Sorry Mak:
and
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
So you’re saying only the dumbest Kiwis leave and that the dumbest Kiwi is smarter than the average Aussi? Interesting.[/quote]
Oh this goes back years.
[quote]Cameron_Phillips wrote:
Sorry Mak:
[removed for space]
and
[removed for space]
[/quote]
Fucking gold!
LOL
[quote]Petermus wrote:
I can see how some people would want to separate his illegal status and the accident.Being illegal doesn’t make you necessarily a bad person, the majority of the time it is out of desperation and they are perfectly good people who adhere to the typical american dream. legal status does play a role because he legally shouldn’t be here, if he wasn’t then it wouldn’t of happened.[/quote]
How would you know if the “majority” are perfectly good people?
But yes, the point of this post is that if the person had been stopped at the border the accident would not have occurred.
[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]ephrem wrote:
[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:
[quote]ephrem wrote:
…that is true, however, i wasn’t talking about immigration from non-Schengen countries…
[/quote]
how very exclusive of you. It even says in the article that:
Under the new rules, even someone seeking to immigrate to the Netherlands as a spouse will have to pass the language and culture exam. If they fail, they will not get a visa.
I cannot imagine the riots that would happen here if we made people have to pass a language exam.
Do you have any idea how many languages the government and public agencies must have available for their forms?[/quote]
…it was the subject at hand. I can’t help it if you change the topic, so don’t blame me for any confusion. Do you want to discuss immigration from Schengen countries, as in, workers are allowed to migrate freely within a large European zone, or do you want to discuss immigration of people from outside of the Euro-zone?[/quote]
We want to discuss illegal immigration. [/quote]
That was my bad. I didn’t ask him about illegal immigration. But reading up on the Netherlands and the countries in the European Union, they still have to have passports or visas to cross borders.
ephrem did make it sound as if there is no illegal immigration in Europe.
[/quote]
…people from ‘Schengen’ countries can travel freely to and from any country within the ‘Schengen-pact’. You do need i.d. and for most that’s a passport:
…do you merely close your borders to prevent illegal immigrantion, or do you also crack down on those nationals who employ illegal immigrants? If there’s no work to do, who’d come?
[quote]ephrem wrote:
[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:
[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]ephrem wrote:
[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:
[quote]ephrem wrote:
…that is true, however, i wasn’t talking about immigration from non-Schengen countries…
[/quote]
how very exclusive of you. It even says in the article that:
Under the new rules, even someone seeking to immigrate to the Netherlands as a spouse will have to pass the language and culture exam. If they fail, they will not get a visa.
I cannot imagine the riots that would happen here if we made people have to pass a language exam.
Do you have any idea how many languages the government and public agencies must have available for their forms?[/quote]
…it was the subject at hand. I can’t help it if you change the topic, so don’t blame me for any confusion. Do you want to discuss immigration from Schengen countries, as in, workers are allowed to migrate freely within a large European zone, or do you want to discuss immigration of people from outside of the Euro-zone?[/quote]
We want to discuss illegal immigration. [/quote]
That was my bad. I didn’t ask him about illegal immigration. But reading up on the Netherlands and the countries in the European Union, they still have to have passports or visas to cross borders.
ephrem did make it sound as if there is no illegal immigration in Europe.
[/quote]
…people from ‘Schengen’ countries can travel freely to and from any country within the ‘Schengen-pact’. You do need i.d. and for most that’s a passport:
[/quote]
Understandable and a good policy. Part of the outrage here is that people feel it is insulting and unconstitutional to demand someone prove they are in the country legally. Which is just freaking crazy to me.
[quote]ephrem wrote:
…do you merely close your borders to prevent illegal immigrantion, or do you also crack down on those nationals who employ illegal immigrants? If there’s no work to do, who’d come?[/quote]
Sure they do. Here is San Diego they actually closed down one of our more expensive restaurants for using illegal labor. The problem is you have to have someone report the company because there is no money to employ extra personnel to go business to business verifying employment.
I hope you don’t think, that I think enforcement would ever be 100%? I just want better enforcement now.
[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:
[quote]ephrem wrote:
…do you merely close your borders to prevent illegal immigrantion, or do you also crack down on those nationals who employ illegal immigrants? If there’s no work to do, who’d come?[/quote]
Understandable and a good policy. Part of the outrage here is that people feel it is insulting and unconstitutional to demand someone prove they are in the country legally. Which is just freaking crazy to me.
Sure they do. Here is San Diego they actually closed down one of our more expensive restaurants for using illegal labor. The problem is you have to have someone report the company because there is no money to employ extra personnel to go business to business verifying employment.
I hope you don’t think, that I think enforcement would ever be 100%? I just want better enforcement now.
[/quote]
…that’s a matter of scale and culture, isn’t it? It’s easy to enter the country and to disappear off the grid due to that. Just like the war on drugs, which can’t be won, why try to legislate and enforce something you [as a country] don’t have to means or the manpower to do?
…i realise Mexico is in trouble right now, with the cartels and entire cities becoming virtual no-go areas, but the definition of crazy, trying something that has failed over and over again in the hopes it will work eventually, applies here. You need to come up with something else, and a north-american economic commonwealth is one solution…
[quote]ephrem wrote:
[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:
[quote]ephrem wrote:
…do you merely close your borders to prevent illegal immigrantion, or do you also crack down on those nationals who employ illegal immigrants? If there’s no work to do, who’d come?[/quote]
Understandable and a good policy. Part of the outrage here is that people feel it is insulting and unconstitutional to demand someone prove they are in the country legally. Which is just freaking crazy to me.
Sure they do. Here is San Diego they actually closed down one of our more expensive restaurants for using illegal labor. The problem is you have to have someone report the company because there is no money to employ extra personnel to go business to business verifying employment.
I hope you don’t think, that I think enforcement would ever be 100%? I just want better enforcement now.
[/quote]
…that’s a matter of scale and culture, isn’t it? It’s easy to enter the country and to disappear off the grid due to that. Just like the war on drugs, which can’t be won, why try to legislate and enforce something you [as a country] don’t have to means or the manpower to do?
…i realise Mexico is in trouble right now, with the cartels and entire cities becoming virtual no-go areas, but the definition of crazy, trying something that has failed over and over again in the hopes it will work eventually, applies here. You need to come up with something else, and a north-american economic commonwealth is one solution…[/quote]
No.
Every problem can be solved with more guns and government control.
Its the American way.
[quote]Chushin wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]ephrem wrote:
[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:
[quote]ephrem wrote:
…do you merely close your borders to prevent illegal immigrantion, or do you also crack down on those nationals who employ illegal immigrants? If there’s no work to do, who’d come?[/quote]
Understandable and a good policy. Part of the outrage here is that people feel it is insulting and unconstitutional to demand someone prove they are in the country legally. Which is just freaking crazy to me.
Sure they do. Here is San Diego they actually closed down one of our more expensive restaurants for using illegal labor. The problem is you have to have someone report the company because there is no money to employ extra personnel to go business to business verifying employment.
I hope you don’t think, that I think enforcement would ever be 100%? I just want better enforcement now.
[/quote]
…that’s a matter of scale and culture, isn’t it? It’s easy to enter the country and to disappear off the grid due to that. Just like the war on drugs, which can’t be won, why try to legislate and enforce something you [as a country] don’t have to means or the manpower to do?
…i realise Mexico is in trouble right now, with the cartels and entire cities becoming virtual no-go areas, but the definition of crazy, trying something that has failed over and over again in the hopes it will work eventually, applies here. You need to come up with something else, and a north-american economic commonwealth is one solution…[/quote]
No.
Every problem can be solved with more guns and government control.
Its the American way.
[/quote]
You’re a bigot hiding behind a sophomoric philosophy.[/quote]
Even if I was you could not tell.
[quote]ephrem wrote:
[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:
[quote]ephrem wrote:
…do you merely close your borders to prevent illegal immigrantion, or do you also crack down on those nationals who employ illegal immigrants? If there’s no work to do, who’d come?[/quote]
Understandable and a good policy. Part of the outrage here is that people feel it is insulting and unconstitutional to demand someone prove they are in the country legally. Which is just freaking crazy to me.
Sure they do. Here is San Diego they actually closed down one of our more expensive restaurants for using illegal labor. The problem is you have to have someone report the company because there is no money to employ extra personnel to go business to business verifying employment.
I hope you don’t think, that I think enforcement would ever be 100%? I just want better enforcement now.
[/quote]
…that’s a matter of scale and culture, isn’t it? It’s easy to enter the country and to disappear off the grid due to that. Just like the war on drugs, which can’t be won, why try to legislate and enforce something you [as a country] don’t have to means or the manpower to do?
…i realise Mexico is in trouble right now, with the cartels and entire cities becoming virtual no-go areas, but the definition of crazy, trying something that has failed over and over again in the hopes it will work eventually, applies here. You need to come up with something else, and a north-american economic commonwealth is one solution…[/quote]
ephrem I am not sure you know exactly how we protect our borders. We have not used the military. We have not completed a barrier, we have never completely closed off our borders or had high presence of personnel on the border to stop illegals from entering.
Also, we civilian law enforcement has been restricted in their abilities to inquire about a suspects citizenship. So this would be new.
Getting rid of anchor baby status, like in Europe, that would be new.
Stopping benefits for those who cannot prove a legal right to be here, that would be new.
So, this is new. Your solution would be nothing more then opening up the US to be fiscally raped by Mexico.
[quote]ephrem wrote:
and a north-american economic commonwealth is one solution…[/quote]
Are you serious?
What needs to be done, is to napalm the areas with cartels and start over. These are people who kill politicians, murder innocent bystanders, and boil people in acid who either get in the way willingly or not during their drug sales. In Juarez, they found the face of a man sewn onto a soccer ball, he was an informant for law enforcement.
These are not kumbaya people, they are not willing to be reasoned with. They do not negotiate, they simply do as they wish. They pay people off, or outright kill them if they conflict with their interests.
I say, cut the subtle bullshit, and drop an artillery strike on their asses. Fuck it, there is nothing further to be lost, it is downright anarchy down there.
…why is that, do you think?
…civilian law enforcement? That does not mean the police, right? Are you suggesting that any civilian should be able to ask another person to identify themselves?
[quote]Getting rid of anchor baby status, like in Europe, that would be new.
Stopping benefits for those who cannot prove a legal right to be here, that would be new.
So, this is new. Your solution would be nothing more then opening up the US to be fiscally raped by Mexico.[/quote]
…if those illegal workers start paying income tax, insurance and become responsible by law for their actions, how is that rape exactly?
[quote]IrishSteel wrote:
[quote]ephrem wrote:
and a north-american economic commonwealth is one solution…[/quote]
Are you serious?[/quote]
Yes.
[quote]ephrem wrote:
[quote]IrishSteel wrote:
[quote]ephrem wrote:
and a north-american economic commonwealth is one solution…[/quote]
Are you serious?[/quote]
Yes.
[/quote]
Based on what? - because the European economic union has worked out so well?
Why is a failed experiment the panacea for American immigration policy?
[quote]ephrem wrote:
…if those illegal workers start paying income tax…[/quote]
If you think for even a second that the balance will favor tax revenue as opposed to tax consumption, you shouldn’t even be part of this discussion. But, that is the goal here, isn’t it? A massively increased, governmentally dependent voting bloc. Democratic Socialism. As opposed to the libertarian who wishes to simply overwhelm and destroy social services (naively hoping for laissez-faire to step in), others would use them to not only lock in present services, but also set an irreversible ground work for a central planning-redistributive state. If you’re own citizens still aren’t going for such governance whole-heartedly, replace them. Instead of citizenss electing new representatives, it’ll be politicians electing a new citizenry.