I Wanna Try H.I.T.

Training Bodybuilding
41

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
Dorian Yates did perform less volume than his fellow competitors but he didn’t follow HIT in the Ellington Darden, Mike Mentzer, or Arthur Jones Style at all.

I have always been a huge Dorian fan since I started training and have referred to his book, A Warrior’s Story, and his film, Blood and Guts, several times. So, I actually remember how his training started and evolved. Here it goes:

One month in 1983:
TBT workout to get acclimated to weight training and learn basic exercises.
One set per muscle group for 3 straight sets per exercise

1983 - 1987:
An AB routine performed three times per week
Day A: Quads, hamstrings, calves, triceps, biceps
Day B: Chest, back, shoulders, abs
Warmups and 2 to 3 exercises per muscle group for 3 straight sets

1987 - 1991:
Each muscle group was trained once every five days
Day 1: Chest, arms, abs
Day 2: Quads, hams, calves
Day 3: off
Day 4: Back, shoulders
Day 5: Off
Repeat 5 day cycle
2 to 3 exercises per muscle group with warmups and two straight sets

1992 to 1997
Each muscle group is now trained every 6 to 7 days
Day 1: Chest, biceps, abs
Day 2: Quads, hams, calves
Day 3: Off
Day 4: Shoulders, tris, abs
Day 5: Back
Day 6: off
Repeat cycle; an extra rest day was taken if needed
2 to 5 exercises per muscle group for warmups and one all-out death set!

Clearly, this is very different than what HIT Jedis have done. Dorian was INFLUENCED by HITers but didn’t practice HIT it as prescribed by its creators and promoters. But then again, this is how most advanced, very strong men wind up training anyway. They only have an hour or so to train and as they get stronger, they split up the bodyparts more in the routine, and need more warming up for each exercise. So the actual work sets are decreased as well because 1) they can’t perform as many all-out sets anymore because of their efficiency and intensiveness and 2) there is less time for work sets.

I say look at bodybuilders that are or were similar to you in genetic makeup and structure and look at how they did things. Use what you think could work and make changes as you go. [/quote]

I have an old flex magazine that shows that Yates did up to 9 different exercises with one all out set on some muscle groups. That doesn’t sound like HIT at all.

42

He never did 9 different exercise for a muscle group! The most exercises he did for a muscle group was 5 and that was for upper back/lats. He did two for his lower back: hyperextensions and deadlifts. He might have chosen from a MENU of nine exercises for a muscle group.

43

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
He never did 9 different exercise for a muscle group! The most exercises he did for a muscle group was 5 and that was for upper back/lats. He did two for his lower back: hyperextensions and deadlifts. He might have chosen from a MENU of nine exercises for a muscle group. [/quote]

I’ve never met the guy so I don’t know for sure. Just reporting what I’ve read.

44

[quote]That One Guy wrote:
Growing_Boy wrote:
I’m all for keeping the body confused by changing training protocols but I simply refuse to place the bulk of my aspirations on both HIT or DC. I’ve got jack diddly shit from both. Sure, I you would call it overtraining if you saw me hitting chest but thats what works time and time again. I go as far as considering DC or HIT training protocols only ment to be implemented when injured. Not a fan boys, simply not a fan.

Where was DC mentioned in this thread?[/quote]

It wasn’t, you made a very good point through the use of higher intelligence. DC and HIT both revolve around low work volume.

45

Not that I feel the need to answer to anyone, but if you must know, the reason I will neither post before/after pictures or stats is that I don’t take pictures of myself nor do I really keep track of stats. Then some will say, “How do you tell a difference then?”

I’ll just put it to you like this, I have increased my strength by approximately 20-30% based on the weight I can push compared to before, and I am noticeably more muscular. And I can do intense cardio (when I feel the need) without burning out nearly as fast as before. For me, that’s enough to know it works. If it doesn’t satisfy someone else, so what? But guess what, I’m not working out for anyone else anyway. And no offense to anyone else who posts pics of themselves, but I have no desire to have a bunch of guys looking at my bare chest and mid-section. What would that prove anyway? Absolutely nothing. Because I could tell you I got that way because I did this or that no matter what I actually did.

46
  1. Dorian didn’t train the HIT way, much less the HD way. I covered this in the past.

Yes he did use a lower volume approach than most of his fellow competitors, but he still did more than ‘‘one set to failure’’ per muscle group like advocated by HIT traditionalists.

Dorian would hit 1-2 work sets per exercise, that’s true. BUT he did between 3-6 exercises per bodypart for a total of anywhere from 5 to 12 work sets per muscle group. Not high volume by any means, but not eactly HIT either.

He would also build up to these maximal sets, doing as many as 3-4 progressively heavier warm-up sets. While these were not true work set, they are still a departure from classical HIT.

The original HIT called for whole body workouts (Mentzer later split the body into 2 or even 3 sessions) while Dorian used a 4 ways split for all of his pro career (he did use the 3x whole body approach at the beginning of this training though).

Traditional HIT generally recommended against the lower rep ranges. Most of the original HIT stuff called for sets of 10-15 reps while Dorian often goes down to 6-8 reps (most of the time in fact).

Dorian was a very methodical bodybuilder and read a lot. YES he took a lot from the HIT/HD mentality, but he only took what worked for him, disregarded what didn’t and built a system that was optimal for his own body.

  1. Mentzer actually trained more conventional for most of his competitive career. Much like Dorian he did use a much lower volume approach than most guys at the time (who were into 20-30 sets/muscle workouts) but he wasn’t doing HD back then.

He actually developped HD and HDII once his competitive career was pretty much over.

Funny story, one of my friend moved to California back in the early 80s. And he actually hired Mike to be his trainer.

One day he saw Mike doing his regular HD workout at the gym. Later that day my friend had to run an errant at another gym in town and he actually spotted Mentzer doing something like 8 sets of seated rowing (these were true work sets). My friend fired Mike as his trainer and hired Robbie Robinson.

Mentzer was also one of the first bodybuilders to make extensive use of electromuscular stimulation. While not hard on the CNS (since the electrical signal replaces the CNS) the muscles still do the work, burn energy and some muscle damage is created. So that was an increase in volume right there!

47

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

  1. Dorian didn’t train the HIT way, much less the HD way. I covered this in the past.

Yes he did use a lower volume approach than most of his fellow competitors, but he still did more than ‘‘one set to failure’’ per muscle group like advocated by HIT traditionalists.

[/quote]

Yeah, that’s what I thought too, yet you always have these HIT guys throwing his name around. He even said as much during an interview. He was very adamant that Mentzer never trained him, although he learned some things from him. Every video I saw of him seemed that he did something a little different. I noticed that, when performing some exercises, he would do a quick positive and then a slower negative.

48

Because of my job (multiple deadlines and such), sometimes I’m left with precious little time on a scheduled training day. In that case, I’ll do a brief yet brutal HIT style workout, being sure to employ one or more intensity techniques. Afterwards, I’m usually pleasantly surprised by the pump and complete exhaustion I feel from these rare sessions, and next day have some nice DOMS.

49

[quote]Chris Austere wrote:
Not that I feel the need to answer to anyone, but if you must know, the reason I will neither post before/after pictures or stats is that I don’t take pictures of myself nor do I really keep track of stats. Then some will say, “How do you tell a difference then?”

I’ll just put it to you like this, I have increased my strength by approximately 20-30% based on the weight I can push compared to before, and I am noticeably more muscular. And I can do intense cardio (when I feel the need) without burning out nearly as fast as before. For me, that’s enough to know it works. If it doesn’t satisfy someone else, so what? But guess what, I’m not working out for anyone else anyway. And no offense to anyone else who posts pics of themselves, but I have no desire to have a bunch of guys looking at my bare chest and mid-section. What would that prove anyway? Absolutely nothing. Because I could tell you I got that way because I did this or that no matter what I actually did. [/quote]

Please. People who are truly proud of their bodybuilding progress are simply not that shy about it.

I have asked this question of HIT-ites for several years and they NEVER post pictures of themselves yet they all claim they are making the best progress on Earth.

50

[quote]Growing_Boy wrote:
That One Guy wrote:
Growing_Boy wrote:
I’m all for keeping the body confused by changing training protocols but I simply refuse to place the bulk of my aspirations on both HIT or DC. I’ve got jack diddly shit from both. Sure, I you would call it overtraining if you saw me hitting chest but thats what works time and time again. I go as far as considering DC or HIT training protocols only ment to be implemented when injured. Not a fan boys, simply not a fan.

Where was DC mentioned in this thread?

It wasn’t, you made a very good point through the use of higher intelligence. DC and HIT both revolve around low work volume. [/quote]

Different poster said that HIT and DC is very different. Maybe you should quote him instead.

51

I think Mentzer was very smart in his ‘most bodybuilders are overtrained’ commentaries, but there is still a minimum of work required to properly stimulate some form of adaptation.

It does make sense that “you can train hard, or you can train long, but you can’t do both”, but again, I think the fact that something as simple as a second work set of an exercise will recruit a different pattern of fibers than the first is evidence enough that only doing one work set still leaves muscle unworked.

As a fan I gotta say that Mike truly had one of the best physiques ever to grace the Olympis stage. I’d be damn happy to achieve his size, density, and propertions.

S

52

[quote]Chris Austere wrote:
Not that I feel the need to answer to anyone, but if you must know, the reason I will neither post before/after pictures or stats is that I don’t take pictures of myself nor do I really keep track of stats. Then some will say, “How do you tell a difference then?”

I’ll just put it to you like this, I have increased my strength by approximately 20-30% based on the weight I can push compared to before, and I am noticeably more muscular. And I can do intense cardio (when I feel the need) without burning out nearly as fast as before. For me, that’s enough to know it works. If it doesn’t satisfy someone else, so what? But guess what, I’m not working out for anyone else anyway. And no offense to anyone else who posts pics of themselves, but I have no desire to have a bunch of guys looking at my bare chest and mid-section. What would that prove anyway? Absolutely nothing. Because I could tell you I got that way because I did this or that no matter what I actually did. [/quote]

Nice try, but it’s a total cop-out. In a sport where EVERYTHING YOU DO is judged by how you look and the weights you use, you can’t even type a brief description of the difference in weights you’re using? I bet.

Probably newb gains anyway.

53

Hi everyone I didnt know this was going to start such a huge debate but thank you all for the advice.
Professor X-I will try to post pictures if I can get a friend to let me borrow a camera because I do not have one or a computer at my home. But I will try and see what I can do.

Age-17
Height-5 foot 7 with shoes on.
Weight-185 lbs(last check about two weeks ago)
Waist-35 to 36 I would guess by my pants size(I can see all 6 abs to a extent and I am holding lots and most weight around my love handle things)
Arm-Right at 15(cold)
Calves-16(cold)
And these are all I really know as I am school right now and cant exactly strip.

Iam not exactly going to use HIT down to the T as Mentzer explains it. Maybe I should not have called it HIT but, let me give yall a example.

Monday-Chest and Arms
Incline Bench Press:8-12 reps
Flat DB Press:8-12 reps
Pec Dec:10-15 reps
Barbell Curl:5-8 reps
Tricep Pressdown-8-12 reps

Take each exercise to positive failure for one set.Then Wednesday is legs I will chose to exercises for quads, 2 for hams and 1 for calves. And so on.

54

[quote]im_the_truth_ wrote:
Hi everyone I didnt know this was going to start such a huge debate but thank you all for the advice.
Professor X-I will try to post pictures if I can get a friend to let me borrow a camera because I do not have one or a computer at my home. But I will try and see what I can do.

Age-17
Height-5 foot 7 with shoes on.
Weight-185 lbs(last check about two weeks ago)
Waist-35 to 36 I would guess by my pants size(I can see all 6 abs to a extent and I am holding lots and most weight around my love handle things)
Arm-Right at 15(cold)
Calves-16(cold)
And these are all I really know as I am school right now and cant exactly strip.

Iam not exactly going to use HIT down to the T as Mentzer explains it. Maybe I should not have called it HIT but, let me give yall a example.

Monday-Chest and Arms
Incline Bench Press:8-12 reps
Flat DB Press:8-12 reps
Pec Dec:10-15 reps
Barbell Curl:5-8 reps
Tricep Pressdown-8-12 reps

Take each exercise to positive failure for one set.Then Wednesday is legs I will chose to exercises for quads, 2 for hams and 1 for calves. And so on. [/quote]

Wait…and you have a COMPETITION coming up?

I keep thinking I woke up on Earth but Bizarro-world is so damn confusing!

55

Professor X- Yes I do in alittle under 4 months I have 13 and half weeks left till the day

56

[quote]Professor X wrote:
im_the_truth_ wrote:
Hi everyone I didnt know this was going to start such a huge debate but thank you all for the advice.
Professor X-I will try to post pictures if I can get a friend to let me borrow a camera because I do not have one or a computer at my home. But I will try and see what I can do.

Age-17
Height-5 foot 7 with shoes on.
Weight-185 lbs(last check about two weeks ago)
Waist-35 to 36 I would guess by my pants size(I can see all 6 abs to a extent and I am holding lots and most weight around my love handle things)
Arm-Right at 15(cold)
Calves-16(cold)
And these are all I really know as I am school right now and cant exactly strip.

Iam not exactly going to use HIT down to the T as Mentzer explains it. Maybe I should not have called it HIT but, let me give yall a example.

Monday-Chest and Arms
Incline Bench Press:8-12 reps
Flat DB Press:8-12 reps
Pec Dec:10-15 reps
Barbell Curl:5-8 reps
Tricep Pressdown-8-12 reps

Take each exercise to positive failure for one set.Then Wednesday is legs I will chose to exercises for quads, 2 for hams and 1 for calves. And so on.

Wait…and you have a COMPETITION coming up?

I keep thinking I woke up on Earth but Bizarro-world is so damn confusing![/quote]

Truth,

I’m saying the following in sincerity. You are very young; I think you should hold out on competing and focus on gaining more overall muscle mass and reducing your bodyfat. I don’t like sound harsh, but your stats are not good, even for a 17 year old who wishes to compete.

At 5’7" and 185#, with a 36-inch waist, I think it’s safe to say that you’re overly fat; you didn’t your bodyfat percentage.

Actually, I’m not going to go further because I have to go…

You’re not ready! Very few men are capable of competing in their teens and early 20s (i.e.: Shawn Ray). Give it some time. Or maybe even a lot of time for the genetically ordinary!

57

Bricknyce- Well when it comes down to my waist I am just judging off the pants I wear they are a size 36 but are falling off of me like if I dont wear a belt and I take about 5 steps they are around my knees lol. I am not hugely fat by any means. I dont know what my BF% is but I m not a complete fat ass or "Overly Fat
" as you say.

58

So just so I’m clear, you have a competition coming up and you:

Don’t know your BF% (somewhere between 12 and 20 you claim)
Don’t know a majority of your measurements
Don’t seem to have your program dialed in (hence this thread)
Wanna compete in BB but also want to be a strongman (taken from profile)

Have 15" arms

Now I’m not an expert in the slightest, but does it seem that you’re not taking it all that seriously? I mean if I ever was going to take the plunge be it BB or PL, I’d try to have the simpler stuff that I do have a grasp on dialed in. Then when someone asks me a question to gain information so they can give me better advice, I’d be johnny on the spot with the response. It just seems to me that your pretty much half assing it at best.

Good luck though man, I guess.

59

I am not sure what my measurments are I have not measured in months and thats all I can remember and that cold arm by my side. And I just got my teacher to measure my waist and when I just stand relaxed not flexing my abs or anything I have 34 inch waist. And I just never gotten my measurments before because I was just told to always go by the mirror and thats what I have done. But to figure it out I will measure everything tonight and let every one know tomorrow.

Also yes being a strongman is my main goal and dream but, I like bodybuilding and would like to compete I have not competed in alittle over 3 years and would like to just for the fun of it.

60

honestly why on earth do you want to compete? what good is it possibly going to do? Do you really believe you will win the show?

Train and eat hard for another 5 years and compete when you are a tank.