[quote]OldGoat wrote:
joe-
You could always try hooking through one of the outer holes on the plates you use. They will hang lower, but it will give you the chain you need.[/quote]
I’m going to try that. The lower it hangs the harder it is to control (insert joke here) but at this point I think I need to try it.
[quote]Scotto wrote:
Joe,
You’re gym seems pretty flush with nice equipment, maybe lobby for a couple of hundo plates for your dips and deads. Anyway great work just wrestling that many plates onto the dip belt.[/quote]
My gym is nice but it is not heavy weight friendly. It is very much orriented towards the curls for the girls crowd.
Wave 2-Cycle 4-Week 2_day 2
Deads
3x255
3x290
5x325
1x365
1x385
GM’s
3x10x90
Alt DB Curls
8x35
8x40
5x45
As you will soon see the rounded back is still here on the singles. I’m still playing with things but so far I haven’t had a lot of luck fixing. Nothing to do i guess but keep going. I’m going to add back in the BBB deads at the end slowly or maybe some mid-shin rack pulls.
1x365
1x385
Been analysing your DLs Joe. I think its all a matter of timing. If you pause the 2nd vid at 56 seconds you can see that your legs are almost completely straight before your back has extended at all, and from then on its all lower back to get you upright. I don’t think its anything to do with your start position, that seems good, or a flexibilty issue. Unfortunately I don’t have any useful teaching points to help you but you need to try and do these movements simaltaneously. If you can crack that your sorted!
Joe - did you see MM’s advice to kimba on fixing the lower back rounding?
if I recall correctly it was rack pulls from just below the kneecap focusing on the lower back arch and pushing thru with the hips. Then when a reasonably high weight is reach satisfactorily, lower the bar.
You may need to setup aerobics stands to get the right heights, or set the loaded bar on other plates for a rise.
Joe, especially on the 385 video, it looks to me like your back is rounded right from the start of the setup and then you pick up the weight rather than pull it back. I think your ass needs to get down lower from the start with an emphasis on lower back arch right from the get-go. I know if I don’t really focus on the set up when the weight gets heavier, I get the same rounding.
Edit: I just saw Brett’s comment, so I guess we disagree a bit. I am certainly no DL expert, however.
[quote]jjackkrash wrote:
Joe, especially on the 385 video, it looks to me like your back is rounded right from the start of the setup and then you pick up the weight rather than pull it back. I think your ass needs to get down lower from the start with an emphasis on lower back arch right from the get-go. I know if I don’t really focus on the set up when the weight gets heavier, I get the same rounding.
Edit: I just saw Brett’s comment, so I guess we disagree a bit. I am certainly no DL expert, however. [/quote]
You are right about my hips coming up fast. My main issue is how do i keep them from doing it if it doesn’t feel like they are during the lift?
I also do think my back was rounded on the 385 for the start. I guess all I can do is keep trying.
Jack, I think Joe, like me, despite trying just can’t do a lower back arch when deadlifting. If you notice at the start his head is up which for most people would flatten their back and put their spine in the correct start position but for him it doesn’t. Maybe the best Joe can aim for is to maintain as flat a back as possible throughout. I’m sure good morning’n up the weight with straight legs is far more likely to cause a lower back injury than having a rounded thoracic spine.
DISCLAIMER: I am certainly no expert either.
[quote]soldog wrote:
Joe - did you see MM’s advice to kimba on fixing the lower back rounding?
if I recall correctly it was rack pulls from just below the kneecap focusing on the lower back arch and pushing thru with the hips. Then when a reasonably high weight is reach satisfactorily, lower the bar.
You may need to setup aerobics stands to get the right heights, or set the loaded bar on other plates for a rise.[/quote]
Thanks George, I’m going to ask Meat about it and I’m going to try that as well.
[quote]JoeGood wrote:
[quote]soldog wrote:
Joe - did you see MM’s advice to kimba on fixing the lower back rounding?
if I recall correctly it was rack pulls from just below the kneecap focusing on the lower back arch and pushing thru with the hips. Then when a reasonably high weight is reach satisfactorily, lower the bar.
You may need to setup aerobics stands to get the right heights, or set the loaded bar on other plates for a rise.[/quote]
Thanks George, I’m going to ask Meat about it and I’m going to try that as well.[/quote]
I just went back and looked and it was on kimba’s thread but the advice was regarding sumo style. Seems like it would carry over to conventional as well.
[quote]JoeGood wrote:
You are right about my hips coming up fast. My main issue is how do i keep them from doing it if it doesn’t feel like they are during the lift?
[/quote]
Have someone hit you hard with a sledgehammer each time your hips rise first. Eventually, you’ll get the message and correct your form.
In all seriousness, many conventional pullers (including me) have this problem. Especially during max effort pulls. I think it was O who once said that before she initiates the pull she arches her back as hard as she can. I try to do this and also visualize pushing my heels through the floor.
I know it’s been discussed before but refresh my memory: Have you ever tried pulling sumo?
[quote]kpsnap wrote:
[quote]JoeGood wrote:
You are right about my hips coming up fast. My main issue is how do i keep them from doing it if it doesn’t feel like they are during the lift?
[/quote]
Have someone hit you hard with a sledgehammer each time your hips rise first. Eventually, you’ll get the message and correct your form.
In all seriousness, many conventional pullers (including me) have this problem. Especially during max effort pulls. I think it was O who once said that before she initiates the pull she arches her back as hard as she can. I try to do this and also visualize pushing my heels through the floor.
I know it’s been discussed before but refresh my memory: Have you ever tried pulling sumo?[/quote]
I have tried sumo but it felt odd. I think that had to do with my having kind of long legs and really short arms. Maybe if I pulled sumo after conventional I could ease into it. Or maybe I just suck.
Joe, I am going to start up meat’s suggestions of rack pulls going progressively lower only when I can successfully get my legs and glutes working the lift instead of my back. I’ll video so that you can see if it works on me.
My back was feeling a bit used after my deads on Sunday…finally feels better today. But that is not what I’m going for, so I do plan to fix it.
[quote]JoeGood wrote:
[quote]kpsnap wrote:
[quote]JoeGood wrote:
You are right about my hips coming up fast. My main issue is how do i keep them from doing it if it doesn’t feel like they are during the lift?
[/quote]
Have someone hit you hard with a sledgehammer each time your hips rise first. Eventually, you’ll get the message and correct your form.
In all seriousness, many conventional pullers (including me) have this problem. Especially during max effort pulls. I think it was O who once said that before she initiates the pull she arches her back as hard as she can. I try to do this and also visualize pushing my heels through the floor.
I know it’s been discussed before but refresh my memory: Have you ever tried pulling sumo?[/quote]
I’m pretty sure pulling sumo will make you gay.
I have tried sumo but it felt odd. I think that had to do with my having kind of long legs and really short arms. Maybe if I pulled sumo after conventional I could ease into it. Or maybe I just suck.[/quote]
[quote]FarmerBrett wrote:
Been analysing your DLs Joe. I think its all a matter of timing. If you pause the 2nd vid at 56 seconds you can see that your legs are almost completely straight before your back has extended at all, and from then on its all lower back to get you upright. I don’t think its anything to do with your start position, that seems good, or a flexibilty issue. Unfortunately I don’t have any useful teaching points to help you but you need to try and do these movements simaltaneously. If you can crack that your sorted![/quote]
Just watched the video’s and thought I would add my 2 cents.
I agree about the stiff-legging it, but disagree about it being a good starting position. Your back seems to be rounded before you even put any tension on the bar. It looks like you would have to drop down really low to be able to achieve a flat back, which is poor leverage for a deadlift. Just from what I can see it seems like you have short arms for a conventional deadlift.
It does also look like you need to work on your flexibility/mobility some which would help get into a better starting position.
Have you tried sumo pulling much? You may be able to get into a much better starting position, and if you were able to start the pull WITHOUT leaning far back like you see guys do in suits, you could still get a good amount of power off the floor.
Take that advice as you will, because I’m by no means an expert or anything yet. 
Edit: First time in your journal… just read some more posting and it seems like you already know you have short arms. I train with meat and he has little t-rex arms.
[quote]JoeGood wrote:
I have tried sumo but it felt odd. I think that had to do with my having kind of long legs and really short arms. Maybe if I pulled sumo after conventional I could ease into it. Or maybe I just suck.[/quote]
I’m sure it felt odd since in the back of your mind you want it to feel more comfortable like a conventional deadlift, because that is what you are used to, so that is what you will compare everything else to.
I think having shorter arms(with long legs) would benefit from sumo more right? You’re decreasing the range your arms have to travel to the bar, so you don’t have to bend down as far, increasing chances of rounding the back. Plus, it seems like a lot of sumo pullers can get away with stiff-legging than conventional can. Once your legs pop that bar off the floor your back should still be in a good position to pull.
Here is a good site on it: http://www.elitefts.com/documents/sumo_deadlift.htm
In the third picture down you kinda see what im talking about. Since you can arch your back so well in a sumo deadlift, it’s much easier to keep it straight even while pulling like that.
If anyone disagrees with me please chime in on why… I’m still learning a lot and learn more when people have counters to my thoughts. 
I have, after a night of doing all the damn reading in the world, developed a course of action I hopw will lead to getting this fixed.
From now on Deadlift day will be that, just deads. I will do far more light weight warm up than I have been doing and arching my damn back until it snaps. I will then attempt to do so on my working sets.
After my working sets are done I’m going to really attempt to learn sumo, which will lead to many hilarious videos being posted. I’m also going to do rack pulls below the knee as ell somewhere in the damn routine.
Its kind of annoying having to spend so much time learning something other people just seemed to be able to do but thats life I guess.
[quote]JoeGood wrote:
Its kind of annoying having to spend so much time learning something other people just seemed to be able to do but thats life I guess.[/quote]
I’ve been rehabing squats for a year. I hear you. It will only make you a better lifter.
Just wanted to chime in and say that I’ve been forcing myself to learn sumo in order to have a stronger conventional pull and just felt like it clicked [at all] for the first time on Monday. It is a very technical lift. Just not intuitive to me. I’ve thrown my share of snits out of frustration during the learning process and lost my balance more times than I can count.
And contrary to what Ms. O says, I have not found myself any more attracted to women during this little experiment. I’m still firmly heterosexual.
[quote]kpsnap wrote:
Just wanted to chime in and say that I’ve been forcing myself to learn sumo in order to have a stronger conventional pull and just felt like it clicked [at all] for the first time on Monday. It is a very technical lift. Just not intuitive to me. I’ve thrown my share of snits out of frustration during the learning process and lost my balance more times than I can count.
And contrary to what Ms. O says, I have not found myself any more attracted to women during this little experiment. I’m still firmly heterosexual.[/quote]
Good, You can tell me what I’m doing wrong.