[quote]BostonBarrister wrote:
Very interesting article from Newsweek from Fareed Zakaria, looking at how we should re-prioritize in order to “win” (in quotes because you need to define your objective first…):
The article doesn’t mention “win”, it says: “to avoid defeat”. Not the same thing.
I always click the link, you should know that by now.
[quote]vroom wrote:
doogie wrote:
After this crap today, I’m ready to cut and run. If our troops aren’t in control, they shouldn’t be there. If our commanders on the ground can’t do what they feel is best, it’s time to leave…
Welcome to planet Earth. Please enjoy your stay.[/quote]
Ok, then I don’t want to hear any crying after we pull out and they start killing each other. Don’t want to hear; “the children are dieing, we have to do something!”
Be very clear, if we cut and run it will be civil war and many, many, people will die. And it will go on for years.
We can’t “win” in Iraq. What we do is set the conditions for the Iraqis to win. Then we leave, but not before.
[quote]Lorisco wrote:
vroom wrote:
doogie wrote:
After this crap today, I’m ready to cut and run. If our troops aren’t in control, they shouldn’t be there. If our commanders on the ground can’t do what they feel is best, it’s time to leave…
Welcome to planet Earth. Please enjoy your stay.
Ok, then I don’t want to hear any crying after we pull out and they start killing each other. Don’t want to hear; “the children are dieing, we have to do something!”
Be very clear, if we cut and run it will be civil war and many, many, people will die. And it will go on for years.
[/quote]
But in the interest of being clearer, if we stay the course, the civil war continues and many, many, people will die. And it will go on for years.
[quote]Lorisco wrote:
Ok, then I don’t want to hear any crying after we pull out and they start killing each other. Don’t want to hear; “the children are dieing, we have to do something!”
Be very clear, if we cut and run it will be civil war and many, many, people will die. And it will go on for years.
[/quote]
I imagine somebody has already replied, but that doesn’t sound very different than now does it?
What I think is that the situation is right fucked. You can stay and sit there inside the clusterfuck or you can get out and watch the clusterfuck from the outside.
Regardless, it was still the Bush doctrine that brought it about either way, let’s not try to set up blame for people other than Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld, as they were the assclowns that brought about this disaster.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
We can’t “win” in Iraq. What we do is set the conditions for the Iraqis to win. Then we leave, but not before.[/quote]
Oh, you disagree with the administration then, which just recently claimed that republicans intend to win in Iraq?
I mean, are they in fact telling you the absolute truth when they speak or not… if not, then perhaps your absolute trust in other matters is a bit suspect.
[quote]steveo5801 wrote:
“Cut and run” is for cowards and for those who don’t have the stomach to do what is necessary to restore order and democracy in that part of the world. [/quote]
Restore democracy?
The arabs have no cultural concept of democracy, you ignorant.
And yes, sooner then later US Troops will withdraw and guys like you are gonna blame the libs.
[quote]vroom wrote:
Sloth wrote:
We can’t “win” in Iraq. What we do is set the conditions for the Iraqis to win. Then we leave, but not before.
Oh, you disagree with the administration then, which just recently claimed that republicans intend to win in Iraq?
I mean, are they in fact telling you the absolute truth when they speak or not… if not, then perhaps your absolute trust in other matters is a bit suspect.[/quote]
Sweet jesus, give me patience. I put quotation marks on “win” for a reason. I think some believe “win” translates to, no more bad guys in Iraq left alive to shoot at our troops.
Our “winning” will ultimately be done vicariously through Iraq’s security forces. That has been the plan, and is still the plan. The training of Iraqi forces, and the gradual turn over of territory (which has been the process).
So yes, we will win, if we want to. But, it’s ultimately going to be through the above.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
So yes, we will win, if we want to. But, it’s ultimately going to be through the above.
[/quote]
How many decades have you allotted for this little victory?
The signs are already in place to show that the militias are running the government and trying to help push the US out.
As well, the security forces are riddled with “double agents” who are loyal to the various militias.
Holy shit, there is a clusterfuck in the brewing and I really would rather not have to watch it happen. We all want the same thing, but have you ever heard the phrase “you can’t get there from here”?
Why do you think “stay the course” is no longer in the President’s vocabulary anyway? They are getting ready for a serious shift after the election… because to do it before the election would give the democrats ammunition for the election – even if only by massive media coverage of the apparent about face.
Of course, they’ll certainly try to blame it on the dems if they do manage to grab hold of any power in washington.
[quote]Lorisco wrote:
vroom wrote:
doogie wrote:
After this crap today, I’m ready to cut and run. If our troops aren’t in control, they shouldn’t be there. If our commanders on the ground can’t do what they feel is best, it’s time to leave…
Welcome to planet Earth. Please enjoy your stay.
Ok, then I don’t want to hear any crying after we pull out and they start killing each other. Don’t want to hear; “the children are dieing, we have to do something!”
Be very clear, if we cut and run it will be civil war and many, many, people will die. And it will go on for years.
[/quote]
Huh?
It already is a civil war and women and children are already dying.
[quote]nephorm wrote:
Marmadogg wrote:
I live more than 60 miles from the nearest oil refinery in NJ while Doogie has stated that he can smell them from his front door.
…swing and a miss…
Don’t spoil good jokes with your silly “truth” and “reality.”
On the bright side, I hear that in New Jersey, people are evolving… babies are actually being born with a teflon coating.[/quote]
Quality!! RFLMAO!!
[quote]Wreckless wrote:
But if you insist, do we have to evacuate all the Americans? There’s a few that I want there when it gets nuked.[/quote]
First, swift boat vets are ‘lying whores’ and now you want to nuke ‘a few Texans’?
Look, I realize you hate us for turning back the Nazis at the Battle of the Bulge (my old man was there, in your own little Belgium), but this pathological hatred of Americans must stop.
[quote]Wreckless wrote:
BostonBarrister wrote:
Very interesting article from Newsweek from Fareed Zakaria, looking at how we should re-prioritize in order to “win” (in quotes because you need to define your objective first…):
The article doesn’t mention “win”, it says: “to avoid defeat”. Not the same thing.
I always click the link, you should know that by now.[/quote]
[quote]vroom wrote:
Lorisco wrote:
Ok, then I don’t want to hear any crying after we pull out and they start killing each other. Don’t want to hear; “the children are dieing, we have to do something!”
Be very clear, if we cut and run it will be civil war and many, many, people will die. And it will go on for years.
I imagine somebody has already replied, but that doesn’t sound very different than now does it?
What I think is that the situation is right fucked. You can stay and sit there inside the clusterfuck or you can get out and watch the clusterfuck from the outside.
Regardless, it was still the Bush doctrine that brought it about either way, let’s not try to set up blame for people other than Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld, as they were the assclowns that brought about this disaster.
[/quote]
I never knew that GW and company were dictators, and could start a war at their whim. Cool info…
This thread seems pettier than most, but alas I am responding to. Cuting and running is just stupid, you can’t fix a mistake with another mistake. We need to finish what we started, though the premise of what we started was dumb. Leaving a cess pool in which to breed terrorists, or “freedom fighters” ( for those who aggree with and support the killing of innocent people because “Isreal done bad things too”).
I don’t like that we’re in Iraq and wish we never went, but now that we are there we have to leave it some-what stable. War is nasty and people die, that sucks but every war I have ever heard of was that way.
[quote]Beowolf wrote:
Exactly! If it weren’t for America stirring up so much hate, the terrorists might notice that Canadians have WAY more freedom than us![/quote]
Really? Could you provide a few examples of ways in which we’re “way more” free?
[quote]pookie wrote:
Beowolf wrote:
Exactly! If it weren’t for America stirring up so much hate, the terrorists might notice that Canadians have WAY more freedom than us!
Really? Could you provide a few examples of ways in which we’re “way more” free?
[/quote]
Hate speech laws, for instance. Oh, wait…
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
vroom wrote:
Lorisco wrote:
Ok, then I don’t want to hear any crying after we pull out and they start killing each other. Don’t want to hear; “the children are dieing, we have to do something!”
Be very clear, if we cut and run it will be civil war and many, many, people will die. And it will go on for years.
I imagine somebody has already replied, but that doesn’t sound very different than now does it?
What I think is that the situation is right fucked. You can stay and sit there inside the clusterfuck or you can get out and watch the clusterfuck from the outside.
Regardless, it was still the Bush doctrine that brought it about either way, let’s not try to set up blame for people other than Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld, as they were the assclowns that brought about this disaster.
I never knew that GW and company were dictators, and could start a war at their whim. Cool info…
[/quote]
How predictable, their clowns are already looking to shift the blame.
These are the “tough men”, the “straight talking cowboys”, the “good Christian men” that would “restore honor in the White House”.
Now they say: “it wasn’t me mommy, it was those evil libs. They made me do it mommy”.
You’re a tool HH.
[quote]nephorm wrote:
pookie wrote:
Beowolf wrote:
Exactly! If it weren’t for America stirring up so much hate, the terrorists might notice that Canadians have WAY more freedom than us!
Really? Could you provide a few examples of ways in which we’re “way more” free?
Hate speech laws, for instance. Oh, wait…[/quote]
Agreed, you’re free from hate speech.
Also, you can send your kids to school without having to worry to much that some sicko just bought himself a nice semi-automatic at the shopping-mall.
I’d say that’s freedom.
[quote]Wreckless wrote:
Hate speech laws, for instance. Oh, wait…
Agreed, you’re free from hate speech.
Also, you can send your kids to school without having to worry to much that some sicko just bought himself a nice semi-automatic at the shopping-mall.
I’d say that’s freedom.[/quote]
Umm, not exactly: