Good post. I didn’t see it before while scrolling.
You put it better than me. For anecdotal evidence I’ll say, “I’ll direct you to such evidence: walk out the door or turn on a computer or television.”
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This isn’t an exaggeration.
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As much as I’d like to believe that all women compete to be sexy and show off their amazing things, I just can’t.
I know a few women who went to college/university on athletic scholarships, and they didn’t play for the titilation of men. And they werent big lumpy lesbians. They were competitors. Even years later you can see that they’re sharp and play to win- and they do win. All of the traits and skills that make anybody competitive show up in what they do, just like in men.
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Just my two cents.
Uniforms should be functional. If the uniform is for tennis, I’d think the outfit for the person running around gathering balls would be similar to what the players wear.
I agree here. I also have some concern for women who aren’t the most attractive wanting to play sports and a sexy uniform being a hindrance to them.
Technically correct bud, you most certainly CAN force others to moderate their behaviour to fit certain moulds, once you do though we start flirting with that fine line and ill defined ideas of where personal freedom and tyranny begin and end and who gets to make those decisions which is a way deeper conversation than I’m qualified to go into haha
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Unless there’s one donut left.
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If woman are required to wear skirts and crop tops then the same is required for men. The excuse that men’s junk would pop out is lame… that doesn’t happen with men wearing speedos if sized correctly.
Clearly… some ball boys and male spectators would have issues with this, so a unisex outfit would be best for all parties involved.
Well I can’t think of every possible scenario!
“Who ate the last ham?”
“Do you mean last Of the ham?”
“No!”
Maybe men prefer to dress like men. The horror!
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Maybe I was a bit too subtle. I refer you to the post I quoted saying the majority of women “do sports to look sexy”.
I think that’s horsesh##
I don’t want a unisex outfit. I’m sure many women don’t either. I’m sure must men don’t want that. I want to dress like a man and a woman should be able to dress like a woman. As long as it’s not too tight/short/nude, then there should be no problem with dressing sex specific. If the women themselves do not complain about their competition uniforms, it should also not matter. And as long as spectators don’t complain about the top right/short/nude criteria to a certain extent, it should also not matter.
As I said, there should be general standard to what constitutes decent dressing and that people generally should abide by. Outside of that standard, a bystander or spectator should be able to complain that he doesn’t wanna see the genitals of another person. Outside of that standard women shouldn’t be forced to wear uniforms and should refrain from wearing them. I know this is not popular to have societal standards to people (especially on the left), but if we don’t have a standard that defines what’s ok and what isn’t, we have these idiot discussions about situations where people try to pinpoint what could be the problem with a certain dress code but never have a consistent rule of why it is indecent.
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Serena Williams, by choice, wore outfits that intentionally showed off her body. But none of these offended types would ever criticize her.
I don’t think women do sports to look sexy. I believe they do it because they enjoy them and at the higher levels they do them to win and in some cares for a living in the same way any other female professional works or women use their talents elsewhere.
That is admirable.
I highly doubt they would go through the rigors and sacrifice at elite levels just to look sexy.
With that being said, I not only agree with what @lordgains said, but regularly see what he described, as I have since around twelve years old (now going on 44). It is impossible to not see.
What prompted my interest in your post is the mention of men’s wrong attitudes considering it seems to me that likely most men have a positive, if not, a fawning, attitude towards nearly all of what women do, particularly in what involves ambition, high status, and sexual attention.
Actually a huge fuss is made these days about what women want and what they think. Hence the zillion “what do women want?” videos. Even young school girls demand to dress as they please in the classroom. Even some men now judge other men on whether they have a woman or not, as if having female approval or validation are currencies of sorts, to see if another man should be taken seriously. A man can say something off-putting and be deemed an incel (even if married) as if having a woman is a measure of his intellect.
Do you consider the aforementioned wrong attitude to women’s sports common? I haven’t seen it.
So you do agree with what he said, or you don’t ? You seem to say both in the same post there.
I apologise if I’ve misunderstood what anyone meant but I just went with what was written. I think some women train and play sport to keep fit and healthy and a byproduct might be to also try to look good. I also think some women play sport because they like playing sport and to compete because they like competition. Just like men. And how they look when they’re doing it is a secondary consideration.
Also wonder how many people on this thread actually watch tennis broadcast from Spain and actually give a toot about what the ball girls wear. 
Spain should care about wokeism trying to infiltrate its borders.
I’d say this is for most men and women. Almost everybody cares how others perceive them (including the ones who claim they don’t IMO).
Men are pretty honest that they care about a woman’s looks, so it is natural that most women if they value finding a good man spends resources trying to look good.
Most men try to be what women want as well if their goal is to attract women. A big driver for men wanting to be successful is attracting women, because women generally highly value success. They will buy luxury cars, or fancy clothes to signal this success, much how women will wear something sexy. Both are attempting to signal “I have what you want”.
It doesn’t seem society views men signaling their value on the sexual market as negatively as it does for women. Perhaps because the latter is more directly sexual?
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This will be the most sexist thing I’ll say today, but discussing anything with a woman is always the same spiel. You took offense to how I wrote it while saying exactly the same thing in different wording. Read what I wrote again:
The overwhelming majority can exclude some high level competitors but obviously not all. It includes mainly 90% of the gym girl who go there to look better. This is obviously true. I talk to many many girls at my gym and only a few came to like the training itself after a while but they still (with one exception) dress super revealing while doing it and very much enjoy the attention they get for their hard earned bodies.
The “that may change over time” line is what happens when girls start to love the competition, some are even naturally very competitive. Still, even those enjoy the attention and like that they are seen as sexy. Again, please go check the Olympic sprinter or jumper/track and field girls’ instagram. They present themselves in revealing and sexy clothing. It’s clear that looking sexy and being a high status female is a secondary consideration even for them.
I don’t know when it became controversial to say that women like to look good. It’s always fun to watch women spin their wheels as soon as a man insinuates that they might wear make-up and hot it up to get male (and female) attention. The truth is, there is no other reason to do it. Surprise, the sprinter girls who start their sprint with their faces completely covered in make up don’t do it to sprint better.
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Good post.
It’s normal and fine for women to leverage their sexuality to attract men, and it’s their foremost quality get things moving. If I recall correctly, it was the big meanie Schopenhauer who said if it weren’t for the sex act, men and women would hardly talk to each other. He was a bit much though, very hyperbolic. Up until relatively recently, women managed to leverage their sexuality without walking around half to nearly nude in public.
Do you mean a society that did or does? As said with a number of topics regarding sexuality and the sexes, when people speak of decorum or sexual propriety I don’t know what society now, in the current day, they are talking about.
It’s like when someone says, “Society expects you to have kids and get married.” Just where in the Western world is this expected now? It’s like going against an expectations that don’t even exist.
Anyway, as stated elsewhere, and what is common sense, a market, in this case the sexual market, is regulated on the supply side (access to sex), not the demand side (men seeking sex). Hence the “double standard” that doesn’t even exist anymore.
Anyway, I looked back at the OP here. The outfits don’t seem problematic to me.
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This is still the general expectation. Hence why countries with low birth rates like South Korea and Japan are really starting to freak out about it.
Surveys are generally in line with this one. The majority of THIS generations young adults want kids again. Arguably more so than gen X and gen Z. In countries where costs of living aren’t absurd, and partners have access to a living wage… the rates of marriage and pregnancy aren’t that low.
The stereotypical archetype of the promiscuous teen sometimes rings true, however you aren’t giving the kiddos enough credit. It isn’t like it’s extremely rare to hear people my age (early to mid 20’s) talk about marriage, having kids etc.
My brother was going to get married in his early 20’s. The limiting factor (at least here) is the cost of living. I’ve shown you how expensive Aus is, and most families (unlike America) aren’t going to provide an equitable degree of support for their child once said child is up and off on their own two feet.
No “paying for your child’s college” over here, the child pays for it himself through taking up loans and potentially racking up debt. Very rare for a parent to pay for a child’s rent, groceries, gas etc.
The kind of relationship dynamics you see unfold in front of you are largely a byproduct of sample ship bias, that’s why I prefer to look at stats and making a conclusion based on epidemiological data, surveys, anecdote and pooled anecdote of course people are more willing to lie or exaggerate in open discussion when talking about sex
re sample ship bias I can use an analogy from within my life. When I was globetrotting like a big independent noodle I was constantly surrounded by young, horny teens who were under little oversight from authority figures. When I lived on campus I was also surrounded by young, sexually adventurous teens and young adults who had been freshly exposed to living independently.
During my time on campus, I lived quite a hedonistic lifestyle. During my time overseas during the particular trip I speak of I’d grown out of that lifestyle. In both instances, due to the demographic I was integrated within I came to see teenagers as impulsive, promiscuous, slightly irritating and irrational. These were crowds that constantly went clubbing, got wasted all the time, engaged in risky hookups and partook in otherwise antisocial behaviour. Think peeing in the street, smashing bottles, fighting etc.
These teenagers make up a tiny sub-fraction of all teenagers. In Australia the vast, vast majority of teenagers stay with their parents throughout college. When you step farther back as I have done and remove certain sub-demographics of teens from you list of people you wish to interact with
- kids whose parents hand everything to them on a silver platter
- Young people living on campuses that are near bars and clubs… which is almost all campuses (tiny fraction of college students here)
- kids who are into clubbing and festivals. Of those who are into this, most only go once a year if that… the percentage of young adults who go to clubs or raves once a month or more is only around 7-8% here.
The outliers make noise and catch our attention because they are SO bad. This current generation’s average teenager is more sensible than we give them credit for, they’re certainly more sensible than the kids from the 90s… There’s a saying “if you hang around shit you’ll smell like shit”.
The same can go for observational analysis mediated from the demographics you hang around with. I hung around teenagers that had a proclivity to behave like morons. Teenagers who LIKED to go to clubs, teenagers who were globetrotting without any guidance, teenagers who had JUST left home for the first time. As a byproduct of my environment, I was more likely to see reckless, irresponsible archetypes.
Now that I’ve flung myself into the throes of academia, I’m surrounded by many like-minded individuals. Teenagers and young adults (20s) will always be teenagers and young adults, however the cohorts I’ve been around recently have developed a work-life/fun balance that leads to long term maintenance of mental health and academic success without risking burnout or failure.
Kids aren’t buying into sensationalist political agendas, hook up culture, and hedonism. I could go on and on about the problems I have with some young adults, but as of recent I’ve been pleasantly surprised to find how grounded most young adults pursuing academia tend to be.
The girl I’m currently going out with (nothing official yet) is probably one of the most grounded, responsible people I’ve ever met… amazing young woman. She’s a genius i.e getting a masters degree before the age of 19. A pre-requisite of mine re long term partner is that the woman has a level of intellect that is at least on par with or preferably greater than that of my own.
I’m telling you… If property was within reach of affordability for young adults, you’d see far more getting married. Our divorce rates are about as high as the United State’s divorce rates now but here’s the kicker. No fault divorce akin to the way it is present in the US isn’t a thing here. For “no fault” force to be processed it takes years to get through usually coupled with tens of thousands of dollars in legal fees. Even “at fault” divorce barring physical or extreme emotional abuse takes about 1-1.5 years to get through. It’s such a pain to get a divorce here
Top case for divorce in Aus = affective pathology like drug use, infidelity. Followed by abuse and the… wait for it… external pressures i.e toxic work environment.
From an epidemiological perspective, here are the reasons why around half of all marriages implode (can be overlapping variables)
- Domestic violence, coercive control and abuse – 66 per cent
- Infidelity – 65 per cent
- Continual argumentative conflict with spouse – 37 per cent
- Career related pressure and Poor 27 per cent
- Financial reasons – 4.7 per cent
Hence shotgun marriages aren’t as common here as they are in the states as you can’t just nullify/revoke your marriage with a quick divorce
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A common criticism of shows like Euphoria (I haven’t watched it, so I might be talking out of my ass) is that it makes this kind of behavior seem typical. It is far from it. It would be like if the movie Wolf of Wall Street was made in a way that it made it seem like that is how average stock traders lived.
I think you are right though. Most young people are more tame than previous generations. Most of the 25 and under crowd I know (mostly from the gym) seem fairly boring, compared to even a decade ago.
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