[quote]MaximusB wrote:
I thought they came for jobs and a better life. I thought they came to work as dishwashers, landscapers, and construction workers. [/quote]
They do. And a lot of them end up owning their own businesses in the long run.[/quote]
That seems like a very sweeping statement. Some do, most don’t.
There is a legal way to pursue the American Dream, or even as more likely occurs, a legal way to join the rat race on a treadmill and make do, so do it legally.
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
I thought they came for jobs and a better life. I thought they came to work as dishwashers, landscapers, and construction workers. [/quote]
They do. And a lot of them end up owning their own businesses in the long run.[/quote]
That seems like a very sweeping statement. Some do, most don’t.
There is a legal way to pursue the American Dream, or even as more likely occurs, a legal way to join the rat race on a treadmill and make do, so do it legally.
[/quote]
Are you upsat because they do not do it “legally” or because they do not “join you in the rat race” ?
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
I thought they came for jobs and a better life. I thought they came to work as dishwashers, landscapers, and construction workers. [/quote]
They do. And a lot of them end up owning their own businesses in the long run.[/quote]
That seems like a very sweeping statement. Some do, most don’t.
There is a legal way to pursue the American Dream, or even as more likely occurs, a legal way to join the rat race on a treadmill and make do, so do it legally.
[/quote]
Are you upsat because they do not do it “legally” or because they do not “join you in the rat race” ?
[/quote]
I’m not sure upset is the right word.
My issue is that it is not done legally. When I said what I did about the rat race I was remarking that unfortunately the majority of people here are not living the lives that they had envisioned. I was not saying they had to join the rat race.
[quote]ephrem wrote:
…make the whole north-american continent one economic entity where workers can migrate freely between nations. Problem solved…[/quote]
Does Holland allow for a lot of immigration and extension of benefits to non-citizens?[/quote]
…if you are talking about worker-migration from people within the Euro-zone [Schengen agreement] then it’s not a question of allowing; they can come as they please and look for work. If a foreign worker from a Schengen country is gainfully employed s/he enjoyes the same benefits as a dutch national. Mosttimes such workers are temp workers though, and there’s even been cases where dutch farmers exploited [polish] workers turning them into virtual slaves…
[/quote]
well then what is up with this article?
EU: Netherlands Leading Trend To More Stringent Immigration Rules
If you don’t speak Dutch, and the thought of nude beaches or homosexual marriage makes you uncomfortable, then the Netherlands is not for you. That’s the message from Dutch immigration authorities, who have just instituted some of Europe’s most stringent requirements for would-be immigrants. Several other European states are following suit, as European politicians react to growing anti-immigration sentiment among voters.
PRAGUE, April 5, 2006 (RFE/RL) – Dutch Immigration Minister Rita Verdonk says there are over 600,000 people in her country who don’t speak proper Dutch and are mostly unemployed.
Verdonk argues that the Netherlands can no longer afford to welcome immigrants who will not integrate into mainstream society, which is why she has advocated a new restrictive visa system. (I just cut and pasted the first couple of paragraphs.)
[/quote]
…that is true, however, i wasn’t talking about immigration from non-Schengen countries…
[quote]ephrem wrote:
…make the whole north-american continent one economic entity where workers can migrate freely between nations. Problem solved…[/quote]
Does Holland allow for a lot of immigration and extension of benefits to non-citizens?[/quote]
…if you are talking about worker-migration from people within the Euro-zone [Schengen agreement] then it’s not a question of allowing; they can come as they please and look for work. If a foreign worker from a Schengen country is gainfully employed s/he enjoyes the same benefits as a dutch national. Mosttimes such workers are temp workers though, and there’s even been cases where dutch farmers exploited [polish] workers turning them into virtual slaves…
[/quote]
well then what is up with this article?
EU: Netherlands Leading Trend To More Stringent Immigration Rules
If you don’t speak Dutch, and the thought of nude beaches or homosexual marriage makes you uncomfortable, then the Netherlands is not for you. That’s the message from Dutch immigration authorities, who have just instituted some of Europe’s most stringent requirements for would-be immigrants. Several other European states are following suit, as European politicians react to growing anti-immigration sentiment among voters.
PRAGUE, April 5, 2006 (RFE/RL) – Dutch Immigration Minister Rita Verdonk says there are over 600,000 people in her country who don’t speak proper Dutch and are mostly unemployed.
Verdonk argues that the Netherlands can no longer afford to welcome immigrants who will not integrate into mainstream society, which is why she has advocated a new restrictive visa system. (I just cut and pasted the first couple of paragraphs.)
[/quote]
…that is true, however, i wasn’t talking about immigration from non-Schengen countries…
[/quote]
how very exclusive of you. It even says in the article that:
Under the new rules, even someone seeking to immigrate to the Netherlands as a spouse will have to pass the language and culture exam. If they fail, they will not get a visa.
I cannot imagine the riots that would happen here if we made people have to pass a language exam.
Do you have any idea how many languages the government and public agencies must have available for their forms?
[quote]ephrem wrote:
…that is true, however, i wasn’t talking about immigration from non-Schengen countries…
[/quote]
how very exclusive of you. It even says in the article that:
Under the new rules, even someone seeking to immigrate to the Netherlands as a spouse will have to pass the language and culture exam. If they fail, they will not get a visa.
I cannot imagine the riots that would happen here if we made people have to pass a language exam.
Do you have any idea how many languages the government and public agencies must have available for their forms?[/quote]
…it was the subject at hand. I can’t help it if you change the topic, so don’t blame me for any confusion. Do you want to discuss immigration from Schengen countries, as in, workers are allowed to migrate freely within a large European zone, or do you want to discuss immigration of people from outside of the Euro-zone?
[quote]ephrem wrote:
…that is true, however, i wasn’t talking about immigration from non-Schengen countries…
[/quote]
how very exclusive of you. It even says in the article that:
Under the new rules, even someone seeking to immigrate to the Netherlands as a spouse will have to pass the language and culture exam. If they fail, they will not get a visa.
I cannot imagine the riots that would happen here if we made people have to pass a language exam.
Do you have any idea how many languages the government and public agencies must have available for their forms?[/quote]
…it was the subject at hand. I can’t help it if you change the topic, so don’t blame me for any confusion. Do you want to discuss immigration from Schengen countries, as in, workers are allowed to migrate freely within a large European zone, or do you want to discuss immigration of people from outside of the Euro-zone?[/quote]
Neither really, I was just pointing out that you really do not have this completely free and open border system as you suggested you do. It reads to me that it is even harder for someone to emigrate to the Netherlands than here. Although I did read in there that there are some countries, including that US, that have it a bit easier.
I am not in favor of the idea of having an open border with Mexico at the current time. Perhaps if Mexico were to improve its economy it would be something to be considered, but right now they would be an even bigger drain on our rapidly shrinking finances.
[quote]ephrem wrote:
…that is true, however, i wasn’t talking about immigration from non-Schengen countries…
[/quote]
how very exclusive of you. It even says in the article that:
Under the new rules, even someone seeking to immigrate to the Netherlands as a spouse will have to pass the language and culture exam. If they fail, they will not get a visa.
I cannot imagine the riots that would happen here if we made people have to pass a language exam.
Do you have any idea how many languages the government and public agencies must have available for their forms?[/quote]
…it was the subject at hand. I can’t help it if you change the topic, so don’t blame me for any confusion. Do you want to discuss immigration from Schengen countries, as in, workers are allowed to migrate freely within a large European zone, or do you want to discuss immigration of people from outside of the Euro-zone?[/quote]
[quote]ephrem wrote:
…that is true, however, i wasn’t talking about immigration from non-Schengen countries…
[/quote]
how very exclusive of you. It even says in the article that:
Under the new rules, even someone seeking to immigrate to the Netherlands as a spouse will have to pass the language and culture exam. If they fail, they will not get a visa.
I cannot imagine the riots that would happen here if we made people have to pass a language exam.
Do you have any idea how many languages the government and public agencies must have available for their forms?[/quote]
…it was the subject at hand. I can’t help it if you change the topic, so don’t blame me for any confusion. Do you want to discuss immigration from Schengen countries, as in, workers are allowed to migrate freely within a large European zone, or do you want to discuss immigration of people from outside of the Euro-zone?[/quote]
We want to discuss illegal immigration. [/quote]
That was my bad. I didn’t ask him about illegal immigration. But reading up on the Netherlands and the countries in the European Union, they still have to have passports or visas to cross borders.
ephrem did make it sound as if there is no illegal immigration in Europe.
Luciano Melendres If Luciano Melendres had been deported to Mexico following his 2006 arrest for driving drunk â?? or even if a judge last week hadn’t suspended his six-month jail sentence and given him 12 months probation â?? Dacus Lamont Sims, 32, would be alive today.
As it is, Melendres is back in jail for a second offense, this time charged with DWI, felony hit-and-run, driving with a license revoked, not having insurance and a registration violation, the Charlotte, North Carolina, Observer reported.
Sims, who was hit while crossing a Charlotte street earlier this week, died at the scene.
Melendres continued to a friend’s home and was found because a driver who saw the accident followed his car and contacted police. The illegal alien, who has lived and worked in North Carolina for at least 13 months, denied involvement when questioned by officers.
The article goes on to list and summarize the events wherein 16 illegal aliens killed people while driving drunk.
This is why every single jail should have to check the status of everyone booked in the jail. This shit has gotten out of hand. I can’t believe a soldier who survives a tour in Iraq is killed by a drunk illegal alien.
[quote]orion wrote:
btw we have 20 % foreigners in Vienna, 1/3 of all people in Vienna have parents that were not born in Vienna.
So I guess I know what I am talking about after all.
[/quote]
No you don’t. 24% of all the people in Australia were born overseas. In our capital cities the % is much much higher. And I can still see that the situation in Australia is not comparable to that in the US. Have you actually been to a US border state? Ever been to Mexico?
[quote]Makavali wrote:
I got hit by a Caucasian woman on a crossing after one car (the one closest to me) had already stopped. She was going 60km/h (about 37-40 mph for you imperialists) when she hit me, and put me in hospital for a month. She also sped up after hitting me and tried to escape. She, however, was not in the country illegally.
It is disingenuous to relate both of these things together as you and the media are attempting to do now. He is a reckless driver. He is an illegal immigrant. These are separate issues.[/quote]
You failed to see the point that as an illegal alien, he should not have been there in the first place. Just imagine if laws were enforced, and he was detained before he hit those 4 girls.
I think we should pass a law that absolves a person of any assault charges if you try to detain an illegal alien, meaning you can whoop his ass blind and not get sued for it. This guy is a hero. I am waiting for some big shot politician to be hit by an illegal alien, maybe then we might see some action. [/quote]
If he wasn’t in the country, what is to say someone else wouldn’t have been behind that wheel?
I’m not saying he should be allowed to stay, in fact illegal immigrants should be deported straight away, I’m just saying that adding this hit and run blows the issue out of proportion.[/quote]
You’re going “What If” this to death? Really?
I’d rather deal in facts. The FACT is he didn’t belong here. The FACT is the legal American now has NO RECOURSE to recover anything from this scum.
Just yesterday an ILLEGAL, MEXICAN, without a license, hit a State rep here… The mexican was LOADED… .25 (legal limit is .08). When being arrested he told the cops: Hey man, nothing is going to happen to me, I’m going home to mexico.
FTW.
[/quote]
Or maybe change your laws so you can take his shit and physically kick him out of the country. All I was pointing out was that hit and runs are not endemic to illegal immigrants.
[quote]phaethon wrote:
My country (Australia)[/quote]
Criminal![/quote]
Hey don’t be jealous that I’m from the lucky country cuz. You can still come over if you want. Just catch a plane. Then you don’t have to put up with horrible weather all day; No more wearing jumpers at the beach :).
I just think it is funny that Orion is treating a small amount of immigration from countries with a reasonably similar culture as equivalent to high levels of immigration (legal and otherwise) from a completely different culture. It is simply a different kettle of fish.
About 2.5% of the Australian population are Kiwis. Another 5%+ are from the UK. Now imagine if I had said it had worked well for us so it will work for America to open its borders to Mexico. I would be contributing nothing of value because the situations are so different. I would rightly be told I didn’t know what I was talking about.[/quote]
When Kiwis migrate to Australia, they raise the IQ in both countries.
I can see how some people would want to separate his illegal status and the accident.Being illegal doesn’t make you necessarily a bad person, the majority of the time it is out of desperation and they are perfectly good people who adhere to the typical american dream. legal status does play a role because he legally shouldn’t be here, if he wasn’t then it wouldn’t of happened.
[quote]phaethon wrote:
My country (Australia)[/quote]
Criminal![/quote]
Hey don’t be jealous that I’m from the lucky country cuz. You can still come over if you want. Just catch a plane. Then you don’t have to put up with horrible weather all day; No more wearing jumpers at the beach :).
I just think it is funny that Orion is treating a small amount of immigration from countries with a reasonably similar culture as equivalent to high levels of immigration (legal and otherwise) from a completely different culture. It is simply a different kettle of fish.
About 2.5% of the Australian population are Kiwis. Another 5%+ are from the UK. Now imagine if I had said it had worked well for us so it will work for America to open its borders to Mexico. I would be contributing nothing of value because the situations are so different. I would rightly be told I didn’t know what I was talking about.[/quote]
When Kiwis migrate to Australia, they raise the IQ in both countries.
;)[/quote]
So you’re saying only the dumbest Kiwis leave and that the dumbest Kiwi is smarter than the average Aussi? Interesting.
[quote]orion wrote:
btw we have 20 % foreigners in Vienna, 1/3 of all people in Vienna have parents that were not born in Vienna.
So I guess I know what I am talking about after all.
[/quote]
No you don’t. 24% of all the people in Australia were born overseas. In our capital cities the % is much much higher. And I can still see that the situation in Australia is not comparable to that in the US. Have you actually been to a US border state? Ever been to Mexico?[/quote]
Where do these numbers come from? I looked and couldn’t find them.
