IGF-1 LR3 and GHRP-6 Run

Pharma
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[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
Thanks!

I must not have been clear on the part where I mentioned acromegaly as an evidence that the pituitary can produce large amounts of GH, enough so as to in the long term actually be more than desired. I wasn’t meaning that I think there is risk of acromegaly from a GHRP-6 cycle. It was simply in reply to the concern whether the pituitary can withstand being stimulated enough to produce a lot of GH, at least when the stimulation is occurring in a balanced and natural way.

I don’t really see the point though in using a drug at an amount that is perhaps far more than saturating its pathway, if it is. If one is going to get an adverse effect on the pituitary – which I don’t guess is that likely but still it’s the kind of thing one wants to maintain some degree of caution about particularly with new protocols that have not withstood any test of time – it seems to me that giving a totally unbalanced stimulus, extremely heavy on one and nothing added for another that is synergistic with it, doesn’t seem the best way to go compared to using more moderate doses of each.

It seems unlikely to me that a 500 mcg injection of GHRP-6 is going to do as much as 100 each of GHRP-6 and CJC-etc wouldo do, but the latter seems much more conservative.

I wouldn’t be surprised if 500 mcg of GHRP-6 does nothing more than my roughly-200 mcg injections did.

The study on the combination with GHRH suggests that the reason for limited response with the dose of GHRP-6 used is not so much from lack of more GHRP-6 as it is lack of more GHRH.

Using 500 mcg injections of GHRP-6 alone may be kind of like bringing 3 guns to a gunfight but only one bullet. Three bullets – cartridges really of course – and one gun would be better (To make a horrible analogy.)

And if nothing else, almost undoubtedly the same total use spread into more injections would give more result even if not using the CJC. E.g., if a 500 mcg injection gives only 10% more GH than a 250 mcg injection, then two 250 mcg injections may well give nearly twice the total GH. Even if it is the case that 500 mcg gives 50% more GH than 250 mcg does, two 250 mcg injections could still be 33% better. I just can’t imagine 500 mcg injections as being the efficient way to go.[/quote]

I actually read something very similar to the part where you mentioned ‘if 500mcg gives only a 10% rise over 200mcg, it wouldn’t be worth it…’ and i agree.

In light of your valued opinion, i have been playing with my doses - as this week is designed for anyway.
I tried 250mcg first - this gave me no increase in hunger - and i AM looking for this in part too… so i decided to use this dose before bed, i cant sleep on a hunger - and i assume the GH effects will be maximised by not only the sleep to follow, but the following fast.
I then tried 500mcg the first say, and found that hunger was prevalent although not overwhelming. This was then the dose i was using for the last 2 days.
Today i played with my dosages, due to your concerns and view (of course i know that none of us know for sure, but i appreciate your view and agree with it), so tried 300mcg.
This gave me a good enough hunger increase, as i am looking for during the day.

I have since settled on 250mcg on rising (when fasted 250mcg DOES stimulate hunger), 300mcg in the afternoon and 250mcg before bed.
This totals 800mcgwhich is nearer the recommended 700mcg max effective dose. The reason is i really want to dose multiple times a day… just one shot of 5-600mcg, while stimulating hunger, only would for one meal (or more accurately ‘food session’!) - where if i dose multiple times, i can use it before bed to aid GH release during the natural time of peak secretion, and i can stimulate my hunger AND GH levels throughout the day.
I would opt - at this time of working from home - for even higher frequency of shots… but the dose would be too low to stimulate hunger increases… and i am looking for that benefit.

As for dosing and concurrent GH release. I have found 2 things that point to the efficacy or possible efficacy of higher dose GHRP. The first is that Ghrelin is increased alongside GH, and i found that a high dose (500mcg) increases hunger each time it is taken, suggesting to me it could well increase GH in that same level.
The second is even more assuming, but is the simple fact that in all the articles i have read, GHRP seems to be totally dose dependant, and while this often has a glass ceiling, the max dose tested seems to be 3mcg/kg - approx 300mcg for myself…

Brook

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Sounds good! :slight_smile:

63

OK…

So with the intent of providing a fairly detailed log in order to assist future use of these compounds together or apart; here is the recent update.

I am happy so far :wink:
I have been using both for 3-4 days now, and have been eating more due to the increase in hunger from the GHRP - however, my weight hadn’t shifted, in FACT i lost a couple of pounds!
This wasn’t as depressing as it could have been, due to the fact i have been eating, training and doing the right things in relation to muscle building - so i can only assume it is a positive effect from an increase in GH levels maybe…

I trained today for the second time since using the peptides - and injected 10mcg IGF into each Bicep (long head) and into each lat.
The first day was the day after a chest workout, and i injected IGF into each pec. The second day was my Quads (vastus Lateralis and Medialis).

I had a greeeat pump… i am currently cruising, albeit on a significant 400mg/wk Test’rone, and i have not had a pump that enjoyable, long lasting and more importantly NON-debilitating for a long time… AAS or not (AAS induced pumps tend to be shorter lived, and if intense - TOO intense and painful).

I was relatively strong - that is, no less strong than during my last blast including Dbol, Tren, Mast and Test to a total of 2g androgens! Not bad for 4 days of peptides.

Towards the end of my last blast, i became de-motivated and lethargic, suggesting a de-loading period was over due… and welcomed in my cruise period. I dropped my total volume by approx 50% and used compound exercises to hit as many bodyparts as possible. I have slowly been ‘recovering’ like this, but since starting the peptides i have more motivation and energy in training… not tons, but much improved - giving me hope for the end of my cruise.

I have been sleeping more - likely due to the GHRP i suspect. I sleep easily… and it should be noted i use prescribed high dose opioids which i have a thriving tolerance to.
I go to bed around 10-11pm, and i rise at 8. I still could sleep longer when rising now, and i tend to have a 1 hour nap during the day on training days. This is a lot of sleep, and i don’t feel bad for it - as i normally would after just 30mins too much sleep 9lethargy, headaches, etc.)

That is about it so far, i am hopeful and motivated to continue.

I believe that most of the results i have spoke of are down to the GHRP - except possibly the recovery increases. I suspect that is IGF. The trouble with this log is the difficulty all will have determining which peptide is giving what benefit… for that reason it may be only useful to those who are planning to use both together.

I am settled on using 2x 250mcg and 1x 300mcg of G6 a day, and 40mcg of IGF on workout days… usually split over 1-2 muscles.

Cheers :wink:

64

I am still needing to force feed, but i get hungrier quicker. I of couurse make use of the Ghrelin increase following my injections of G6, but i think that the faster gastric emptying is very useful in the weight gain stakes too… as the hunger is shortlived from the shot - the expedited gastric emptying is very useful for inbetween shots… allowing me to eat that few more calories and that little more often. As we all know, every little helps.

I am eating more than i have for a long time.

Interestingly, i am not shifting the scales much… this isn’t THAT surprising, as for one i always struggled to gain fast - it comes in 3-5lb jumps every few months if bulking. Secondly, i feel i look better, i am of course holding a little more fat due to the food i am eating but in the morning, before carbs - i look fuller, more muscular with rounder muscle bellies… only discreetly, but it is noticeable. Like a natural muscle gain - if any of you remember what that is like! :wink:

I just frontloaded my cycle yesterday… i have decided to just run a meat and potatoes all out mass cycle, Test and Dbol with 1000mg Test and an un-finalised amount of dbol… likely 30mg/day.

I have been shooting the IGF PWO… and while it is going to be impossible to discern which peptide does what, i seem to have increased my energy, strength is fine, climbing (and unattributable to AAS at this point)… recovery of the muscles injected SEEMS to be faster, but this is difficult to prove beyond any reasonable doubt.

All in all, whatever is doing what - i am happy with what is happening so far, and for the small cost of the peptides, it is hard to say they aren’t worth it - even with mild results. I have been getting results and making gains that i simply would not have made over the past week, and i feel that one or both of these pep’s have a place between cycles.

I hope that the synergism of the Dbol + Test with the GH + IGF is more productive… sadly as far as the G6/GH goes… with such an all out bulk it is unlikely i will ‘see’ anything from that. I think that a low dose of G6 (3-5x 100mcg/day) during a cutting cycle would be a very cheap, non-hunger stimulating and effective way to increase GH levels… added to a little Prop, a little more Tren and equal amounts of Masteron, i am sure with a nice diet you will become very lean/more so than without the G6. Just an educated guess.

As for bulking, i feel that the GH rise from the G6 will not be wasted, it (GH) does increase strength, recovery, connective tissue strength (vital with AAS use IMO) but these factors are unlikely to be noticed with heavy AAS use… but for the increased ability to eat, it is very useful for those who want to add more size.
I suspect i will be adding G6 to many a size cycle in the future… even if only for that benefit.

As for the IGF - i had a shitty experience i should share. It wasn’t DEFINITELY the IG, but it is possible.

On Saturday i trained and shot my IGF in the changing room, as i was capping the needle, i stuck the pin in my finger my mistake. I had used the dose, BUT i know that some will have been on/in the tip. I drew a little blood…

That afternoon i succumbed to a very severe headache, followed by chills, profuse sweating and insomnia… i was very very ill indeed.
I know that IGF used intravenously is a no-no for these reasons, and i suspect that i had a very small amount of the peptide enter my bloodstream.
I will be more careful with the bare needle in the future… and i am stringently aspirating (i was anyway) - as if a minute amount of IV IGF made me feel like that, then a dose 1000x that would feel close to death… AT LEAST.

Hope this is interesting, i hate logs.

65

I’m interested, keep the updates coming. Especially perked my interest in the G6 for hunger.

66

Must be nice to be able to actually want a drug to increase hunger, rather than eating less than you’d prefer and what really is not that much already resulting in excessive fat gain despite 10 hours a week or so of lifting and a shipload of steroids.

Dadblamed young whippersnappers.

67

A very interesting thread… as usual. Thank you.

Mike

68

Keep the updates coming Brook my G6 should be here soon too.

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Thank you all for the continued support in the threads continuance. I was not convinced it would be of use but enough seem to find it useful enough for me to continue - thanks again.

Anyway - i am enjoying the peptides; something different and actually surprisingly effective - i have put on almost a stone over the past 3 weeks, that is ~14lbs.
I have not been using the peptides over the full period i gained the weight however. I began my bulk phase 3 weeks ago, and i started the peptides 1-2 weeks ago and added AAS to them just 3 days ago.

~14lbs in three weeks is usually going to consist of a lot of fat you’d expect - and while i have gained fat - i have a positive composition increase, i can tell this by visual assessment (i rarely do calliper tests on myself when bulking, i go by either a target weight, or by ‘seeing’ too much fat accumulation).

Training is going well, i am ramping up volume periodically from one macro to the next. If it is of interest my training consists of the following:

6 days of 8 on.

3 day split: Chest(9)/Delt(6)/Tri(3), Hams(6)/Back(9)/Bi(3), Abs(6)/Calf(3)/Quad(9).

6-12 reps.

This was my cruise program - though with lower sets, and sub-maximal intensity. I have been building up the volume over the past couple of macrocycles so i don’t suffer too much DOMS when i change to my ‘official’ blast program. (4 day split, 4 days of 6 on, 4-10 reps, upto 15 sets per bodypart, and as low as 6 sets).

I am looking bigger, i am bigger.

Above is mostly due to the increased eating from the G6 i suspect, but… i am definitely seeing differences in my muscles, more than an increase in calories could achieve - so quickly at least.
My chest is fuller - chest is one of my weakest bodyparts, and i have struggled with it for years… so i notice small changes easily.

My shoulders are one of my strongest areas (go figure huh? Anybody suspect compensation somewhere??!) and they are really capping. I am NOT injecting IGF in my delts… :wink:

It’s still very early, and again i should say that i am getting good results overall - just not specifically from the more expensive IGF. At this point, i would not even consider paying $100-$200 for 1mg of that peptide.

Thats it for a couple of days i think - unless something happens :wink:

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At the doses you’re talking about, the IGF-1LR3 really is not more expensive per month used, is it?

For example I just made a 1 mg bottle last a month, thus 33 mcg/day, which is about the middle of what you had posted as your thought on the optimal range and actually a bit more than you are using now. That does not seem a more expensive rate of use. The bottle is expensive but it lasts longer as mcg doses are lower.

Unfortunately because of having done two different things and the effects possibly being slow to be seen, I cannot resolve out whether IGF-1LR3 has done more than I previously credited for me, or whether it has been mostly the GHRP-6.

But I have been seeing what BBB has talked about, for his GH protocol, in terms of actual change in shape – appearing more naturally mesomorphic. Which is amazing. Not that I look great, as improvement is relative to where one was, but there is a real improvement that just would not have been predicted. Not in mass, as the scale value vs bodyfat doesn’t show anything substantive, but in appearance for sure.

If the process is as slow as BBB says, and I expect it is, it may be problematic coming to quick judgments on value of IGF-1LR3.

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Well i do get GHRP for $3 per 5mg, and IGF for $40… and i use 5mg of G6 a week and 1mg of IGF in 5 weeks… this is the equivalent of only $15 of G6 - but i get the point.

But you are correct - i had forgotten temporarily that i am using the IGF not so much for immediate effect, but for what it can allow me to achieve in the future. Yes, it was BBB that i read this from first i think… although i believe it is stated by a few experienced users.

It makes sense, the differentiated satellite cells need time to grow through diet and training/stimulus (i assume this is the idea). I am looking forward to the next couple of years ;D

Brook

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I forgot that your GHRP-6 is 1/10th the price of mine! Perhaps I should shop better! :slight_smile:

73

A few thoughts:

Thanks for the studies Bill. I did not know about the increase in GH from T3. It seems like a GHRP-6,CJC, and T3 cycle without insulin and with low GI carbs or low carbs, would be very good. I think it would be best do so while on steroids to reduce/prevent T3 from eating up muscle, as insulin and steroids do this, but insulin would be counter productive in this cycle.

As for price and availability. I have also never seen GHRH for sale at an affordable price. However, I believe Sermorelin and CJC-1295 modified/ modified GRF 1-29 have basically the same effect. Real CJC-1295 is too expensive and looks unstable, and Sermorelin is a RX and more expensive generally and doesn’t stay active in the body as long as CJC modified. Therefore I would use CJC-1295m/modified GRF 1-29. You can also get bulk prices similar to what Brook quoted for GHRP-6.

If you are looking for max GH release from GHRP-6, like Bill said, it is better to use less, more often. From personal experience and reading, it seems like 100mcg seems to be the start of the flattening out of the response curve and the highest bang for buck is 150-200mcg/shot, every 3-4 hours.

This will not be the best for hunger, but if you take it when you haven’t anything to eat for awhile, especially fats and carbs, and your blood insulin and glucose levels are stable or low you will get a better GH response and hunger at a lower does.

Of course while bulking it is impossible to have an empty stomach every 3-4 hours, but if you kind of time the injections right before your next meal when your system should be most empty you will be more hungry for the meal and get a better response. I think also in a situation like PWO you can use a little extra to somewhat overcome the blunted effect peri-workout carbs would have on a PWO shot.

Carbs, fat, high blood glucose levels, and high blood insulin levels decrease GH output, not all by the same means when using GHRP-6 and CJC. I imagine the insulin increased GH response because low blood sugar levels can do that. However, from the studies listed it looks like it induces on one hand, and inhibits by different means on the other.

It seems like the increases in prolactin are related to estrogen levels and keeping estrogen low will go a long way to preventing excess prolactin release. I feel that B6 (the plain cheap kind) helps with prolactin also. I can’t prove it, but I believe it. I also believe ACTH and cortisol increases even out after using the GHRP-6 for a little while. Studies support this also.

I have not used IGF, but I have used MGF. It makes sense that IGF-LR3 would have a weak local effect and pegMGF would also, but more so than the IFG-1LR3. I think MGF works better locally, partly because it binds the IGF receptors in the injected muscle better than IGF-LR3. I don’t know anyone who has used regular IGF-1 that might work great locally, but looks very unstable.

As for MGF, I have found the regular non-peg works for site injections, but I would not limit it to just post-workout. From the literature it seems to not last very long, and from personal experience, the effect doesn’t last as well if you only inject the muscle worked post-workout and then do the muscle worked next time, etc.

I would pick lagging body parts, and inject twice a day for several days in a row into the same muscle or couple of muscles and then switch to maybe one other muscle for a few days and then back. You could also overlap so you inject a muscle like bis that you worked a few days ago and have been injecting daily for a couple days, once and work tris and inject them once and do this for another day, then tris twice a day for a couple days. Whatever works with your split.

The point is, I think you have to do it more often and in higher doses than most recommend. Something like 100mcg each side for both daily injections, for a total of 400mcg/day is probably the upper limit. You should get good local effect and around that dose, it seems like it starts to make you feel tired, muscles kind of tired and weak and just kind of beat down and systemically depressed and under recovered. I don’t have any idea why this is, but not a lot is known about MGF.

There are conflicting studies that show ghrelin stimulates insulin release, and that it inhibits insulin release by acting directly on the pancreas. I don’t know if GHRP-6 does this, but I imagine it does. I don’t know exactly the implications of both scenarios, but maybe some one else can make more sense of it than me.

In DatBtrue’s old article on promuscle, there was a bit about opiates and GH secretion. Namely when certain ones were added to the CJC and GHRP mix, GH release went through the roof. I wonder Brook, if your opiate use would increase GH secretion even more when combined with what you are doing or if your body is used to it and that particular effect like most others, aren’t triggered by the drug anymore.

BTW the main opiate used in the study was dermorphin. It is said to be more powerful than morphine but cause less tolerance and addiction. It can be had for about $100 for 5gm.

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Great post!

[quote]Sgt. Hartman wrote:
A few thoughts:

Thanks for the studies Bill. I did not know about the increase in GH from T3. It seems like a GHRP-6,CJC, and T3 cycle without insulin and with low GI carbs or low carbs, would be very good. I think it would be best do so while on steroids to reduce/prevent T3 from eating up muscle, as insulin and steroids do this, but insulin would be counter productive in this cycle.[/quote]
Do you suggest that insulin would be counter productive due to the antagonism of action to GH? Just because i think it would be very useful; with the T3 to assist in anabolism, yet having the T3 to control fat accumulation, with steroids for the satellite cell differentiation (apparently), with the G6 and CJC to lower the blood glucose level, increasing the GH response to the G6 (taken before the peptides, with some controlled carb intake, then when the largest peak is over, inject the peptides). Do you disagree?[quote]

As for price and availability. I have also never seen GHRH for sale at an affordable price. However, I believe Sermorelin and CJC-1295 modified/ modified GRF 1-29 have basically the same effect. Real CJC-1295 is too expensive and looks unstable, and Sermorelin is a RX and more expensive generally and doesn’t stay active in the body as long as CJC modified. Therefore I would use CJC-1295m/modified GRF 1-29. You can also get bulk prices similar to what Brook quoted for GHRP-6.[/quote]

I get it (Serm or CJC) for $20… and this is affordable IMo if you consider that it would be used in a low/moderate dose alongside the G6 for the purposes of this discussion. It is also available on the site you supplied for around the same ($23).[quote]

If you are looking for max GH release from GHRP-6, like Bill said, it is better to use less, more often. From personal experience and reading, it seems like 100mcg seems to be the start of the flattening out of the response curve and the highest bang for buck is 150-200mcg/shot, every 3-4 hours.
This will not be the best for hunger, but if you take it when you haven’t anything to eat for awhile, especially fats and carbs, and your blood insulin and glucose levels are stable or low you will get a better GH response and hunger at a lower does. Of course while bulking it is impossible to have an empty stomach every 3-4 hours, but if you kind of time the injections right before your next meal when your system should be most empty you will be more hungry for the meal and get a better response. I think also in a situation like PWO you can use a little extra to somewhat overcome the blunted effect peri-workout carbs would have on a PWO shot.[/quote]

I have actually been experimenting with 4 shots a day, from 200-250mg at a time, and timing them when i am either hungry (PWO/Breakfast) or about to eat (teatime/dinnertime) OR about to fast (before bed). So it seems i came to this conclusion naturally anyway! lol!
It is working well - i am upto 15stone from 14 stone (~196lbs - ~210lbs).
The thing is… i am looking for that hunger increase, so i am trying to balance out the max GH release with the max hunger increase PLUS being within recommended safe levels… if it were down to me without listening to outside views both here and elsewhere, i’d be shooting 600mcg 4x a day!

As i mentioned further up in the thread, i think that a dose of 100-200mcg dosed multiple times a day, 4-7x maybe, would be very good at increasing GH with no increase in hunger, and complimenting a cutting steroid cycle and diet.[quote]

Carbs, fat, high blood glucose levels, and high blood insulin levels decrease GH output, not all by the same means when using GHRP-6 and CJC. I imagine the insulin increased GH response because low blood sugar levels can do that. However, from the studies listed it looks like it induces on one hand, and inhibits by different means on the other.[/quote]

Quite possible… in which case, high doses of G6 for increasing hunger are counter productive for GH increases… suggesting it should be pre-determined before use which goal you desire, size and food intake, or GH increases… as if you are right, then simply being on a bulking diet (constantly high blood/glucose levels and present insulin) one would be negating the Gh effects of G6.[quote]

It seems like the increases in prolactin are related to estrogen levels and keeping estrogen low will go a long way to preventing excess prolactin release. I feel that B6 (the plain cheap kind) helps with prolactin also. I can’t prove it, but I believe it. I also believe ACTH and cortisol increases even out after using the GHRP-6 for a little while. Studies support this also.[/quote]

Well, as i am sure you know, prolactin is directly increased by estrogen ANYWAY, and a high estrogen level will increase prolactin. Isn’t prolactin produced by the anterior pituitary too - along with ghrelin and GH? If so, then maybe G6 stimulates the anterior pituitary blindly, and along with suppressing the action of somatostatin it increases it’s pro-GH effects further - thus creating it’s name for primarily being a GH peptide? Just thinking out loud here…[quote]
I have not used IGF, but I have used MGF. It makes sense that IGF-LR3 would have a weak local effect and pegMGF would also, but more so than the IFG-1LR3. I think MGF works better locally, partly because it binds the IGF receptors in the injected muscle better than IGF-LR3. I don’t know anyone who has used regular IGF-1 that might work great locally, but looks very unstable.[/quote]
I agree - LR3 was designed specifically to be resistant to IGFBP and so be able to travel the body so less frequent injections were needed - however it also means without binding to the BP it is not delivered to the receptors. Similar to SHBG in a vague way, a necessary ‘evil’.
I did think for a while that a SC shot would only be necessary for the LR3 version of IGF-1, BUT i realised that IM may produce even a little localised growth so it may as well be chosen, as it takes no skin of my nose…[quote]

As for MGF, I have found the regular non-peg works for site injections, but I would not limit it to just post-workout. From the literature it seems to not last very long, and from personal experience, the effect doesn’t last as well if you only inject the muscle worked post-workout and then do the muscle worked next time, etc. I would pick lagging body parts, and inject twice a day for several days in a row into the same muscle or couple of muscles and then switch to maybe one other muscle for a few days and then back. You could also overlap so you inject a muscle like bis that you worked a few days ago and have been injecting daily for a couple days, once and work tris and inject them once and do this for another day, then tris twice a day for a couple days. Whatever works with your split. The point is, I think you have to do it more often and in higher doses than most recommend. Something like 100mcg each side for both daily injections, for a total of 400mcg/day is probably the upper limit. You should get good local effect and around that dose, it seems like it starts to make you feel tired, muscles kind of tired and weak and just kind of beat down and systemically depressed and under recovered. I don’t have any idea why this is, but not a lot is known about MGF.[/quote]

I have been planning an MGF run, and it will be the unmodified version over the PEG version, which by all accounts simply is not as effective (same story, different day anyone?).
I was planning on injecting 100mcg in each muscle bi-laterally PWO… but in light of your post, i will add more to a day.
If one used 400mcg, then 4mg would last 10 days and cost $40 (for me at least), so 1 month would be $120.
One could inject 400mcg per muscle group for 3 days, then switch to the second group for 3 days. This would be repeated 5 times for a total of 30 days and a total of 12mg.[quote]

There are conflicting studies that show ghrelin stimulates insulin release, and that it inhibits insulin release by acting directly on the pancreas. I don’t know if GHRP-6 does this, but I imagine it does. I don’t know exactly the implications of both scenarios, but maybe some one else can make more sense of it than me.[/quote]

Do you think this is connected to hunger and the common perception (by those who are experienced with such things) that it makes one feel slightly hypoglycaemic? Increasing insulin release does increase hunger/craving for carbs, and it also would bring about mild hypo symptoms.[quote]

In DatBtrue’s old article on promuscle, there was a bit about opiates and GH secretion. Namely when certain ones were added to the CJC and GHRP mix, GH release went through the roof. I wonder Brook, if your opiate use would increase GH secretion even more when combined with what you are doing or if your body is used to it and that particular effect like most others, aren’t triggered by the drug anymore. BTW the main opiate used in the study was dermorphin. It is said to be more powerful than morphine but cause less tolerance and addiction. It can be had for about $100 for 5gm.
[/quote]

This is very interesting indeed - i am going to trawl through endojournals on that one :wink:

Thankyou for a very interesting post :slight_smile:

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I’ve been looking at the studies that show insulin and glucose decreasing the GH releasing response and the one showing insulin induced hypoglycemia increasing GH quite a bit, and I’m not sure. Obviously insulin is regularly added to injected GH protocols because the two work well together and if you could maintain relatively high levels of GH output from the GHRP-6 while injecting insulin, the two together, combined with steroids and T3 and a lot of food should be very anabolic. There is also the question of when to take the peptides and insulin, both pre/post WO and the other several times throughout the day.

Although cutting out some carbs and insulin sounds like it may be beneficial, I have seen good response to a protocol of insulin use before working out and GHRP-6+CJC PWO. This would support your idea of insulin before g6 increasing it’s effectiveness, or at least not reducing it. Would this be the best way to do it all the time though. Say first thing in the morning.

Overall I don’t think having glucose and insulin in your system diminishes the majority of GH release from G6 at all. I think you can still get decent response, just not the best. I get pretty hungry with 150mcg and even get hungry from it after I have eaten recently.

I think I will have to look into ghrelin’s effect on insulin release, and try to post some studies because I don’t know the details.

76

Well - my relationship broke down this week… leaving me once again homeless.

This puts a minor hold on my bulk - as i am sure many understand a true bulk can only be achieved when one is very secure and stable (and can gorge all day!) in their life.

So… i am looking for a new place, this time with no interference by women (well and truly off relationships from now), and i will then continue with my gaining.

My results were going very well… so i am happy enough to let the scales drop as it will no longer be ‘unfoundland’ and will just be ‘re-gains’!

TBC

77

Sorry to hear that…all of it. I don’t have much luck with women myself…but what can ya do? I don’t know much about you personally, but you seem like a resourceful guy, so I’m sure you’ll get back on the horse soon enough. Good luck partner!

78

I will mate, i am strong as fuck these days - what doesn’t kill you and all that certainly is true for me. :wink:

79

Sorry to hear that bro, minor hiccup as this is, i’m pretty sure as you said; it’ll only provide a further boost to ur cycle once it gets back on track! Godspeed to ya mate, update us once all has been sorted out :wink:

80

So due to my life turning upside down yet again… here is the impact it has had on my bulking and any changes i have noticed positively or negatively in my physique:

I didn’t eat much of anything on the first day… but i was back eating significantly (although not the extreme amounts i was when housed and secure) by the next day.

I have not trained since Wednesday last week - but will be back tomorrow hopefully - gym guy willing to let me delay membership fees.

So considering that my diet isn’t as high in calories as i need for maximum weight gain, and i have had approx. 1 week away from training, i am happy.

the reason is because i am looking thick ATM… my muscles are full and shapely, i am of course holding fat around the midsection predominantly (i’m an ecto first and foremost, so it is natural) due to the no-holds barred eating.
I am looking VERY thick actually… i have been making the most of a full length mirror where i am at the moment and while my midsection is forever too thick (more Ruhl than Zane for this aspiring BB), i am looking stocky as a motherfucker. It should be no surprise that 205-210lbs at my height is not small anymore… but i do believe i suffer from a mild version of BDD.

I doubt it can be true it is the peptides, but i am looking larger than before this run - it may be that i didn’t notice it as my weight has climbed over the years, it may be that it is the mirror, as DOES happen… and it could of course be the androgens - it is likely a little of all factors as is usually the case! The scales i have here are fucked and not only no real representation of my weight, but changing within seconds of use!

I have not had any IGF for a week now as i am only using it PWO. I have had just the 1 day off G6 and have been getting in my 3-4 shots a day of 2-250mcg. In fact, due to the lowered ability to endlessly and selfishly gorge on every morsel available to me, i have been shooting less G6 more frequently, more for GH increase over Ghrelin.

I have my eye on a place to live, and my website is coming into fruition… in my mind, and it took me all of 24 hours to recover from this failed relationship. All in all a trying but productive week.

Brook