I Deleted the Amazing New Supplement Thread--TC

Training Bodybuilding
241

[quote]countingbeans wrote:
kribrg wrote:
countingbeans wrote:
Tell daddie I said hi. I stopped reading after he called me a cocksucker.

Thank you for proving him wrong.

Hey man, I’m not posting pictures of other people shitting on them without my info public.

I’m not making racist screen names.

I’m not trolling “your” site.

I asked you honest questions, you gave me honest answers, and I dropped it. We aren’t going to agree, so it is pointless.

I just don’t approach training the same way you do. Doesn’t mean I’m right and your wrong. Certainly doesn’t make you right and me wrong either. The only wrong one is the one not reaching their goals, and I’m getting to mine just fine, as I’m sure you are too.

Honestly good luck with reaching your goals. I also want to wish all your friends who are posting pictures of people here, over there, to tear them down, when they have zero information public, the best too.

I’m sure you guys help people everyday.

Has he put up my pictures yet? I so what to be an interwebz celebrity.[/quote]

They are posting pictures of people from this site over there?

These guys must still be in high school.

242

[quote]kribrg wrote:
Professor X wrote:

Most people on the planet will never compete. I may never compete even though I would like to get under 10% body fat. Why? Because I do just fine in life looking the way I do right now and the ONLY people who seem to have a problem with my development…are little guys like you who will never put their picture up for criticism.

If not having sub-10% body fat allows you to surpass all of these “limits”, then why pray tell are there “limits”?

If walking around at a very comfortable “12%” means I get to be way bigger than my “Butt Ceiling”, then maybe I should be comfortable with “12%”.

I do believe we are still waiting on ONE of you to put a picture up to show us what being so highly evolved and intelligent has allowed you to create in the gym.

It is funny how none of you seem to be proud enough to show us. I mean, that’s down right strange.

I don’t put my pic up because it has nothing to do with whether, as a natural, people can surpass the limits of lbm. That is just you 1) diverting from the point (which you can’t dis-prove 2) perpetuating your status on this site as the big guy in a tank top[/quote]

Uhm, no, it is me trying to see what all of this attention to scientific studies (while avoiding real world experience) has actually built for you or anyone else who rushed onto this site from the other one.

I know I sure as hell won’t be going up to the least developed guy in the gym to get advice from on training. The same applies here. If all of the people coming here to tell us how LIMITED we are haven’t built themselves up at all, then their opinion becomes a joke…much like you all have come across for the last several pages.

You guys are arguing with doctors and Phd’s who are more developed than you yet you seem to think you have us all beat in terms of intellect.

I am simply trying to see what this level of superiority has built for you.

You are on a website that literally has “relentless pursuit of muscle” in the head title…yet you don’t have muscle? What good is your opinion here? I went to school so it isn’t like you are schooling me on any new info and your lack of progress is very telling.

243

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Tillerman wrote:
MODOK wrote:

You are relating having 18" or 19" arms to winning the Gold in the Olympics?

I mean, are there just zero large weight lifters where you live?

I see big lifters all day long at the gym. They are a tad more plentiful than there are “Usain Bolts”.[/quote]

Just responding to your broad claim about biological limits.

As for the analogy – my understanding is that professional bodybuilders work as hard at their sport (set aside the debate on whether it is a sport) as Olympic athletes. Professional bodybuilders too seek fame and monetary rewards. Professional bodybuilding tends to select for people genetically predisposed to carrying a lot of muscle in a lean state. And steroid use is at least as prevalent in the body-building industry as it is among Olympic athletes.

So while the analogy is subject to limitation, it holds in this regard: someone who claims to put on more muscle than any professional bodybuilder over the last several decades should not be shocked to have some claims subject to scrutiny.

244

[quote]vinigger123 wrote:
30% body fat?

You should definitely enter a natural bodybuilding contest, man. You will beat them all. I mean, after all, your chests, at this point, are already bigger than most females.[/quote]

Rofl, you created a profile solely for going to my training log, saving my image, and posting in this thread with the most assanine comment attached? I am flattered.

First of all, I am not a bodybuilder, nor do I claim to be one, nor are those remotely my goals. If you think I have 30%, or even 20% BF, you are smoking crack.

I used to be a rock solid 199, I have been bulking for 9 months and plan to continue to 260. My numbers are solid, I have posted pics and stats, there is no lie about who I am or what my goals are, if you want to laugh, then laugh, But I can promise you this, I will get bigger and stronger following the methods I have learned from fellow members on this site and at elite FTS than you ever will follow that cock sucker aragon’s chocolate milk nutrition plan.

Again, I powerlift, I dont bodybuild, but if you wanna keep it up, come back next year when I will be around a lean 250.

245

[quote]Aggro wrote:
dankid wrote:
I think its fine that TC is censoring stuff. Its his site, and his business, and we get free articles and a place to discuss things because they are making money. If the money stops, the site stops. And then i’d probably have to go back to bodybuilding.com which would just suck.

But I found it funny when they first showed the I, bodybuilder thing. Everyone was going crazy, like this was going to be the “holy grail” of bodybuilding. Now people are going around the site and suggesting that the reason they haven’t made gains is because they dont have their Peri-workout nutrition down.

It is stupid to criticeze something before it comes out though. T-Nation is making big claims with the I, bodybuilder program, and I hope the before and after pictures of CT and others back them up.

But as I said in a previous post (that got deleted by mods), From the video of I, bodybuilder, it doesn’t look like they developed some magical new training system. It looks like a program that CT would normally use, usign “high threshold hypertrophy” and a new supplement.

That was CT’s original role in all of this. He was developing a free muscle building program (was supposed to be released around March I believe) and then him and Tim got together and made it more. Yes there is marketing, yes there is hype, yes it’s tied to Anaconda, but the program will still be free just like CT promised towards the end of last year.

CT put his reputation on the line in regards to what he saw/achieved. Which he said he wouldn’t have believed otherwise. At worst we get a free program, at best we get that as well as a new supplement that preforms half of what is claimed. Will it be the be all end all? Probably not. Will it help with your training? Hopefully so.

Oh and maybe I’m blind, or dumb or intellectually “inferior” (I can use quotes though) but where is this proof that they seem to tout. I see some data presented as facts tied tenuously together, and a whole bunch of nobodies incorporating the big lie technique. So I’m not exactly sure what needs to be disproved.[/quote]

Its clear from the threads discussing the I,BB article and TC’s follow-up Damage Control (his Think, Don’t Smoke article) that when people claim to have fallen well short of the purported gains the T-Nation boosters will tell them that they didn’t train with adequate intensity or that they couldn’t train with adequate intensity because they didn’t follow the per-workout nutrition protocol.

246

[quote]Tillerman wrote:
So while the analogy is subject to limitation, it holds in this regard: someone who claims to put on more muscle than any professional bodybuilder over the last several decades should not be shocked to have some claims subject to scrutiny. [/quote]

Who is this person you are referring to that – according to you – claims to have put on more muscle than any professional bodybuilder over the last several decades?

Or are you referring to something imaginary, with no one that you can think of? If so, why?

247

[quote]Professor X wrote:
kribrg wrote:
Professor X wrote:

Most people on the planet will never compete. I may never compete even though I would like to get under 10% body fat. Why? Because I do just fine in life looking the way I do right now and the ONLY people who seem to have a problem with my development…are little guys like you who will never put their picture up for criticism.

If not having sub-10% body fat allows you to surpass all of these “limits”, then why pray tell are there “limits”?

If walking around at a very comfortable “12%” means I get to be way bigger than my “Butt Ceiling”, then maybe I should be comfortable with “12%”.

I do believe we are still waiting on ONE of you to put a picture up to show us what being so highly evolved and intelligent has allowed you to create in the gym.

It is funny how none of you seem to be proud enough to show us. I mean, that’s down right strange.

I don’t put my pic up because it has nothing to do with whether, as a natural, people can surpass the limits of lbm. That is just you 1) diverting from the point (which you can’t dis-prove 2) perpetuating your status on this site as the big guy in a tank top

Uhm, no, it is me trying to see what all of this attention to scientific studies (while avoiding real world experience) has actually built for you or anyone else who rushed onto this site from the other one.
[/quote]

Who here is “avoiding real world experience”? One irrelevant distraction after the next.

Also, in what world do scientific studies conducted such that they exist outside of the real world?

248

[quote]Tillerman wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Tillerman wrote:
MODOK wrote:

You are relating having 18" or 19" arms to winning the Gold in the Olympics?

I mean, are there just zero large weight lifters where you live?

I see big lifters all day long at the gym. They are a tad more plentiful than there are “Usain Bolts”.

Just responding to your broad claim about biological limits. [/quote]

My broad claim? What claim was that? That we do not have enough data to try to put a specific limit on what humans can achieve in terms of muscle growth? This is a “broad claim”? The only people making CLAIMS here are you and the guys you brought with you.

Uhm, Kai Green just gained like 60-70lbs of what looks to be lean mass in about two years. Who the fuck here is making claims like that? I’ve been lifting for over a decade to reach the size I am now so what are you talking about? CT has been bigger…which means muscle memory along with his training knowledge and length of time training had much to do with results he saw. Guys like you…you know, the ones who turn their nose up if they see someone bigger than them at the gym…have nothing to fear as far as coming close to that.

I doubt your gains up to this point would impress too many people at all…but of course, you posting a picture could clear that right up.

249

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
the kid in question should get only chocolate milk as the only nutrition offered when quite hungry post training.

[/quote]

I am sorry but this claim still blows my fucking mind, is anyone else at a loss for words when this keeps coming up?

His kids will be the shittiest athletes on earth.

250

Seeing as how the debate here has dropped to about 3rd grade level, I’m out. Any jokers debating BODYBUILDING and gains made who are afraid to post their own stats should never be taken seriously. We simply got overrun by a bunch of guys who read an article and now think they are smarter than everyone growing faster than them. Congrats, guys. You made it. I’m sure life will be rosy from here on out.

251

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
Who is this person you are referring to that – according to you – claims to have put on more muscle than any professional bodybuilder over the last several decades?

Or are you referring to something imaginary, with no one that you can think of? If so, why?
[/quote]

I refer you to Alan Argon’s article. If I am mischaracterizing the claims made there regarding the advertising for I, Bodybuilder, then I apologize.

252

[quote]Professor X wrote:

These guys must still be in high school.
[/quote]

I can’t imagine they are grown adults, no. At least not the kind that move out of mommies basement.

I stopped reading that site though, I can only handle the word “bro” typed so many times before I chew on a 9mm.

253

To quote the greeat powerlifter Matt Rhodes, “Any man under 200 lbs is a woman”

254

[quote]John Blackthorne wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
flyingXknee wrote:
K2000 wrote:
Bottom line, if the “I, BODYBUILDER” program is bunk, it’s going to be obvious, and if it works it will be obvious. I have to believe that in this case, no publicity is bad publicity, if it works. .

this is def what this thread should be about not focusing on attacking other tnation readers

i am willing to bet though that 90% of people who try I, BODYBUILDER wont gain 10 lbs of muscle in 10 weeks and when they speak up they will be called pussies

If everything is done the way it is supposed to, NOT gaining 10lbs in 8 weeks would be a rare “feat”. The least gains we had a guy have in 8 weeks is 10lbs, and this guy is over 50 and has been lifting for over 30 years… and he is a doctor with a very complex schedule.

That is why the program is taking some time to be published: We are filming every single workout of every single phase. Not make-believe workouts, but real ones with the level of intensity, effort and workout tempo required.

EXERCISE, SETS, REPS AND METHODS ARE NOT THE MAIN INGREDIENT IN SUCCESS…

HOW you execute the workout is the real key and this is why we have to film everything so that people will know how to train for the program.

One thing I came to realize when I went to train with Tate and his gang, and something I had forgotten, is how FEW people (even those who call themselves hardcore) train hard enough to grow optimally.

Anyway, we have two guys (Sebastien and Keven) doing the workouts… there are 5 phases within the program, each of which has 4-5 workouts. So that is 20-25 workouts to film. Keven was preparing for a contest so we could not ask him to train 3 times a day to get everything done in a week!

So, the execution of training program itself is more important than the supplement protocol?
[/quote]

For optimal results… to paraphrase Dorian Yates: “Training is 100%, nutrition is 100%, recovery is 100%, supplement is 100%”

Or as I like to say: The most important leg of a three legged stool is the missing one… in other words the element is which you are deficient will be the one holding you back.

255

Part of the article by Mr Aragon:

…except one moderator, who Iâ??ll quote as saying, â??I refuse to back up my claims, so sue meâ??..

If I recall correctly it was me who made this comment. WOW so apparently I am a moderator.

256

Is the program coming out next week?

257

[quote]DH wrote:
True, X. But it also leads to the core issue. Thib may well have gained the same if he would have eaten for it and done his new program regardless of any supps (Anaconda).
[/quote]

Well I did try the program with the full supplement protocol, with all the supplements in half the quantity, without some of the elements of the protocol and without any supplements and I can honestly say that I had much better gains with the full program.

BTW, the full program is:

30 minutes prior = 2 scoops Workout Fuel, 1-2 Finibars
15-20 minutes prior = 2 scoops Surge Recovery
Before workout = 1 serving Anaconda
Mid-workout = 1 serving Anaconda, 1 Finibar
30 minutes post-workout = 1 serving MAG-10 protein
60 minutes post-workout = 1 serving MAG-10 protein

With half of the protocol (1 scoop of Workout fuel instead of 2 and 1 scoop of Surge Recovery instead of 2, only 1 Finibar) I still had good progress, but strength didn’t go up as fast.

Without Surge Workout fuel (keeping the protocol complete besides the WF) my strength progress was much slower
Without Surge Recovery (keeping the rest of the protocol complete) my strength gains were good but my bodyweight didn’t go up as fast
Without the protocol I stagnated and started to have joint pains.

258

[quote]Professor X wrote:
My broad claim? What claim was that? That we do not have enough data to try to put a specific limit on what humans can achieve in terms of muscle growth? This is a “broad claim”? The only people making CLAIMS here are you and the guys you brought with you. [/quote]

I thought you claimed we could not set limits on biological entities. That’s pretty broad. As for data about what people can achieve in terms of muscle growth – we may not have enough data to say what is possible or impossible, but we do have enough data to say what is improbable and warrants scrutiny. See Casey Butt’s work.

I do not turn my nose up at anyone in the gym. You need not assume anything like that to disagree with me.

Is Kai Green’s situation analogous to CT’s? Did he gain 60-70 pounds of muscle after years of training and proper diet? How much fat did he gain during that two-year period? And doesn’t CT claim to have gained 30-40 pounds in a matter of weeks?

I am not a bodybuilder. My picture is not relevant.

259

[quote]John Blackthorne wrote:
Its clear from the threads discussing the I,BB article and TC’s follow-up Damage Control (his Think, Don’t Smoke article) that when people claim to have fallen well short of the purported gains the T-Nation boosters will tell them that they didn’t train with adequate intensity or that they couldn’t train with adequate intensity because they didn’t follow the per-workout nutrition protocol. [/quote]

And he’ll be right. You see people bashing a supplement quite regularly when they cut the dose in half to make it last longer. I’ve done it myself. I didn’t see shit from Surge Recovery, then towards the end of the jug I started using the dose recommended. Which in turn made me see a better benefit from it.

Now I’m no scientist and a majority of my supplement purchases are based on how I feel OFF of them rather than on. Hell you have people bashing I,Bodybuilder and Anaconda and it’s not even out yet.

It’s also been said before that a majority of people (probably even myself) don’t have the intensity that they should. At the end of the day is that Biotest’s fault? People would claim it is when they do fail. Is that fair? Are you (and your cohorts) the type of people who walk in to someone’s house, piss on the floor, then demand a cooked dinner? Because that’s essentially what it seems like.

260

Look Casey, this was not to disparage you. I used the term “comes across” rather than “is”. I also said I didn’t know you “gentlemen” well enough to criticize beyond that. So put things in perspective.

Second, I’m sure you’re bright enough not to “strawman” me like this. My point is, there is some serious genetic variance in the human race. And I happen to know two individuals who couldn’t be doing more to screw themselves as far as muscle/fat raio.

I think that point was obvious to any reader. Although I’m sure you’re a bit miffed so you reacted with more emotion and less reason. I understand that. Lets just keep perspective.

What if these two were to start to train seriously? That was the trough I was taking the horse to get a drink from…

DH

And I’ll correct any misunderstanding that may also arise. I think you carry a fine physique that is obviously gained from time under iron. Lyle on the other hand doesn’t. Just to clarify.

[quote]Casey Butt wrote:
“Casey Butt comes across dogmatic and myopic. I hit his site once and quickly left. His table, while decent, is far from the full story. I have two uncles who are already at the top of his charts and neither of them lift. Infact they are both alcoholics. And the biggest/strongest one hardly eats any meat. He lives on raw vegetables (seriously, the guy eat onions and radishes like others eat apples) and walks everywhere (thank God he doesn’t drive drunk at least.)”

Perhaps Park, Goodin, Cordova and the boys should have just quit lifting and become drunks? ;D

I must thank you for that quote. I’ve been smiling for half an hour. [/quote]