[quote]carbiduis wrote:
Classic T Nation, focus in on minute details and not the question being asked.
Again, does anyone have any ideas?[/quote]
YOU brought up race as a factor.
[quote]H factor wrote:
[quote]carbiduis wrote:
Classic T Nation, focus in on minute details and not the question being asked.
Again, does anyone have any ideas?[/quote]
You’re asking us to help you do something we are opposed to and you’re mad we aren’t helping. What you are wanting in my opinion is akin to fraud. When someone gets disability money and isn’t disabled that is public fraud. It is a waste of taxpayer dollars. I don’t mind some of my paycheck going to ACTUAL people who need it. I wish we would change some things to make this happen less, but that isn’t what we are talking about.
I’m not going to help you get something you don’t deserve. If you asked me how to get away with murder I wouldn’t help you there either.
It’s not some “minute” detail. It’s called being a man. Men take responsibility. Right now you seem like a boy who is just saying “I wanna, I wanna, I wanna.” Stop.
[/quote]
Preach bro.
Sorry OP, we disagree on much in this forum but we are all patriots(who disagree on how things should be run…lol) who are not keen on ripping off this country that we all love.
I kind of agree with original post. For some folk they do make it easier to get it. It just depends on your case worker. Mind you I am employed but for 6 months I could not work due to medical reasons. My boss had someone call me to help me apply for unemployment, when I did not ask for it. But nevertheless I bit since I was out of commission for 6 months. I go back to work begining of Feb. THank God. Next thing you know I got a food stamp card sent to me. Along with a form to help me with utilities and get this an OBAMA PHONE. I did not ask for none of this. I just wanted the unemployment cause I kind of needed that. ( Note I did not take the offer on the utilities and phone cause I did not need it)
I had a friend who was actually laid off and is white. Who had a hard time getting anything. He had to jump through hoops. His was legit as well. I think it has more to do with the actual case worker being biased. By the way Im an American Hispanic. Who cannot wait to go back to work once I get cleared from my brain doctor. In my case it worked only because I really needed and I could not legitimately, unlike many other people I know who do milk the system. Go to work for 6 months and get 6 months of unemployment. Like clockwork for them.
[quote]H factor wrote:
[quote]carbiduis wrote:
Classic T Nation, focus in on minute details and not the question being asked.
Again, does anyone have any ideas?[/quote]
You’re asking us to help you do something we are opposed to and you’re mad we aren’t helping. What you are wanting in my opinion is akin to fraud. When someone gets disability money and isn’t disabled that is public fraud. It is a waste of taxpayer dollars. I don’t mind some of my paycheck going to ACTUAL people who need it. I wish we would change some things to make this happen less, but that isn’t what we are talking about.
I’m not going to help you get something you don’t deserve. If you asked me how to get away with murder I wouldn’t help you there either.
It’s not some “minute” detail. It’s called being a man. Men take responsibility. Right now you seem like a boy who is just saying “I wanna, I wanna, I wanna.” Stop.
[/quote]
Ding ding ding, winner winner chicken dinner.
[quote]carbiduis wrote:
[quote]zecarlo wrote:
[quote]carbiduis wrote:
Is there a way for a self-sufficient white person to make use of these handouts that your know of? [/quote]
What does race have to do with it?
And there is a way: run for political office. [/quote]
I knew this was coming…
What doesn’t it have to do with it?
I had friends in college who couldn’t get food stamps cause they were white (they needed them too)[/quote]
your friends in college that applied for assistance had something that flagged the case workers application process. they didn’t give you all the information.
it had nothing to do with your friends race. it could have been a number of things but most likely their total household income or living situation was the problem. by law they are required to report all members living at their address and what income they have. it can get complicated and embarrassing personally. they have to validate the information with signatures from two or more people familiar with their circumstances.
i’m sure there is more to the story you do not know.
…but a quick summary each state has it’s own formula for calculating level of poverty.
they usually need to know what cash or savings you have on hand. in the old days 1990’s they also wanted to know how many and how much your vehicles were worth. and yes they can locate all this information through the department of motor vehicles, your bank, credit history and current employment status with social security numbers.
those people who work for cash only would sometimes be able to get around these obstacles. that is the case with so many that commit fraud. but on the other hand all states have a task force that investigates fraud. they are overwhelmed, but that doesn’t mean you won’t get caught at some later date.
how do i know? i worked as a case worker specialist and was later promoted to the states division of audits and investigations. that was back when ebt/snap benefits were actual paper food stamps and it was called welfare.
these investigative departments were gutted during the mid-late 90’s and they did not hire the needed agents to pour over the vast number of cases that were flagged for fraud or follow up and verify hotline tips.
tips came from immediate family, neighbors or co-workers angry about those they knew, working cash jobs. people are so stupid they were bragging about getting government medicaid, food stamps and housing paid for while they did construction jobs, house cleaning, and drug selling, usually with small children in the household.
but eventually blabbing catches up to you. friends, neighbors turn you in when you fall out of favor, don’t repay cash loans or make someone angry by moving away with their possesions.
oh yeah, we caught quite a few strippers on welfare. sometimes outlying counties have these mega strip joints and away from the city we picked them up with the aid of state police. some would have over $1500 cash on them for maybe two nights work. the girl friends they hung out with after club hours would be the ones to turn them in (probably so they could bump them off the show stage and reap more tips for themselves and we would also catch the tipsters who were also on welfare)
the worst cases to investigate involved those selling drugs because investigations would sometimes take place at night and you had long hours of monotonous waiting, videotaping “clients” sometimes in public housing. it was much easier doing the outlying county strip club investigations. they had their “ups and downs” but weren’t as “hairy.”
no pun intended.
no i lied it was intended.
but op no one here has motivation to help you break the law.
P.S.
remember op…it’s never the wrong time to do the right thing. and always keep your feet planted firmly on the ground as you reach for the stars.
[quote]carbiduis wrote:
I had friends in college who couldn’t get food stamps cause they were white (they needed them too)[/quote]
No you didn’t, and the plurality of people on food stamps are white.
[quote]UtahLama wrote:
[quote]H factor wrote:
[quote]carbiduis wrote:
Classic T Nation, focus in on minute details and not the question being asked.
Again, does anyone have any ideas?[/quote]
You’re asking us to help you do something we are opposed to and you’re mad we aren’t helping. What you are wanting in my opinion is akin to fraud. When someone gets disability money and isn’t disabled that is public fraud. It is a waste of taxpayer dollars. I don’t mind some of my paycheck going to ACTUAL people who need it. I wish we would change some things to make this happen less, but that isn’t what we are talking about.
I’m not going to help you get something you don’t deserve. If you asked me how to get away with murder I wouldn’t help you there either.
It’s not some “minute” detail. It’s called being a man. Men take responsibility. Right now you seem like a boy who is just saying “I wanna, I wanna, I wanna.” Stop.
[/quote]
Preach bro.
Sorry OP, we disagree on much in this forum but we are all patriots(who disagree on how things should be run…lol) who are not keen on ripping off this country that we all love.[/quote]
This and this (H Factor and Lama).
[quote]carbiduis wrote:
You think you need to pull in THAT MUCH money to be in the group that has something to bitch about…I thought you were an accountant and should know better[/quote]
I don’t think that is the case, I know it is.
If I have people that pay me to tell them to send north of a million a year into the government that don’t have ambitions to commit fraud to receive “something back”, you sure don’t have any room to do so.
Look, I deal with taxation for something like 1,800 hours a year with work, not including self study, review of current events and CPE (continuing professional education.) I also know how to read a budget, and how business works. And I’m telling you, until you start paying in large sums of money every year, you are likely getting back from government services more than you put in, because the costs of such services are socialized through compulsory taxation and consumption taxation. (The costs of these services are spread out over so many people in the community, that the cost to any one individual is lower than if the costs weren’t spread.)
Think about this, 6 blocks in the suburbs might have what, 8 people per block, or 48 households. And to plow those streets during the winter, and repair road damage in the spring costs at least 50k, in a good year. If you do the math that is what, a bit over 1k a year per household if they paid directly. How much are your Real Estate taxes? More than 1k right? Ahhh but those taxes also put books in students hands, keep the grass green on the Little League field, etc…
I’m one of the first people to sign up to limit federal government, shrink our tax bills and get this country headed towards fiscal responsibility. But, I also understand basic economics and business function. So I know that you, like the vast majority of us who hate paying tax and how the country is run, particularly fiscally, still do receive at least, if not more service than our tax dollars are worth.
[quote]I don’t plan on making my rookie salary when I’m 30,40,50+ yrs old, my guess (and go ahead and correct me if I’m wrong) is that I will be making more money when I get older. I’m looking ahead
[/quote]
Sure, but again, we are talking paying in north of 100k a year for a couple years, once we start taking all the aspects of government into consideration.
I mean, it is hard, but try and put a dollar figure on the security the world’s finest fighting force, the standing US armies, provides you.
[quote]H factor wrote:
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]H factor wrote:
Why should someone else pay money to help me out when I’m my age and don’t need any help? I can understand OP’s frustrations, but why desire to be part of that? [/quote]
I don’t know either, but I think it is easier for some people to just “get” from the system, rather than give, at least in their mind.
Some are just lazy.
And some probably don’t think they have any other option.
And then there are those that do now, and will forever need the help of their communities to get by, certain disabilities etc…
I mean the complete lack of basic economic knowledge I see daily, just by clicking the “facebook” icon on my phone leads me people actually think when government give syou something it is “free”. [/quote]
Then you’re gonna love this.
The local teachers here, want a 17.6% raise, and they want it all right now. Not spread out over a period of years, but right now, like yesterday. In a city facing hundreds of millions in debt, the greed is shameless. [/quote]
Even though I agree with you I would not be focusing on the local teachers as my example of greed. Of course they want more money, everyone wants more money. If they are like the teachers in the local school district in Kansas where I’m at they have been frozen or giving the minimum step for 4 years. Local teachers where I am REALLY want a salary increase…they haven’t got one in over 4 years, not even the steps guaranteed by the contract they signed. That (imo) should be breach of contract and illegal, but it happened.
IDK I get what you’re saying and I pretty much agree, but your local teachers is not the place I would choose to start when talking about greed in the American system. It’s not that it’s a bad example I just think you can find 1 billion better ones.
Maybe I’m wrong…[/quote]
H, I don’t think I’ve agreed with you this much in one thread ever. Bunch of good posts from you here.
And I agree. I don’t have a problem with people wanting more money. And if people DESERVE that raise, I have no problem with them demanding it. So, before I could judge, I would have to see the results of these teacher’s efforts. (Based on prior experience, I would say some of them deserve the raise, and so should be fired, lol.)
But like you said, there are likely bigger fish to fry, particularly in a state like Cali, lol.
When considering the benefits reaped from work sown, is the profit created by you in the workplace- how much money the company you work for makes from your work and pays taxes on- taken into consideration or is it just how much you make/pay on the paycheck?
Or is it just a forgone conclusion that you will get more than you pay for from the govs.?
[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
[quote]carbiduis wrote:
Classic T Nation, focus in on minute details and not the question being asked.
Again, does anyone have any ideas?[/quote]
Yes. Step away from private employment. Take the civil service exam (you’ll ace it) and start applying for state jobs. Once you get one of those you will basically be pre-retired. By the time you actually do retire (your age when you start + 30) you’l be set for the rest of your very long life.
You will have the good life making prevailing rate of an engineer on state and federal money.
[/quote]
Best advice (that I’ve read) so far, before I leave my current employer I’ll do this.
Thanks.
Since this seems relevant to the current discussion, I heard about this local statistic here yesterday, and I thought I would share it with you all.
“In 2011, the top 1 percent of tax returns accounted for 41 percent of the state’s personal income tax revenues, and that was before Proposition 30 raised rates on the rich. Meanwhile, about half of California adults paid no state income tax that year, according to an estimate from the state Finance Department.”
And what happens when you soak the rich ? Have a look…
Lee Schneider, a hedge fund salesman who works from home, also cited Prop. 30 as the “deciding factor” for his move from Walnut Creek to Austin, Texas, in 2012. The California native had recently built a $2 million house at the foot of Mount Diablo and took a loss on the sale, but “I can make half of it back in one year of tax savings,” he says.
Schneider’s neighborhood in Texas, which has no state income tax, is full of cars with license-plate frames from California dealerships. On a flight from Austin to Los Angeles shortly before Christmas, 11 of the 12 seats in the emergency row were occupied by people who had moved from California to Texas, he says.
Another telling statistic: On the Nevada side of Lake Tahoe, where there is no state income tax, 151 homes sold for more than $1 million in 2013. That was 86 percent higher than the previous year. On the California side, only 67 homes sold for more than $1 million, down 9 percent from 2012, according to Susan Lowe, a broker with Chase International.
[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
When considering the benefits reaped from work sown, is the profit created by you in the workplace- how much money the company you work for makes from your work and pays taxes on- taken into consideration or is it just how much you make/pay on the paycheck?[/quote]
You can take it into consideration if you’d like. It is likely less than your estimation but go ahead.
[quote]Or is it just a forgone conclusion that you will get more than you pay for from the govs.?
[/quote]
Looking at how much the government does, good bad or indifferent, it takes an awful lot of taxes paid before you aren’t getting SOMETHING in return for the dollar. (whether you like that something, want that something, or that something is actually in your best interests is a whole different conversation.)
I think choosing the public sector over the private one is dumb in most scenarios. The richest people are not in the public sector on the whole. That’s not to say some people aren’t doing really well in the public sector, but choosing it over the private one simply because you think public sector employees are all really wealthy is dumb as shit and demonstrably untrue.
Think of this:
(Teacher Compensation: Fact vs. Fiction | NEA all my numbers are from here)
Your kid goes to public school for 12 years, and 38 weeks a year. That is 456 weeks of school. Assume a 5 hour day to be conservative, that is 456x5=2280 days in school, and 2280x5=11,400 hours that they are being instructed by a teacher.
So, take the national starting salary of the teacher, $30377 divide it by a 40 hour work week (which again keeps the calc lower) it is $14.60 an hour. Now lets see what that comes out to in costs for your kid:
11,400.00 hours
-
14.60 an hour
166,400.00 total cost in teachers time for the time your child is in school
This doesn’t include books, heat, electric, computer & internet, custodial, copy/printing/postage, admin, playground, sports, parking lots, café workers, gym equipment, etc
(If you re-do the calc at 6 hours a day, and the salary spread over 1,520 hours (38 weeks @ 40 hours a week) you get to a number closer to 275k, which is much more realistic than above.)
Let me know how long it takes the average household sending 2 or 3 kids to public schools to pay 165k in tax…
After that we’ll look at costs of other things… 
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
Think of this:
(Teacher Compensation: Fact vs. Fiction | NEA all my numbers are from here)
Your kid goes to public school for 12 years, and 38 weeks a year. That is 456 weeks of school. Assume a 5 hour day to be conservative, that is 456x5=2280 days in school, and 2280x5=11,400 hours that they are being instructed by a teacher.
So, take the national starting salary of the teacher, $30377 divide it by a 40 hour work week (which again keeps the calc lower) it is $14.60 an hour. Now lets see what that comes out to in costs for your kid:
11,400.00 hours
-
14.60 an hour
166,400.00 total cost in teachers time for the time your child is in school
This doesn’t include books, heat, electric, computer & internet, custodial, copy/printing/postage, admin, playground, sports, parking lots, cafÃ???Ã??Ã?© workers, gym equipment, etc
(If you re-do the calc at 6 hours a day, and the salary spread over 1,520 hours (38 weeks @ 40 hours a week) you get to a number closer to 275k, which is much more realistic than above.)
Let me know how long it takes the average household sending 2 or 3 kids to public schools to pay 165k in tax…
After that we’ll look at costs of other things… [/quote]
You’re good with understanding this and laying it out for people. I can list all the things government has a hand in in my local area, but I’m not able to lay out all the math. While I’m a small government guy who wishes we would do some things differently (or certainly in a less complicated manner) I realize that the VAST majority of taxpayers are probably getting WAY more out of their taxes than they would ever realize.
Although I am happy a somewhat complicated tax code makes you money beans lol. It’s been a while (probably like 2007) but I dated an accountant for about 6 months. I remember during tax season how busy she was. At some times of the year she didn’t have to work super hard she said, but for some periods she was one of the hardest working (terms of pure time spent working) people I have ever met.*
*Not yet man, but as it gets a bit closer I may ask you for some very general advice on a few things regarding my fiance and her taxes. Nothing complicated, just your .02 on what you’d do in our shoes.
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
Think of this:
(Teacher Compensation: Fact vs. Fiction | NEA all my numbers are from here)
Your kid goes to public school for 12 years, and 38 weeks a year. That is 456 weeks of school. Assume a 5 hour day to be conservative, that is 456x5=2280 days in school, and 2280x5=11,400 hours that they are being instructed by a teacher.
So, take the national starting salary of the teacher, $30377 divide it by a 40 hour work week (which again keeps the calc lower) it is $14.60 an hour. Now lets see what that comes out to in costs for your kid:
11,400.00 hours
-
14.60 an hour
166,400.00 total cost in teachers time for the time your child is in school
This doesn’t include books, heat, electric, computer & internet, custodial, copy/printing/postage, admin, playground, sports, parking lots, café workers, gym equipment, etc
(If you re-do the calc at 6 hours a day, and the salary spread over 1,520 hours (38 weeks @ 40 hours a week) you get to a number closer to 275k, which is much more realistic than above.)
Let me know how long it takes the average household sending 2 or 3 kids to public schools to pay 165k in tax…
After that we’ll look at costs of other things… [/quote]
Divided by number of kids in that class, so approximately 25, or number of students the teacher has per day and that could vary from tens to hundreds. Lets say 25 kids for 6 periods per day.
That changes it a lot. I’d have to think on it a little deeper to consider everybody in the community and the total number of different taxes paid into schools (state income, district school tax percent of sales tax etc.) which would change it a lot more.
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
At present they say there is 1 job for every 3 looking , that probably is not considering those that are working at a job that does not adequately compensate them . So in other words there is a lot of unrest in the job market place .
[/quote]
These are e-numbers pulled from your ass.
It will vary from field to field, and area to area. [/quote]
[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
Think of this:
(http://www.nea.org/home/12661.htm all my numbers are from here)
Your kid goes to public school for 12 years, and 38 weeks a year. That is 456 weeks of school. Assume a 5 hour day to be conservative, that is 456x5=2280 days in school, and 2280x5=11,400 hours that they are being instructed by a teacher.
So, take the national starting salary of the teacher, $30377 divide it by a 40 hour work week (which again keeps the calc lower) it is $14.60 an hour. Now lets see what that comes out to in costs for your kid:
11,400.00 hours
-
14.60 an hour
166,400.00 total cost in teachers time for the time your child is in school
This doesn’t include books, heat, electric, computer & internet, custodial, copy/printing/postage, admin, playground, sports, parking lots, cafÃ?© workers, gym equipment, etc
(If you re-do the calc at 6 hours a day, and the salary spread over 1,520 hours (38 weeks @ 40 hours a week) you get to a number closer to 275k, which is much more realistic than above.)
Let me know how long it takes the average household sending 2 or 3 kids to public schools to pay 165k in tax…
After that we’ll look at costs of other things… [/quote]
Divided by number of kids in that class, so approximately 25, or number of students the teacher has per day and that could vary from tens to hundreds. Lets say 25 kids for 6 periods per day.
That changes it a lot. I’d have to think on it a little deeper to consider everybody in the community and the total number of different taxes paid into schools (state income, district school tax percent of sales tax etc.) which would change it a lot more.
[/quote]
The closest school to where I live is for all intents and purposes sort of a shit hole public school. Now I know some of the people there and they have great people, but facilities wise this place is not good at all. I went to a small rural school in Kansas and I graduated in 2002. The place I grew up in was NOT rich and wealthy. The school I went to though was VASTLY better from a facilities standpoint than this school and my school again wasn’t awesome.
For the most part if anyone on this forum “toured” the school I’m talking about they would think about all the things that need to be upgraded. Actually they would probably say the best thing for this district is to tear down this old school and build a new one. I mean I don’t pay taxes for that school district but if I did I would be somewhat embarrassed by it. Now I know that their budget as a 3A school in Kansas is probably around 4 million.
So a super conservative low tax area’s school budget is around 4 million and the place is basically a shit hole comparatively speaking. At that school they do everything as cheap as possible. The costs at schools that we don’t think about are mind blowing. That school has about a 4 million dollar budget and it has shit facilities. Imagine these schools budgets that ACTUALLY have some nice things you’d want your kids to have. I mean damn.
I would get some more skills?
Seriously, it will give you the kind of job security that can actually stand up to delinquency and even inborn incompetence.