[quote]ephrem wrote:
…if those illegal workers start paying income tax…[/quote]
If you think for even a second that the balance will favor tax revenue as opposed to tax consumption, you shouldn’t even be part of this discussion. But, that is the goal here, isn’t it? A massively increased, governmentally dependent voting bloc. Democratic Socialism. As opposed to the libertarian who wishes to simply overwhelm and destroy social services (naively hoping for laissez-faire to step in), others would use them to not only lock in present services, but also set an irreversible ground work for a central planning-redistributive state. If you’re own citizens still aren’t going for such governance whole-heartedly, replace them. Instead of citizenss electing new representatives, it’ll be politicians electing a new citizenry.[/quote]
…no, they can’t vote. They will not become US citizens. I’m sorry if that wasn’t clear, and i realise i didn’t make that clear, but in Europe that isn’t the case either: you can come and work, you pay taxes, insurance and all that, but you are not a citizen and do not get to vote…
[quote]ephrem wrote:
…if those illegal workers start paying income tax…[/quote]
If you think for even a second that the balance will favor tax revenue as opposed to tax consumption, you shouldn’t even be part of this discussion. But, that is the goal here, isn’t it? A massively increased, governmentally dependent voting bloc. Democratic Socialism. As opposed to the libertarian who wishes to simply overwhelm and destroy social services (naively hoping for laissez-faire to step in), others would use them to not only lock in present services, but also set an irreversible ground work for a central planning-redistributive state. If you’re own citizens still aren’t going for such governance whole-heartedly, replace them. Instead of citizenss electing new representatives, it’ll be politicians electing a new citizenry.[/quote]
…no, they can’t vote. They will not become US citizens. I’m sorry if that wasn’t clear, and i realise i didn’t make that clear, but in Europe that isn’t the case either: you can come and work, you pay taxes, insurance and all that, but you are not a citizen and do not get to vote…
[/quote]
That wouldn’t last long at all. See the San Fran thread. See the continued push for amnesty. A great big bloc of governmentally dependent people? Politicians who need votes for their agenda? Disaster. We already have people who can move about freely. They’re called citizens and/or people already legally in this country. Sorry, if we don’t wish to emulate your precious graying and barren Europe. Europe has far bigger problems than our immigration laws. Get to work.
You know what I find odd? The left is perhaps the most vocal opponent in regards to exploiting the resources of poor/underdeveloped/3rd nations. And both the anti-interventionist left and right are vehemently opposed to the US muscling in and trying to restructure the socio-polito-economic structure of these nations as we see best.
Yet, they are willing to steal away, through ‘unfair’ capitalistic competition, the one resource conciously capable of changing/building such nations from within…
Citizens do the same things, why is his citizenship even an issue? Furthermore I would bet citizens do such actions at a higher percentage than the “illegal immigrants”.
Because America has a policy of not imposing Martial Law on the people except for times of extreme crisis. That includes the borders. The military is to be used on outside forces, but American citizens also use the border. So I am looking forward to a change.
[quote]
…civilian law enforcement? That does not mean the police, right? Are you suggesting that any civilian should be able to ask another person to identify themselves?[/quote]
no, civilian meaning non-military such as our police force. Here in America we do have the right to make a citizen’s arrest.
Are you unaware that people can immigrate to America legally? America has set a limit to how many new citizens can be absorbed a year. Fiscal factors play into how many will come into the system. So … uhmmm… there you go. That answered your paying taxes remark.
I appreciate you are trying to look at so many sides of the issue, but I don’t think you have a real picture of how it is.
How do you folks deal with an estimated 3 million illegal immigrants in what would be your state? Now factor that in with all of the LEGAL immigrants that your state is also absorbing.
How does your little country, which, true, is about 1/5th the size of my state of California, but how do you deal with 600,000 illegal immigrants along with your legal immigrants?
And I am betting you don’t have 600,000 illegal immigrants rushing your border.
[quote]Deorum wrote:
Citizens do the same things, why is his citizenship even an issue? Furthermore I would bet citizens do such actions at a higher percentage than the “illegal immigrants”. [/quote]
Really? could you cite where you found that statistic?
I think you are guessing, and you probably don’t live in a state bordering Mexico. First, every illegal alien is a criminal. Not every American is a criminal. Absolute fact.
His being a border jumper is an issue because if but for the fact that he had entered the country illegally, he would not have been present to commit the crime.
Guessing? I was betting. Can you not read? I will put money down on what I said. No statistic was given. If he entered the country legally the same thing would have happened. His method of entering the country is a no-issue and you basically stated that yourself.
Furthermore you elaborated that your location in the country puts you at an extreme bias against these people who come here to actually add to our economy and fucking work, something the people who lost their jobs to these people were evidently not willing to do.
[quote]Deorum wrote:
Guessing? I was betting. Can you not read? I will put money down on what I said. No statistic was given. If he entered the country legally the same thing would have happened. His method of entering the country is a no-issue and you basically stated that yourself.
Furthermore you elaborated that your location in the country puts you at an extreme bias against these people who come here to actually add to our economy and fucking work, something the people who lost their jobs to these people were evidently not willing to do. [/quote]
You really don’t know and are just guessing.
You don’t know anything about the situation or you would know that every border jumper is a criminal and many of them commit crimes against the citizens of the United States. The myth that they are noble people searching for a better life, is a myth. Right along with every Native American being a noble savage.
You’ve also never been in an area where these people are working or you would know that yes, the people of the community do those jobs also. The thing is, many of these do the jobs but get paid much less. That is it. All economics.
[quote]Deorum wrote:
Guessing? I was betting. Can you not read? I will put money down on what I said. No statistic was given. If he entered the country legally the same thing would have happened. His method of entering the country is a no-issue and you basically stated that yourself.
Furthermore you elaborated that your location in the country puts you at an extreme bias against these people who come here to actually add to our economy and fucking work, something the people who lost their jobs to these people were evidently not willing to do. [/quote]
Jobs people were not willing to do? More like wages people were not willing to accept.
If came legally, he would most likely not have been there, as it takes years to get legalized rather than jumping a border in a matter of days or weeks.
Wrong on every count. I’ve been there seen them and know many personally. You are speaking out of your ass on every point. Furthermore you cannot read because I have had to tell you three times now that I am BETTING. They say that a retard is defined by not being able to learn something despite being taught multiple times…
[quote]Deorum wrote:
Guessing? I was betting. Can you not read? I will put money down on what I said. No statistic was given. If he entered the country legally the same thing would have happened. His method of entering the country is a no-issue and you basically stated that yourself.
Furthermore you elaborated that your location in the country puts you at an extreme bias against these people who come here to actually add to our economy and fucking work, something the people who lost their jobs to these people were evidently not willing to do. [/quote]
Jobs people were not willing to do? More like wages people were not willing to accept.
If came legally, he would most likely not have been there, as it takes years to get legalized rather than jumping a border in a matter of days or weeks.
Get out of here with that weak shit. [/quote]
What ever happened to a free economy? Go to Russia with that shit. If anyone is willing to accept a pay then it is economically beneficial to pay them just that. Your absurd thinking is what is causing American companies to outsource all jobs and rely on illegal immigrants in the first place. Let me tell you something, the minimum wage does NOT help the people - despite whatever misconception you have.
One of the more popular claims by illegal immigration proponents is that those who enter the U.S. by breaking the law are invariably “hard-working” and “law-abiding” once they get here.
That argument, however, has one major flaw. According to Justice Department statistics and the analysis of immigration experts, the “law-abiding” claim often isn’t true.
As Investors Business Daily reported in March 2005:
“The U.S. Justice Department estimated that 270,000 illegal immigrants served jail time nationally in 2003. Of those, 108,000 were in California. Some estimates show illegals now make up half of California’s prison population, creating a massive criminal subculture that strains state budgets and creates a nightmare for local police forces.”
Citing an Urban Institute study, director of research for the Center for Immigration Studies Steven Camorata noted in 2004: “Roughly 17 percent of the prison population at the federal level are illegal aliens. That’s a huge number since illegal aliens only account for about 3 percent of the total population.”
Former California Gov. Pete Wilson places the percentage of illegal aliens in U.S. prisons even higher. In 2001, he told Fox News Channel’s Bill O’Reilly:
“We had problems related to the costs of educating children who were acknowledged to be in the country illegally, healthcare costs. One in five in our prison population were illegal immigrants who had been convicted of a felony after entering the country illegally.”
The Federation for American Immigration Reform also turned to the Justice Department to get statistics on criminal aliens. They report:
"In March 2000, Congress made public Department of Justice statistics showing that, over the previous five years, the INS had released over 35,000 criminal aliens instead of deporting them. Over 11,000 of those released went on to commit serious crimes, over 1,800 of which were violent ones [including 98 homicides, 142 sexual assaults, and 44 kidnappings].
“In 2001, thanks to a decision by the Supreme Court, the INS was forced to release into our society over 3,000 criminal aliens [who collectively had been convicted of 125 homicides, 387 sex offenses, and 772 assault charges].”
[b]Up to a third of the U.S. federal prison population is composed of non-citizens, according to Federal Bureau of Prisons statistics - but not all non-citizen prison inmates are illegal aliens.
As to the “hard-working” claim, CIS notes: “The proportion of immigrant-headed households using at least one major welfare program is 24.5 percent compared to 16.3 percent for native households.”
Investor’s Business Daily concurs: “Once [illegals] get here, they are 50 percent more likely to be on welfare than citizens.”[/b]
[quote]Deorum wrote:
Wrong on every count. I’ve been there seen them and know many personally. You are speaking out of your ass on every point. Furthermore you cannot read because I have had to tell you three times now that I am BETTING. They say that a retard is defined by not being able to learn something despite being taught multiple times…[/quote]
A bet is based on an uncertainty, meaning, you are guessing you know. Yah,… you are ignorant.
I am not wrong on every count, but you are showing yourself off to be one of those types that thinks if they shout louder, get more hostile, and ignore facts, that you can bullshit your way to making people believe you.
Who do you know? How do you know them?
What exactly am I wrong about. Tell me how I am wrong, then back it up.
Ignore facts? I presented facts and have yet to even show more than a mere passing fancy in this topic. I am simply interjecting an economic and furthermore unbiased viewpoint into this shit throwing storm led by resident white broad in the ghetto mexicano neighborhood.
It is not economically beneficial to our country to outsource jobs and to have an economy solely based off of fiat trading. Without actually producing goods our false economy will collapse, as evident by the current economic situation.
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
LOL, so if the Chinese do “the jobs Americans won’t do” for 50 cents an hour, will you bitch ? Because believe me they will.
Do you realize you are promoting slavery? Your ideas actually encourage it. [/quote]
I am promoting a free economy - exactly what this country was built on. What you are encouraging is the Marxist philosophies that have been destroying our economy and driving it into its eventual collapse.
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
LOL, so if the Chinese do “the jobs Americans won’t do” for 50 cents an hour, will you bitch ? Because believe me they will.
Do you realize you are promoting slavery? Your ideas actually encourage it. [/quote]
I am promoting a free economy - exactly what this country was built on. What you are encouraging is the Marxist philosophies that have been destroying our economy and driving it into its eventual collapse. [/quote]
Are you high?
I am promoting Marxism? I am promoting legal citizens being given priority over illegal aliens who do not belong here. I also cannot believe that you would support such a racist regime that Mexico has.
If I break into your home and steal all your shit, is that free economy? I mean, that is truly free isn’t it? How about if I rob from you, free economy? Steal your car? Still free?
Our country was built on free markets, not free economy. Markets keeping prices competitive. Your idea would eliminate the middle class, and widen the gap between rich and poor, great job. By the way, do you remember when people were in the streets rioting for bread in your beloved Russia LOL? I can’t believe you would quote Russia’s system as for us to follow, did you get the memo, they collapsed.