are working HARD all the energy is going to the work. This is why he suggest the Before lifting nutrition. To come into the session with a rich supply in the blood then a Spike after.
My take
[/quote]
I agree completely.
I’ve always sipped mine during and after. Just recently, I started drinking half immediately before and sipping the other half during, and my pumps are way bigger. That’s gotta be worth something, no?
I’m not an expert by any means, but wouldn’t sipping a sugar-only drink during a workout be futile as there will be no spike when protein is ingested? I thought that protein and carbs worked synergistically because of the insulin carrying the amino acids or something. I’m just wondering because JB said sugar-only is better than just water.
[quote]conorh wrote:
Thing is, insulin secretion is going to be pretty low during exercise anyway, and glucose disposal is going to be accomplished by non-insulin mediated pathways. So I wouldn’t think keeping blood glucose up with a CHO beverage during training is going to have much of an impact on insulin afterwards. [/quote]
That’s a thought I’ve had before in favour of workout-sippage, but it seems that insulin is still abundant during exercise - as this is exactly how Surge acts as an indirect haemodilator:
http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=556939
Also, even if non insulin-mediated pathways are a small part of the puzzle, how long does their effect last for? We are told to have Surge immediately PW, but would insulin take over the full workload again this quickly?
[quote]conorh wrote:
If anything, I would expect gastric empying to be slowed during exercise, leaving the bulk of a pre- and during workout beverage to chill out until after exercise ends, just like we want.
That’s what I reckon anyway.[/quote]
But isn’t one of the main features of Surge the fact that minimal digestion is required? Just like “BCAAs”, the dextrose and AAs (from hydrolysed whey) will be getting straight into your bloodstream.
I’m all for preworkout surge, because as has already been said one has boundless energy and fantastic blood supply to the muscles. I’m just theorising that it’s the insulin spike that we desire, and that Surge during W will lessen it.
Don’t get me wrong, I think that during a particularly long gymming session, or more specific endurance work Surge is great. It will increase performance which is obviously one of the biggest factors in the hypertrophy equation. I’m talking about your average <1 hour weight-training session.