I have been on novolog 10iu/day for 4 weeks and will be stopping use after this week. Is there any protocol used for coming off insulin? I know that glucophage is sometimes used to help the body return to normal faster but I do not plan on using insulin again until next winter. I think that my recovery should be complete by that point. Any advice would be welcome. As of now I was going to stop cold turkey and follow through with a test taper and GHRP-6 for PCT.
Point well taken. I was hoping you would respond:)
I would consider myself (pre insulin use) to be rather sensitive to insulin. My parents are both very thin, hardly any visceral or sub-Q fat despite average diet/activity levels.
However, this is something I would rather not mess around with. And I would rest easier knowing that my recovery would be taken care of.
That being said, is it fine to just stop the insulin injections and start metformin the next day?
It is too bad that metformin isn’t available as a research chemical. My lab rats are in desperate need;)
I don’t know if anything is necessary. If you haven’t been using large doses (probably more than 10 IU/dose is what I would say) then I don’t know why you would need to do anything special. 4 weeks isn’t that long as you noted, and if you are in good condition as it is then your body probably won’t notice a thing.
Of course the only way to truly know though is to extensively test your blood glucose levels before and after eating to see if your body acts like it should and normalizes its glucose level.
Unless there is more to this… I would be interested to know of any side effects you feel.
[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
I think you should be albe to order it from an online pharmacy.
If not in the US, then certainly in canada.
And yes, you can start it immediately, but start at 1/2 a pill (0.5 x 850mg) or you will get the shits.
After a couple of days you can take 2 x half pills. Then 3 x half pills.
Take with your carb-rich meanls. No need to take (in fact a bad idea to take) with P+F meals.
Bushy[/quote]
As usual, thanks for the help.
im very curious of insulin and muscle gains.
what are your gains so far? how much do you expect from the end of this cycle? is the muscle gained permenant?
I can only answer one of your questions, but yes, the muscle gains are permanent, as long as you know how to train and diet correctly.
All insulin does is shuttle more nutrients/aminos into your muscle cells/fat cells. This is why it’s ideal to spike your insulin level PWO. Insulin is also extremely anabolic, so taking it can force-feed your muscles, causing them to grow.
While I’ve never taken the juice myself it sounds like the lack of “permanent” gains for any sort of anabolic is a myth. Sure you’ll lose some weight after a cycle, but most of the time this is just water weight or lowered glycogen stores. I see no reason why the hypertrophy should disappear as long as you’re not above your “genetic limit” (if there is indeed a limit) and your diet is readjusted to your new physique.
Sorry for the tangent. To answer your question, yes the gains SHOULD be permanent as long as you’re not incompetent with your diet/training.
I would use the metformin(if it didn’t make me so tired, why?) for a different reason. I swear after going off fairly high dose insulin used for quite some time I noticed increased insulin response to eating. Kind of a rebound effect. I thought it was from insulin resistance, you eat and the insulin doesn’t do it’s job so your body releases more and then it does it too well and you get sleepy from low blood sugar, pre-diabetes thing, scary. However my fasted blood sugar(blood test) was fine and I would get that tired feeling a couple minutes after eating carbs not an hour or so. It went away after a few weeks, but something like metformin might blunt the effect. Otherwise you might want to lower the carbs way down and add in more fats until your body gets back to normal. Or you might not notice anything. Who knows?
[quote]Pretzel Logic wrote:
However my fasted blood sugar(blood test) was fine and I would get that tired feeling a couple minutes after eating carbs not an hour or so.[/quote]
Fasted blood sugar doesn’t really say a whole lot. You need a (this is directly translated from my native language, so let me know if it doesn’t make sense) “Glucose tolerance test”. It’s an uncomfortable, drawn out procedure where you’re given x amount of a glucose solution to drink, and blood is drawn before, right after, and then a couple of times after that. Takes a few hours. It sucks, but if there’s something not quite right, they’ll see it.
My fasted glucose is fine, and I’m hyperinsulinimic (sp?) 
[quote]juicy wrote:
im very curious of insulin and muscle gains.
what are your gains so far? how much do you expect from the end of this cycle? is the muscle gained permenant?[/quote]
Since I started the insulin I gained about 5 lbs. I was still on cycle so this number is not that impressive. However I can tell you that I feel very full all the time. Many gym members have commented on my weight gain and thickness as of late (245). I feel as if I recover very fast from intense training.
As far as the gains being permanent, I hope so. But only time will tell as this is my first run with slin.
[quote]Humbug wrote:
Pretzel Logic wrote:
However my fasted blood sugar(blood test) was fine and I would get that tired feeling a couple minutes after eating carbs not an hour or so.
Fasted blood sugar doesn’t really say a whole lot. You need a (this is directly translated from my native language, so let me know if it doesn’t make sense) “Glucose tolerance test”. It’s an uncomfortable, drawn out procedure where you’re given x amount of a glucose solution to drink, and blood is drawn before, right after, and then a couple of times after that. Takes a few hours. It sucks, but if there’s something not quite right, they’ll see it.
My fasted glucose is fine, and I’m hyperinsulinimic (sp?)
[/quote]
Yeah, I kind of thought about that too. That maybe I had some insulin resistance but increased insulin production at baseline was keeping the fasting numbers ok. I have done a glucose tolerance test before, but not after this cycle.
How did things go, 2thepain?
[quote]Humbug wrote:
How did things go, 2thepain?
[/quote]
After 4 weeks of metformin use I discontinued it and felt fine. By this I mean I didn’t have a huge increase in visceral fat deposits. I do think that I had a slight increase but nothing crazy. I also cannot blame the slight increase in visceral fat stricktly on the insulin because at the same time I discontinued its use I also starting high doses of GHRP-6. The gains from the insulin were modest and as far as them being permanent, I’m not quite sure yet. I will have a better idea at the end of summer when I cut up. So far they are sticking very well and my PCT is almost complete.
I am unsure if I will incorporate insulin into my future bulking cycle or not. The cheap price and easy availability make it hard not too. In the mean time I continue to research insulin protocols and weigh out the + vs -. For now I like Bushys thinking on early AM slin with lots of protein and oats.
Thanks for the update. This subject interests me a great deal.