I'm Ready to Cut and Run

[quote]
BostonBarrister wrote:
Very interesting article from Newsweek from Fareed Zakaria, looking at how we should re-prioritize in order to “win” (in quotes because you need to define your objective first…):

Wreckless wrote:
The article doesn’t mention “win”, it says: “to avoid defeat”. Not the same thing.

I always click the link, you should know that by now.[/quote]

Very good - you followed the link and missed the point… I explained my use of the quotes – I wasn’t highlighting a quote from the article, I was highlighting a non-traditional usage of the word.

Now, as to the article, anyone have any thoughts on Zakaria’s outlook, which is rather pessimistic but may be realistic in terms of how we should define our objectives going forward?

[quote]Wreckless wrote:
Also, you can send your kids to school without having to worry to much that some sicko just bought himself a nice semi-automatic at the shopping-mall.
I’d say that’s freedom.[/quote]

Lousy fucking example.

We had a school shooting at Montreal’s Dawson College about a month ago.

A week later a high school kid was arrested for bragging on a website that he was “going to do better” at his own school.

[quote]BostonBarrister wrote:
Very interesting article from Newsweek from Fareed Zakaria, looking at how we should re-prioritize in order to “win” (in quotes because you need to define your objective first…):

BB, thanks for posting this. This author seems to “get it”. He is really on the right track for a realistic solution.

[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
Restore democracy?
The arabs have no cultural concept of democracy, you ignorant.
[/quote]

so true

[quote]vroom wrote:
Lorisco wrote:
Ok, then I don’t want to hear any crying after we pull out and they start killing each other. Don’t want to hear; “the children are dieing, we have to do something!”

Be very clear, if we cut and run it will be civil war and many, many, people will die. And it will go on for years.

I imagine somebody has already replied, but that doesn’t sound very different than now does it?

What I think is that the situation is right fucked. You can stay and sit there inside the clusterfuck or you can get out and watch the clusterfuck from the outside.

Regardless, it was still the Bush doctrine that brought it about either way, let’s not try to set up blame for people other than Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld, as they were the assclowns that brought about this disaster.

[/quote]

It doesn’t matter how we got there now. The idea is what do we do now? I hear liberals whining about how bad it is, but not one of them has a plan to fix it. As you and others have stated, we are screwed either way.

So from an election perspective, liberals have to come up with more than a slogan that states “we aren’t Bush!”. If they don’t have any new/good ideas to fix things then they are no better than Bush, because he has no clue either, but we no what we have with him as apposed to someone new who will be a total gamble.

[quote]Wreckless wrote:
These are the “tough men”, the “straight talking cowboys”, the “good Christian men” that would “restore honor in the White House”.

Now they say: “it wasn’t me mommy, it was those evil libs. They made me do it mommy”.

You’re a tool HH.[/quote]

This last part is slightly incorrect. I ‘have’ a tool is what you meant to say. Hey, if your hero Kerry can skip a word, I know you can too!

Now, I know your envious that I have a tool and you don’t, but please try to live with it. Maybe a strap-on? I’m sure your pony would appreciate it.

Ride 'em cowboy!!

[quote]Lorisco wrote:
vroom wrote:
Lorisco wrote:
Ok, then I don’t want to hear any crying after we pull out and they start killing each other. Don’t want to hear; “the children are dieing, we have to do something!”

Be very clear, if we cut and run it will be civil war and many, many, people will die. And it will go on for years.

I imagine somebody has already replied, but that doesn’t sound very different than now does it?

What I think is that the situation is right fucked. You can stay and sit there inside the clusterfuck or you can get out and watch the clusterfuck from the outside.

Regardless, it was still the Bush doctrine that brought it about either way, let’s not try to set up blame for people other than Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld, as they were the assclowns that brought about this disaster.

It doesn’t matter how we got there now. The idea is what do we do now? I hear liberals whining about how bad it is, but not one of them has a plan to fix it. As you and others have stated, we are screwed either way.

So from an election perspective, liberals have to come up with more than a slogan that states “we aren’t Bush!”. If they don’t have any new/good ideas to fix things then they are no better than Bush, because he has no clue either, but we no what we have with him as apposed to someone new who will be a total gamble.[/quote]

Good talking point.

I read the memo every day too.

[quote]Marmadogg wrote:
Lorisco wrote:
vroom wrote:
Lorisco wrote:
Ok, then I don’t want to hear any crying after we pull out and they start killing each other. Don’t want to hear; “the children are dieing, we have to do something!”

Be very clear, if we cut and run it will be civil war and many, many, people will die. And it will go on for years.

I imagine somebody has already replied, but that doesn’t sound very different than now does it?

What I think is that the situation is right fucked. You can stay and sit there inside the clusterfuck or you can get out and watch the clusterfuck from the outside.

Regardless, it was still the Bush doctrine that brought it about either way, let’s not try to set up blame for people other than Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld, as they were the assclowns that brought about this disaster.

It doesn’t matter how we got there now. The idea is what do we do now? I hear liberals whining about how bad it is, but not one of them has a plan to fix it. As you and others have stated, we are screwed either way.

So from an election perspective, liberals have to come up with more than a slogan that states “we aren’t Bush!”. If they don’t have any new/good ideas to fix things then they are no better than Bush, because he has no clue either, but we no what we have with him as apposed to someone new who will be a total gamble.

Good talking point.

I read the memo every day too.[/quote]

What memo? I vote based on leadership and ideas. If a politician has both he will get my vote no matter what party he belongs to. However, typically liberals do not have any new feasible ideas and tend to run on platforms of disinformation and emotional rhetoric. But the minute a liberal comes up with a good plan to make things better, that is feasible and is not at the expense of one group to benefit another(class warfare), I will vote for him/her.

[quote]Lorisco wrote:

It doesn’t matter how we got there now.
[/quote]

It most definitely sure as fuck does matter how we got where we are now.

Dick, Rummy and their crew had several years to plan this shit out, and it’s pretty inexcusable to have then managed to fuck things up this bad.

What was it Bush just said the other day about what a great job those two are doing?

Maybe I should switch sides and get appointed to some important job in this administration. Then when I fuck it all up I can go home with a Medal of Freedom from the douchebag-in-chief.

[quote]towner24 wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:
By the way, what is Canada doing to keep itself safe from terrorism?

Besides being a country founded on the rule of law, with a constitution and democratically elected government?

How about having a police force with the ability to root out terrorist threats (such as the terrorists caught before they could attack in Ontario)?

Seems that the RCMP and CSIS have a working relationship and an open line of communication with the US to protect both countries (hence the deportation of a number of citizens suspected of having ties to terrorism…not all guilty unfortunately).

Or how about the war we’re involved with in Afghanistan, demonstrating that rogue regimes that train terrorists aren’t going to be tolerated? Your memory so short you forgot about that little war?

Do you even realize that if it were not for us, you people up there would be quite vunerable?

Canadians have fought and died (and continue to do so) for the safety of our country and that of other countries. I can’t think of a single instance of a war we started and asked for the US’s help.

We’re safe because you choose to have the most powerful military in the world, it’s called geography. We’re fortunate to be positioned where we are, but we certainly don’t owe you anything for that good fortune.

Anyway, I digress.

As to the OP, hopefully this is a sign that Iraq is getting ready to stand on its own…for better or worse. You can only do so much.[/quote]

Hey Bro,

Don’t get me wrong. I appreciate and honor all of the brave Canadian men and women who have fought side by side with our troops in Afghanistan and other places! These sons and daughters of Canada deserve our highest respect and admiration.

What I was trying to point out to Vroom and others who seem to show contempt for the United States that Canada’s relative peaceful state has much to do with our nations decision to keep itself strong. In other words, my proprosition is that if we did not keep ourselves strong and stand up to terrorists, Canada would be vunerable and would be forced to do the work.

Therefore, I expect Canadians to have an appreication for what the brave heros from my country are doing.

Why don’t we hear Vroom and others praising the U.S. troops?

Just some thoughts…

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:
vroom wrote:
doogie wrote:
Understand I still think we were right to go in. I just don’t want our troops being ordered around by the Iraqi Prime Minister to protect his friends.

Good thing the administration stopped using the phrase “stay the course” recently…

By the way, what is Canada doing to keep itself safe from terrorism? Do you even realize that if it were not for us, you people up there would be quite vunerable?

“Cut and run” is for cowards and for those who don’t have the stomach to do what is necessary to restore order and democracy in that part of the world. The terrorists are banking on narrow minded people like you and others to allow them to continue their reign of terror and to export terror all over the world – yes, even to Canada!

So, do they let you out of the straight jacket to type this shit, or do you just dictate it?[/quote]

Is your IQ above a 2?

[quote]Nominal Prospect wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:
By the way, what is Canada doing to keep itself safe from terrorism? Do you even realize that if it were not for us, you people up there would be quite vunerable?

“Cut and run” is for cowards and for those who don’t have the stomach to do what is necessary to restore order and democracy in that part of the world. The terrorists are banking on narrow minded people like you and others to allow them to continue their reign of terror and to export terror all over the world – yes, even to Canada!

Wake up, Minister Moonbat. Nothing is going to happen to Canada. Ever. No terrorist will even think about harming a Canadian citizen. Why not? Because Canada hasn’t been trying to boss around the entire world. Canada doesn’t have troops stationed in 136 countries, and all over the Middle East.

You fuck with people long enough, and you get fucked back. It’s a simple ideology for a simple mind, and yet – inexplicably – you and others of your kind don’t seem to get it. Actually, I know the explanation. It is that you are woefully ignorant of the shit that your government has perpetrated on other countries for the past century or longer. You subscribe to the IDIOTIC notion that 9/11 was unprovoked and that America has been acting in self-defense. You are highly uninformed.

“Contrary to what [President George W.] Bush says and claims - that we hate freedom - let him tell us then, Why did we not attack Sweden?'” -Bin Laden

Why not, indeed? The terrorists aren’t going to attack Sweden. Or Switzerland. Or Poland. Or Canada. On this, I’d bet a million dollars.

They’re going to come after America, the tyrant state. They’re going to come after Israel, the tyrant puppet state (although these days, it’s becoming increasingly difficult to tell the puppet apart from its master). And they’re going to go after England, the original tyrant state.

Ah, I just used the word “tyrant”. Now I can guarantee that you’ve got an itch to inject some stupid morality into this discussion. Perhaps lecture me that I should “go live somewhere else” if I consider this country to be a tyranny. I’ll save you the trouble: The country is a tyranny, but not to ME – to the people living in the Middle East.

Therefore, while I have no reason to move out, the oppressed people residing in the ME have plenty of reason to fight against the occupation. Simple, huh? You see, morality is 100% objective, because morality comes from human sources. It is entirely a human creation. There’s no universal morality that can be applied to you as well as some Arab.

Unless, of course, you want to call Darwinism a morality. And Darwinism says that you and your country are fucked. Canadians will stand by and watch the train wreck.[/quote]

Well another “Blame America First” “Dukakis Liberal” from the wonderful state of Mr. Teddy (“I hate America”) Kennedy. Wow…what a surprise.

So, “Mr. Blame America First,” what did the U.S. do to deserve the U.S.S. Cole to be hit? What the U.S. do to deserve the destruction of the World Trade Center? The Pentagon? Other forms of terror?

What do we do. We just let in illegals from all over the world to come here, get educated on our dime, get jobs, and make a better life for themselves. We give people here and all over the world the light of freedom and the hope of tomorrow. We are the largest giver of foreign aid, disaster relief, education, medical assistance, etc. etc. etc.

Yes, the U.S. is such a terrible place that everyone all over the world wants to come here.

You hate your country and your comments are a sad reminder why everyone who shares in the ideals which America was founded, must go out and vote radical liberals such as yourself out of power.

[quote]100meters wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:
vroom wrote:
doogie wrote:
Understand I still think we were right to go in. I just don’t want our troops being ordered around by the Iraqi Prime Minister to protect his friends.

Good thing the administration stopped using the phrase “stay the course” recently…

By the way, what is Canada doing to keep itself safe from terrorism? Do you even realize that if it were not for us, you people up there would be quite vunerable?

“Cut and run” is for cowards and for those who don’t have the stomach to do what is necessary to restore order and democracy in that part of the world. The terrorists are banking on narrow minded people like you and others to allow them to continue their reign of terror and to export terror all over the world – yes, even to Canada!

F**king moron pissing on the sacrafices canadian soldiers are making in afghanistan,jeebus you really are an idiot.[/quote]

Didn’t your parents teach you never to begin a sentence with a cuss word?

Another intelligent comment from the “Dukakis State.”

[quote]100meters wrote:
Hack Wilson wrote:
100meters wrote:
steveo5801 wrote:
vroom wrote:
doogie wrote:
Understand I still think we were right to go in. I just don’t want our troops being ordered around by the Iraqi Prime Minister to protect his friends.

Good thing the administration stopped using the phrase “stay the course” recently…

By the way, what is Canada doing to keep itself safe from terrorism? Do you even realize that if it were not for us, you people up there would be quite vunerable?

“Cut and run” is for cowards and for those who don’t have the stomach to do what is necessary to restore order and democracy in that part of the world. The terrorists are banking on narrow minded people like you and others to allow them to continue their reign of terror and to export terror all over the world – yes, even to Canada!

F**king moron pissing on the sacrafices canadian soldiers are making in afghanistan,jeebus you really are an idiot.

Does that same logic apply to what John Kerry said about American soldiers? Or does your empathy for the soldier only extend to those NOT wearing the American flag?

Why would that logic apply to John Kerry? Canada is fighting in afghanistan and making sacrifices. The nutjob above belittles (on purpose) that sacrifice:

“By the way, what is Canada doing to keep itself safe from terrorism? Do you even realize that if it were not for us, you people up there would be quite vunerable?”

That’s just gross.

Kerry screws up calling the president an idiot, and you pretend (painfully) that it was actually intended to demean the troops.

That’s just stupid.

Then you attack my support of the troops? Jeebus!

That’s just ironic.

[/quote]

My comments, once again, have been misconstrued. I honor all brave Canadians who are helping us in Afghanistan.

My point is that if the U.S. were not to your south giving you her protection because we are a superpower, you would have to send MANY MANY more of your people to fight or YOU (Canada) would be in serious trouble. Therefore, I take issue with Canadians who hate on America and never ever give our troops the honor they deserve.

How about it – do you honor our soldiers who are fighting to keep our hemisphere safe?

[quote]Sloth wrote:
We can’t “win” in Iraq. What we do is set the conditions for the Iraqis to win. Then we leave, but not before.[/quote]

We must win in Iraq.

[quote]steveo5801 wrote:
Sloth wrote:
We can’t “win” in Iraq. What we do is set the conditions for the Iraqis to win. Then we leave, but not before.

We must win in Iraq.[/quote]

I agree. But, I think you have to define “win.” I was making the point that we won’t be the one’s that’ll ultimately put down the insurgency. It’ll be the Iraqi forces we’ve trained up.

[quote]tme wrote:
Lorisco wrote:

It doesn’t matter how we got there now.

It most definitely sure as fuck does matter how we got where we are now.

Dick, Rummy and their crew had several years to plan this shit out, and it’s pretty inexcusable to have then managed to fuck things up this bad.

What was it Bush just said the other day about what a great job those two are doing?

Maybe I should switch sides and get appointed to some important job in this administration. Then when I fuck it all up I can go home with a Medal of Freedom from the douchebag-in-chief.

[/quote]

And this rant makes things better, how?

Blaming Bush does not fix the problem. And until you (or any other liberal) can come up with something better than “it’s all Bush’s fault”, to fix the problem, STFU!

[quote]Lorisco wrote:
And this rant makes things better, how?

Blaming Bush does not fix the problem. And until you (or any other liberal) can come up with something better than “it’s all Bush’s fault”, to fix the problem, STFU!

[/quote]

It’s called accountability, jackass.

[quote]steveo5801 wrote:
What I was trying to point out to Vroom and others who seem to show contempt for the United States…[/quote]

Steveo, you are such a tool. I have about a zillion posts where I make clear my appreciation of the country, the troops, the people there other than yourself, and so on.

[quote]Why don’t we hear Vroom and others praising the U.S. troops?
[/quote]

You’ve got a short memory as well as an inability to think logically. I have, over and over again, but this isn’t really a thread about troop pride. It’s about getting out of Iraq because the government of Iraq is now impeding US operations.

Halfwit.

[quote]Sloth wrote:
I was making the point that we won’t be the one’s that’ll ultimately put down the insurgency. It’ll be the Iraqi forces we’ve trained up.
[/quote]
I know you don’t actually see much coverage that doesn’t come from a reliable news source, but have you noticed that the militias are running the government yet?

How likely do you think it is that their government will have half a chance to impose order when their own security forces are riddled with insurgents and the militias can dictate policy?

What the US should be doing is working from the bottom up. I’ve made several threads on the concept, but so far nobody seems to get it. You can’t just drop a set of values on top of a people and have them remodel themselves into it, you have to get the people to believe in and choose a style of society.

However, I suspect the control freaks in Washington at the moment would never imagine a solution that wasn’t achieved through brute force.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, elect republicans all you want, but make sure you pick a leader that has a little better understanding of the subtleties involved, or at least available, in world affairs.

For fuck sakes, the real beauty of your military is in the threat that it carries, not the actuality of exercising that power. Ah, never mind, I might as well be talking to a wall.